National Forum

Monaghan V Kerry

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Replying To Daith:  "Kildare were dreadful last weekend and Monaghan only barely got over the line despite the bad weather favouring a scrappy side like them.

The super 8s have 3 really poor sides in it. These sides will be shown up badly this weekend."
Good man Daith. An antacid might help.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 17/07/2018 22:07:56    2123323

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I agree when you study it this game is set up perfect for Monaghan and they are favourites in most peoples books I think to win on Sunday, playing at home with Kerry a bit shaky after an eye opener of a defeat, seemed to me as well as if the Kerry lads had been listening to too many experts telling everyone how good this Kerry side are, only thing is Monaghan don't do well with the favourites tag, the pressure is on them now to step up and get to the All Ireland semi, they will never have a better chance playing in front of a raucous home crowd. as the week goes on I'm starting to think Monaghan can do it."
Monaghan are not favourites if you check it out.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 17/07/2018 22:10:39    2123325

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semi final gift-wrap for the farney men and at home too. ,
Will they unwrap the the gifts that still remain in Kerrys defence ?

Vishred (Mayo) - Posts: 303 - 18/07/2018 09:33:14    2123390

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Was talking to a few Kerry people, they claim that defeat to Mayo last year was a disgrace in the Kingdom but losing to Galway last Sunday was an insult to them altogether, expect a backlash next weekend v Monaghan, Clones is a huge factor in this and Monaghan will fancy their chances at home

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 18/07/2018 10:24:39    2123406

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I couldn't even begin to predict what we'll get from kerry next weekend, the fear is that Monaghan will bully us off the field like Galway did but nothing would really surprise me. Monaghan can be a bit up and down themselves so it's just about impossible to call this one.

Another poor performance will be the end of the road for Fitzmaurice so it'll be interesting to see what he does with team selection and tactics in a must win game. The players looked very unsure of themselves last Sunday, and unhappy almost at how they were being asked to play. Even Geaney (normally our go-to man when the chips are down) looked like he was sulking, it was incredible watching him sky the ball high and wide when we had a 4 v 2 on the Galway goal for instance.

Hopefully we regroup during the week and give a better account of ourselves in Clones. Whether it'll be enough is the question. I am hearing clamours for Donaghy to be included at 14 and lump high ball in to him as if it was 2006. If this is the answer we come up with then we may as well stay at home IMO.

I think it's clear now that we are probably looking at 2020 at the earliest before this team can have any realistic ambitions of Sam. Some of the young lads have a lot of filling out to do. I am also now convinced we need a fresh approach having long been a defender of Eamons. The way we set up last Sunday was a huge step backwards following all the positivity of recent performances. We were never going to get champagne football in those conditions but the very least we expect is that we play with a small bit of ambition. I do expect to see some next Sunday as we have no other choice."
I can imagine it was disappointing for sure Gerry, its the gap in performance from the previous two games to the Galway game. The disappointment is understandable but i think its important to mitigate and be measured in it. It was a shocking day and to be fair Galway are one of the best teams in the country, we've had a couple of hard fought tussles with them this year and scraped a draw and win but matched us without question. I also didn't think Kerry got a hammering the game was in the melting pot up until the goal. I also thought Galway were close to their potential and Kerry were far off theirs, for whatever reason. Kerry have a relatively young team and that can lead to inconsistency and Galway are a well organised team that will target the oppositions weakness's, all a bit of a cocktail that can lead to a performance like Sunday. The psychology part of Kerrys reaction was interesting and the reaction to having the game in the melting pot, in the heat of that pressure you can clinically respond or react with a rush of blood, i think Kerry reacted.

On Fitzmaurice its a head scratcher, i actually think he has something, maybe he got the Kerry job too young, one of the best tactical displays i have seen against the Dubs was the 17 league final, he won the game with his tactics to my mind. I take on board though the historical bad calls or lack variance if a game in the melting pot. For some reason psychologically the melting pot isnt a great space for Kerry management or team. In his defense its a relatively young team. But i have to say i think much is made of the young team etc, no doubt they will develop in to top players - some already are. But when you look around at other counties this year, their seems to be a flush of youth getting its fling, Galway, Donegal, Dublin and a couple of other counties maybe not to the extent of the three i mentioned, so this Kerry team will be competing against these other young players for years and whatever is coming behind to be added for Kerry and the others.

Having said all that i am tipping Kerry to make a mark in the championship and wholly expecting them to get the result they need on Saturday. It will be a battle but if Kerry can match that battle they have the quality that is telling and i generally back quality.

If i was Kerry i would be forgetting about Galway now, its gone. I would be approaching this game without the despondency or frustration that seems evident. Psychologically its needs to be reframed, ive heard the words "do or die", its absolutely no different to how it has been every year before the S8's its knock out football. If Kerry drew Monaghan in previous years in a quarter would there be despondency or fear, i would argue probably not, thats the way the players and fans have to look at it as a knock out game.

I would tend to agree on C.D., i think Fitzmaurice would be remiss if he chopped and changed on Saturday and all the work and confidence of previous months would be undone, he may as well die on his sword if that is to happen, which i doubt. Options and variance are the order of the day keep the CD option on the table or rather bench and read the game as in unfolds, you might need him. Eoghan O Gara has five All Irelands and started our last one so you never know when a player of that style will be required its about options.

The critical thing at the weekend is the battle, Kerry need to earn the right to stamp their undoubted quality on the game win that and play the game on your terms and i dont see Mongahan scoring enough to stay with you. Allow teams like Mongahan and Galway to impose their game on you and it could be a different game.

I still think Kerry are going to win it though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/07/2018 10:27:14    2123409

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I just wonder whether the relatively easy games against Clare and Cork affected Kerry in that they didn't really have a big challenge so they hadn't an opportunity to show their character, face adversity, tweak their line-up / set-up in advance of a tough game with a strong, well organised and skilful Galway side who'd had a challenging Connacht championship. I feel Monaghan faced a similar issue with a relatively soft run through the qualifiers and found it harder to get up to full speed last weekend, as a result. It's hard to call but I guess the result of this weekend may come down to who has the most potential to improve of their last performance. I think Kerry have more to give so I think they'll pip this one by the minimum.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 18/07/2018 10:52:02    2123417

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I couldn't even begin to predict what we'll get from kerry next weekend, the fear is that Monaghan will bully us off the field like Galway did but nothing would really surprise me. Monaghan can be a bit up and down themselves so it's just about impossible to call this one.

Another poor performance will be the end of the road for Fitzmaurice so it'll be interesting to see what he does with team selection and tactics in a must win game. The players looked very unsure of themselves last Sunday, and unhappy almost at how they were being asked to play. Even Geaney (normally our go-to man when the chips are down) looked like he was sulking, it was incredible watching him sky the ball high and wide when we had a 4 v 2 on the Galway goal for instance.

Hopefully we regroup during the week and give a better account of ourselves in Clones. Whether it'll be enough is the question. I am hearing clamours for Donaghy to be included at 14 and lump high ball in to him as if it was 2006. If this is the answer we come up with then we may as well stay at home IMO.

I think it's clear now that we are probably looking at 2020 at the earliest before this team can have any realistic ambitions of Sam. Some of the young lads have a lot of filling out to do. I am also now convinced we need a fresh approach having long been a defender of Eamons. The way we set up last Sunday was a huge step backwards following all the positivity of recent performances. We were never going to get champagne football in those conditions but the very least we expect is that we play with a small bit of ambition. I do expect to see some next Sunday as we have no other choice."
I don't think we will bully Kerry off the field they will be in the right place mentally for this one. It should be easy to motivate them:
The aristocrats going to the home of Ulster football and the responsibility that entails...….
The s***e performance from last week.....
Lose and we are out, win and we are back as contenders...…
Tried to bully us (and probably did) up there in the League.....
Lose and next week becomes a challenge match at home to Kildare....

It should be easy to motivate our lads for similar reasons, so I think this won't be for the faint hearted.

I take the point Re. Donaghy, it may be seen as a step back to go forward, but needs must. On Fitz, he can get tactics right for a given match (like the league final last year) but he seems to be lacking when he has to change mid match. Its giving a hot humid day for Sunday, a typical claustrophobic Ulster final type atmosphere, wouldn't have it any other way

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 18/07/2018 11:07:50    2123424

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Replying To riverboys:  "Was talking to a few Kerry people, they claim that defeat to Mayo last year was a disgrace in the Kingdom but losing to Galway last Sunday was an insult to them altogether, expect a backlash next weekend v Monaghan, Clones is a huge factor in this and Monaghan will fancy their chances at home"
You mean the other way around right? Losing to Mayo a massive insult...not even provincial champions, whereas losing to Galway as provincial champions and league finalists is surely a much easier pill to swallow?

The_DOC (Galway) - Posts: 708 - 18/07/2018 11:18:56    2123427

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I can imagine it was disappointing for sure Gerry, its the gap in performance from the previous two games to the Galway game. The disappointment is understandable but i think its important to mitigate and be measured in it. It was a shocking day and to be fair Galway are one of the best teams in the country, we've had a couple of hard fought tussles with them this year and scraped a draw and win but matched us without question. I also didn't think Kerry got a hammering the game was in the melting pot up until the goal. I also thought Galway were close to their potential and Kerry were far off theirs, for whatever reason. Kerry have a relatively young team and that can lead to inconsistency and Galway are a well organised team that will target the oppositions weakness's, all a bit of a cocktail that can lead to a performance like Sunday. The psychology part of Kerrys reaction was interesting and the reaction to having the game in the melting pot, in the heat of that pressure you can clinically respond or react with a rush of blood, i think Kerry reacted.

On Fitzmaurice its a head scratcher, i actually think he has something, maybe he got the Kerry job too young, one of the best tactical displays i have seen against the Dubs was the 17 league final, he won the game with his tactics to my mind. I take on board though the historical bad calls or lack variance if a game in the melting pot. For some reason psychologically the melting pot isnt a great space for Kerry management or team. In his defense its a relatively young team. But i have to say i think much is made of the young team etc, no doubt they will develop in to top players - some already are. But when you look around at other counties this year, their seems to be a flush of youth getting its fling, Galway, Donegal, Dublin and a couple of other counties maybe not to the extent of the three i mentioned, so this Kerry team will be competing against these other young players for years and whatever is coming behind to be added for Kerry and the others.

Having said all that i am tipping Kerry to make a mark in the championship and wholly expecting them to get the result they need on Saturday. It will be a battle but if Kerry can match that battle they have the quality that is telling and i generally back quality.

If i was Kerry i would be forgetting about Galway now, its gone. I would be approaching this game without the despondency or frustration that seems evident. Psychologically its needs to be reframed, ive heard the words "do or die", its absolutely no different to how it has been every year before the S8's its knock out football. If Kerry drew Monaghan in previous years in a quarter would there be despondency or fear, i would argue probably not, thats the way the players and fans have to look at it as a knock out game.

I would tend to agree on C.D., i think Fitzmaurice would be remiss if he chopped and changed on Saturday and all the work and confidence of previous months would be undone, he may as well die on his sword if that is to happen, which i doubt. Options and variance are the order of the day keep the CD option on the table or rather bench and read the game as in unfolds, you might need him. Eoghan O Gara has five All Irelands and started our last one so you never know when a player of that style will be required its about options.

The critical thing at the weekend is the battle, Kerry need to earn the right to stamp their undoubted quality on the game win that and play the game on your terms and i dont see Mongahan scoring enough to stay with you. Allow teams like Mongahan and Galway to impose their game on you and it could be a different game.

I still think Kerry are going to win it though."
You speak a lot of sense. Only thing I wonder is were we playing to our full potential. Had 13 wides to Kerry's 10 yet far more of our were scorable. As I said previously Kerry will turn up in Clones as Kildare will in Newbridge. A different pressure awaits us and Monaghan.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 18/07/2018 11:26:59    2123433

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I just wonder whether the relatively easy games against Clare and Cork affected Kerry in that they didn't really have a big challenge so they hadn't an opportunity to show their character, face adversity, tweak their line-up / set-up in advance of a tough game with a strong, well organised and skilful Galway side who'd had a challenging Connacht championship. I feel Monaghan faced a similar issue with a relatively soft run through the qualifiers and found it harder to get up to full speed last weekend, as a result. It's hard to call but I guess the result of this weekend may come down to who has the most potential to improve of their last performance. I think Kerry have more to give so I think they'll pip this one by the minimum."
Initially I thought the step up in opposition was a factor too but having looked back at the video there is just no explaining lads not making runs, missing easy hand passes etc., and a genreral sense of apathy and lack of hunger throughout the team. The lads just didn't look up for it which is very hard to fathom given the ravenous hunger they displayed in earlier games.

@ Username I agree Monaghan is a new challenge and we need to forget last weekend. If we win in Clones we are right back on track and we'll have one foot in the SF. Last weekend could turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Tbh if this was a new management it'd probably be forgotten easier. The county support is split on Eamon and he is running out of chances.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 18/07/2018 11:56:56    2123444

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Initially I thought the step up in opposition was a factor too but having looked back at the video there is just no explaining lads not making runs, missing easy hand passes etc., and a genreral sense of apathy and lack of hunger throughout the team. The lads just didn't look up for it which is very hard to fathom given the ravenous hunger they displayed in earlier games.

@ Username I agree Monaghan is a new challenge and we need to forget last weekend. If we win in Clones we are right back on track and we'll have one foot in the SF. Last weekend could turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Tbh if this was a new management it'd probably be forgotten easier. The county support is split on Eamon and he is running out of chances."
They we're trying to be too systematic. Doesn't suit them at all, they don't need to be in any event

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 18/07/2018 12:00:53    2123446

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Hon da Farney!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 18/07/2018 12:01:30    2123447

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Think the second and third games of the Super 8s will prove to be the best and this one is going to be a cracker - if Kerry lose they're out and to go to monaghan to play a battle hardened team in their own patch I think is going to be very tough. Kerry have a great future but think their young guns will come a cropper against the experience of the Farney men.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 18/07/2018 12:06:05    2123448

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While I agree that Kerry can no longer build a team around Ciaran Donaghy but he is still a great option to have on your panel. Recall how he turned their season around in 2006, earned them a draw in 2014 semi final, clinched the 2014 final and created havoc despite being introduced too late under similar weather conditions to last Sunday in the 2015 AI final v Dublin. Now in his mid 30s he is no longer the great player he once was but can still make a contribution for 15-20 mins on the big day and I was amazed that he wasn't introduced for the last 20 mins on Sunday when his team were obviously struggling. Most counties would still love to have someone like him on their panel. Im sure Donegal would have given him 30 mins last Sat against a Dublin defence missing Philly and John Small and have him breaking ball for Brennan , McHugh , Mulligan etc. as well as taking some pressure of an overworked Michael Murphy.
Group ONE is a difficult one to predict. We could have all four counties locked on two points after round 2 matches on Sunday. Kerry could still qualify for the semi final despite losing in Clones on Sunday. ( a big win v Kildare and Galway losing to Kildare and Monaghan) but I'm sure they will be determined to get it right on Sunday.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 18/07/2018 12:40:06    2123463

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Think the second and third games of the Super 8s will prove to be the best and this one is going to be a cracker - if Kerry lose they're out and to go to monaghan to play a battle hardened team in their own patch I think is going to be very tough. Kerry have a great future but think their young guns will come a cropper against the experience of the Farney men."
Kerry aren't necessarily out if they lose. If the following sequence of results happen:

Monaghan beat Kerry; Kildare beat Galway; Monaghan beat Galway and Kerry beat Kildare then the table would finish as:

Monaghan 6
Kerry 2
Galway 2
Kildare 2

with score difference determining second place.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 103 - 18/07/2018 12:46:15    2123467

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Replying To kiloughter:  "You speak a lot of sense. Only thing I wonder is were we playing to our full potential. Had 13 wides to Kerry's 10 yet far more of our were scorable. As I said previously Kerry will turn up in Clones as Kildare will in Newbridge. A different pressure awaits us and Monaghan."
A couple of our efforts landed in the lap of Shane Murphy too, as well as all of the wides.

TheUsername just wanted to use the phrase 'melting pot' repeatedly I think.

If that was Galway at their full potential then we may as well pack up now & concentrate on saving the hay.

Wests_Awake (Galway) - Posts: 877 - 18/07/2018 13:08:20    2123478

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Initially I thought the step up in opposition was a factor too but having looked back at the video there is just no explaining lads not making runs, missing easy hand passes etc., and a genreral sense of apathy and lack of hunger throughout the team. The lads just didn't look up for it which is very hard to fathom given the ravenous hunger they displayed in earlier games.

@ Username I agree Monaghan is a new challenge and we need to forget last weekend. If we win in Clones we are right back on track and we'll have one foot in the SF. Last weekend could turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Tbh if this was a new management it'd probably be forgotten easier. The county support is split on Eamon and he is running out of chances."
I'd say if there is any sense within the panel that what a fair amount of the county is thinking then it will probably manifest itself in how they perform against the better teams. It's ok playing against weaker opposition but in Galway you get the sense that Walsh has the county and the players all onside and they are feeding off that.
They will be hard beaten by any of the remaining contenders so while conditions weren't good I don't think Kerry would have necessarily won anyway. If similar happens against Monaghan who while strong at the minute can be sporadic then it will probably show more a true reflection of where Kerry are.
Fitzmaurice will probably be gone after this championship and then who takes the reins will be interesting.
There is no doubt there is promise there and they may just go for it all out now and who knows what will happen before the curtain falls.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 18/07/2018 13:11:48    2123481

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "Kerry aren't necessarily out if they lose. If the following sequence of results happen:

Monaghan beat Kerry; Kildare beat Galway; Monaghan beat Galway and Kerry beat Kildare then the table would finish as:

Monaghan 6
Kerry 2
Galway 2
Kildare 2

with score difference determining second place."
That's correct in theory but with more than one 'if' .. Im sure the Kingdom would prefer to stay in control of their own destiny by winning in Clones and not depending on favours from both Kildare and Monaghan. Pundits were predicting a Dublin v Kerry final .. might now meet in semi final if atall.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 18/07/2018 13:13:12    2123482

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Replying To kiloughter:  "You speak a lot of sense. Only thing I wonder is were we playing to our full potential. Had 13 wides to Kerry's 10 yet far more of our were scorable. As I said previously Kerry will turn up in Clones as Kildare will in Newbridge. A different pressure awaits us and Monaghan."
Its a fair point and comes down to opinion. To be fair to Galway they have played 3 divisin 1 teams in the championship this year already and beat them and thats after topping DIv 1 this year. I find the media patting them on the head and looking at them as upstarts a bit lacking in analysis, they are huge contenders for the title. Kerry were beaten by one of the best teams on Ireland on Sunday so im not surprised.

You will know more about Galway football then me, what i see against the real top sides is Galway averageing just below 15 points or just above. They are brilliant at imposing their game on others, my worry for Galway is they wont score enough to win the championship its the same thing that stopped Mayo and you are right about the really poor wides at the weekend they need to be going over to have a chance of an All Ireland that just my opinion and of course could be wrong. I would be curious on their average wides in games its something i noticed in games Vs Dublin.

I fancy Galway to make the final and have done since our game in Salt Hill.

The semis this year could be incredible, imagine Tyrone Vs Galway and Dublin Vs Kerry or vice versa.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/07/2018 13:15:40    2123485

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Its a fair point and comes down to opinion. To be fair to Galway they have played 3 divisin 1 teams in the championship this year already and beat them and thats after topping DIv 1 this year. I find the media patting them on the head and looking at them as upstarts a bit lacking in analysis, they are huge contenders for the title. Kerry were beaten by one of the best teams on Ireland on Sunday so im not surprised.

You will know more about Galway football then me, what i see against the real top sides is Galway averageing just below 15 points or just above. They are brilliant at imposing their game on others, my worry for Galway is they wont score enough to win the championship its the same thing that stopped Mayo and you are right about the really poor wides at the weekend they need to be going over to have a chance of an All Ireland that just my opinion and of course could be wrong. I would be curious on their average wides in games its something i noticed in games Vs Dublin.

I fancy Galway to make the final and have done since our game in Salt Hill.

The semis this year could be incredible, imagine Tyrone Vs Galway and Dublin Vs Kerry or vice versa."
The semis this year could be incredible, imagine Tyrone Vs Galway and Donegal Vs Monaghan or vice versa.

Now that would be incredible...!!!

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 801 - 18/07/2018 14:11:12    2123500

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