National Forum

Monaghan V Kerry

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Replying To westkerry:  "2015, 2016, 2017 and last Sunday apart form the defeats the thing they all had in common was Kerry playing with Fear.
This is not arrogance however it's about bloody time we stopped playing with Fear and go out and express ourselves and inflict a bit of fear on ther opposition."
That fear comes from the management westkerry (or manager) he's always been consumed by fear and Iv been saying it for years and it's only a matter of time before it seeps into the team,

We saw it in 2016 when he brought on Marc o'sé for geaney and the game level and last year against Mayo in the replay, we saw it again on Sunday.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 17/07/2018 13:05:34    2123103

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I can see nothing but a Monaghan win here to be honest

oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts: 808 - 17/07/2018 13:25:34    2123118

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Kerry were woeful against Galway.I can't see them turning it around against an even tougher team in their own patch.
Monaghan to win by 3 .

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 17/07/2018 13:48:43    2123131

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There is a Kerry man who lives beside me and is not going to the game as he is sure they will be beat. He has wanted a management change for a while now.

mon07 (Monaghan) - Posts: 139 - 17/07/2018 15:40:43    2123192

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It's difficult to see it, but I would urge Kerry fans to travel in numbers for this one and travel early. The atmosphere in Clones town on a warm Championship day is something to be savoured. The craic this year on Ulster final day was serious.

On the game itself you can guarantee Monaghan will be well up for this. Kerry simply have to match Monaghan's intensity or they can forget about it. When Monaghan get their tails up they're a hard outfit to rein in, particularly at a raucous St Tiernach's Park. If Kerry can do this we could be in for a classic. I give Kerry a hesitant nod to pip Monaghan by a few points but if, and only if their heads are in the right place.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 17/07/2018 16:17:34    2123208

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Looks as if Kerry are on the way out. Monaghan in Clones are difficult to beat but it is important that they remain disciplined in their tackling and not concede easy frees or worse, pick up cards. Should be a nail-biting day for both sets of supporters.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 17/07/2018 16:40:50    2123219

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Travelling up to the match on Sunday. Was in Croke Park last weekend and to be honest I don't mind the loss it was the performance or lack of it that put the tin hat on it.

The bottom line is that Eamonn Fitz has a terrible record of reacting to a game as it unfolds in front of him. The Donaghy change in 2014 against mayo was desperation and last throw of the dice more that any great judgement I believe. Taking Donaghy off in the 2015 semi against Tyrone was the only other big call I remember him getting right.

Basically if plan A doesn't work we are f**ked.

2013 classic against Dublin we didnt know how to squeeze the game after the breathtaking first half. Brought on a very raw Jack Sherwood to close down the game.

2014 went a man up against Mayo in the semi final. When Mayo re-organised at half time we hand't a clue what to do.

2015 against Dublin was a shambles. Left gooch spend the day chasing a corner back. Took off our top scorer from play in JOD. Left Moran on when he was being destroyed. Brought on Paul Galvin.

2016 We were ahead at half time by 5 points. Had no plan in place to help slow down the game and halt dublins momentum when the inevitable 'run' began.

2017 Left a full back line be hung out to dry in the 1st game. Took too long to make a switch to rectify it. Then in the replay tries to play a sweeper system that has never been road tested. Persisted with it when it was patently obvious it was never going to work.

aido_d (Kerry) - Posts: 16 - 17/07/2018 16:44:20    2123220

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I would expect a big Kerry performance think they will come out like possessed after a week of scalding. If Monagahan can contain them for 25 mins and stop ball going into the forward line and really frustrate them, then i think Kerry could cough up a lot of scoreable frees in McManus or Rory range. If the game is still in the melting pot after 25 mins we have a real game."
I couldn't even begin to predict what we'll get from kerry next weekend, the fear is that Monaghan will bully us off the field like Galway did but nothing would really surprise me. Monaghan can be a bit up and down themselves so it's just about impossible to call this one.

Another poor performance will be the end of the road for Fitzmaurice so it'll be interesting to see what he does with team selection and tactics in a must win game. The players looked very unsure of themselves last Sunday, and unhappy almost at how they were being asked to play. Even Geaney (normally our go-to man when the chips are down) looked like he was sulking, it was incredible watching him sky the ball high and wide when we had a 4 v 2 on the Galway goal for instance.

Hopefully we regroup during the week and give a better account of ourselves in Clones. Whether it'll be enough is the question. I am hearing clamours for Donaghy to be included at 14 and lump high ball in to him as if it was 2006. If this is the answer we come up with then we may as well stay at home IMO.

I think it's clear now that we are probably looking at 2020 at the earliest before this team can have any realistic ambitions of Sam. Some of the young lads have a lot of filling out to do. I am also now convinced we need a fresh approach having long been a defender of Eamons. The way we set up last Sunday was a huge step backwards following all the positivity of recent performances. We were never going to get champagne football in those conditions but the very least we expect is that we play with a small bit of ambition. I do expect to see some next Sunday as we have no other choice.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 17/07/2018 16:59:14    2123229

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When was the last time Monaghan beat Kerry in the championship?
It'll be difficult but not impossible but they would need to improve on what we've seen from them to succeed.
This will be a close one and could end all square for me.
Interesting if that happens.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 17/07/2018 18:07:11    2123244

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Kerry had been planning and training for weeks for the Galway game, a loss like sunday imo is something similar a provincinal finalist lossing and then having to play 7days later. Not only do they have to play 7 days later but have to play Monaghan in clones...Perfect match for monaghan!!

abitawit (Fermanagh) - Posts: 274 - 17/07/2018 18:16:20    2123248

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Replying To aido_d:  "Travelling up to the match on Sunday. Was in Croke Park last weekend and to be honest I don't mind the loss it was the performance or lack of it that put the tin hat on it.

The bottom line is that Eamonn Fitz has a terrible record of reacting to a game as it unfolds in front of him. The Donaghy change in 2014 against mayo was desperation and last throw of the dice more that any great judgement I believe. Taking Donaghy off in the 2015 semi against Tyrone was the only other big call I remember him getting right.

Basically if plan A doesn't work we are f**ked.

2013 classic against Dublin we didnt know how to squeeze the game after the breathtaking first half. Brought on a very raw Jack Sherwood to close down the game.

2014 went a man up against Mayo in the semi final. When Mayo re-organised at half time we hand't a clue what to do.

2015 against Dublin was a shambles. Left gooch spend the day chasing a corner back. Took off our top scorer from play in JOD. Left Moran on when he was being destroyed. Brought on Paul Galvin.

2016 We were ahead at half time by 5 points. Had no plan in place to help slow down the game and halt dublins momentum when the inevitable 'run' began.

2017 Left a full back line be hung out to dry in the 1st game. Took too long to make a switch to rectify it. Then in the replay tries to play a sweeper system that has never been road tested. Persisted with it when it was patently obvious it was never going to work."
I was looking back on some Kerry form over the past few years. Amazingly, they have been beaten by 5 different teams in Croke park since 2010. If you look at the 2015 final until now, they have only beaten Clare and have been beaten by mayo (after a draw), Dublin and Galway. So something is seriously wrong down there. But I still think they will come out of the group. Basically, they will get it right in clones. A break from Croke park may be just what the doctor ordered. Look what happened in Tullamore in 2009.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 17/07/2018 19:04:25    2123263

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I wouldn't underestimate the effect of the conditions last Sunday on that Kerry performance. A bar of soap and a mass defence is very difficult to play against. I think Kerry threw in the towel early and just couldn't get out of second gear. Drier conditions next weekend, granted against a defensive Monaghan system, but I wouldn't expect the Kerry forwards to be so poor again and their backs to be sliced open so easily. I think they will rebound with a narrow win but cracking game in store. Will Fitz ring the changes though? Will 'star' start and shake things up? Can McManus be shackled?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/07/2018 19:33:54    2123270

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "When was the last time Monaghan beat Kerry in the championship?
It'll be difficult but not impossible but they would need to improve on what we've seen from them to succeed.
This will be a close one and could end all square for me.
Interesting if that happens."
We've never beat them in championship, but I don't know how relevant that it considering it's 10 years since we met in the summer.

And I know it's only league, but we've won 3 of the last 4 meetings there, so the younger lads on the team would have no mental hangups about meeting them.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 17/07/2018 19:51:57    2123278

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Replying To patk:  "We've never beat them in championship, but I don't know how relevant that it considering it's 10 years since we met in the summer.

And I know it's only league, but we've won 3 of the last 4 meetings there, so the younger lads on the team would have no mental hangups about meeting them."
It's always good to be beating sides and not have the psychological battle to overcome but I'd bet you'd give up a couple of those league victories for a championship one.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 17/07/2018 20:04:07    2123283

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Replying To Joxer:  "I wouldn't underestimate the effect of the conditions last Sunday on that Kerry performance. A bar of soap and a mass defence is very difficult to play against. I think Kerry threw in the towel early and just couldn't get out of second gear. Drier conditions next weekend, granted against a defensive Monaghan system, but I wouldn't expect the Kerry forwards to be so poor again and their backs to be sliced open so easily. I think they will rebound with a narrow win but cracking game in store. Will Fitz ring the changes though? Will 'star' start and shake things up? Can McManus be shackled?"
In fairness the conditions were the same for both sides. It is myth that Kerry were playing against a defensive side. They were playing against a side with a good defensive structure. If you look closely at us we break quickly with super speedsters like Eamon Brannigan and Shane Walsh. Sure TSG highlighted on Sunday night how Dublin mass their defence at times but break brilliantly. In other words they just do it better than anybody else.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 17/07/2018 20:13:13    2123288

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "It's always good to be beating sides and not have the psychological battle to overcome but I'd bet you'd give up a couple of those league victories for a championship one."
Well of course, but we haven't met in the interim so our league meetings are all we can go on. Only 4 of our panel have played championship v Kerry before.

Both sides very different to how they were back then, but I'd expect nothing easy to be got at either end this Sunday regardless.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 17/07/2018 20:26:16    2123294

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Kildare were dreadful last weekend and Monaghan only barely got over the line despite the bad weather favouring a scrappy side like them.

The super 8s have 3 really poor sides in it. These sides will be shown up badly this weekend.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 17/07/2018 20:27:18    2123295

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Replying To Daith:  "Kildare were dreadful last weekend and Monaghan only barely got over the line despite the bad weather favouring a scrappy side like them.

The super 8s have 3 really poor sides in it. These sides will be shown up badly this weekend."
Keep munching on those sour grapes pal

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 17/07/2018 20:33:40    2123298

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ah ye were a poor side alright sure really if the truth be told we shoulnt be there at all but sure looka at least we have div 1 to look forward to come next February wink wink

prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 17/07/2018 20:44:04    2123301

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Replying To abitawit:  "Kerry had been planning and training for weeks for the Galway game, a loss like sunday imo is something similar a provincinal finalist lossing and then having to play 7days later. Not only do they have to play 7 days later but have to play Monaghan in clones...Perfect match for monaghan!!"
I agree when you study it this game is set up perfect for Monaghan and they are favourites in most peoples books I think to win on Sunday, playing at home with Kerry a bit shaky after an eye opener of a defeat, seemed to me as well as if the Kerry lads had been listening to too many experts telling everyone how good this Kerry side are, only thing is Monaghan don't do well with the favourites tag, the pressure is on them now to step up and get to the All Ireland semi, they will never have a better chance playing in front of a raucous home crowd. as the week goes on I'm starting to think Monaghan can do it.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2749 - 17/07/2018 21:31:06    2123312

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