National Forum

Dublin Getting 2 Home Games In The Super 8s. Fair Or Unfair?

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Replying To MesAmis:  "As long as the rest of the country backs each other Dublin will be put playing in whatever ground yous want.

It's been the same for years in Leinster. Dublin could be made play every single Leinster championship match in Longford if that is what is wanted by the other Leinster counties. Nothing that anyone else can do about it. It has been true for years but the other Leinster Counties County Boards have major difficulties with organising parties in breweries it seems.

Same goes now for everyone else. It was clear and obvious that voting for the Super 8s as it was presented meant giving Dublin 2 home games. Hopefully Donegal taking a stand this year and raising the issue will galvanise the county boards to do the right thing and get it sorted for next season.

But it shouldn't be forgotten that this mess is everyone's making. No one should be blaming "Croke Park" or the "top brass" or whatever. It was county board delegates from every county that dropped the ball on this one."
Yeah, that's very true. Fair play for proper constructive conversation.

All the county boards voted for this structure. Beano on Newstalk was the only one to speak out against it.

County boards have to put up or shut up. Donegal started speaking because they are on the wrong side of it. To be fair Donegal are asking the questions constructively. There are many counties in a similar position who would be too weak to ask the question.

The structure was agreed for this year. It is what it is. The next congress will be time to put up or shut up.

Tyrone and the Big Smoke once brought a motion for a Champions Round where the winners would advance to the semi-finals and the losers would take on two qualifiers in the quarter-finals. I agreed with it but it didn't gain support at congress.

Interestingly, the Super 8 games this week are essentially the Champions Round and Qualifier Round 5 envisaged by Tyrone and the Big Smoke. The group stage and the next two rounds are obviously different.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5442 - 14/07/2018 13:42:19    2121558

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Replying To Gavvygavgav:  "You're grasping at straws, Mr Hurling-Province."
This conversation is clearly beyond you! :-)

I am taking part in a balanced discussion. Leinster runners-up have the benefit of provincial semi-final and final in Croke Park. They are not good enough to take advantage.

There have been 2 All-Munster All-Ireland finals. Tipperary, Clare and Limerick have all negotiated the qualifiers to make the All-Ireland series over the years.

Kerry and Dublin Region have in common that they set a high standard within their respective provinces. Leinster could be labelled a hurling province as well if anyone wants to go down a narrow mind view path instead of taking part in a balanced conversation.

The Spring Series has created a new dynamic over the years. Dublin Region are good enough to take advantage of it.

There is a promotional and financial advantage to the Spring Series. If Dublin Region go on the road for the neutral venue game along with their away game, it will be fair.

I already respect that Dublin Region start off the Leinster Championship outside of Croke Park. The Leinster seeding system of keeping provincial semi-finalists apart for the quarter-final draw is beneficial.

In Munster, commonsense has seen provincial finalists given a bye to the following year's semi-final but both finalists could still be drawn against each other in the semi-final. That's very fair.

I think it's beneficial to have 3 provincial games before the All-Ireland series. As part of a balanced conversation, I consider provinces with less than 8 counties as single branch championship structures. I consider provinces with more than 8 counties as double branch structures. There is an argument for Leinster a Ulster semi-finalists being treated the same as provincial finalists. Leinster and Ulster have 21 counties between them. Both those provinces could try and work constructively together if they feel their quarter-final winners should at least be at the same All-Ireland stage as semi-final winners from smaller provinces.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5442 - 14/07/2018 14:03:13    2121561

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Andy Moran "interfered" with a ref this year. Andys a nice guy, received no ban. Supporters were talking Andy up, hes a nice lad, a good GAA man. Nobody wants to see him banned. Same supporters that want Diarmuid C's head on stick.

Relevance: Those supporters/fans/media experts said the rules are the rules. But now the rules are different because its Andy Moran?

The GAA and all counties involved knew the structure of the Super 8's before a ball was kicked. Now everyone wants the rules changed for "fairness". Next year there will be more inequality. Kerry playing Waterford in football? Thats unequal. Mayo playing Leitrim....its all Dublins fault though.

Thats fair though

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1758 - 14/07/2018 14:08:46    2121563

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Replying To ulsterrules:  "Your one of the few dubs that seems to accept the having 2 home games isn't fair and needs to be changed but it is absolutely croke park and top brass at fault here. It was spoken about at congress as 1 home 1 away and 1 neutral.

These things can be changed over night but the Gaa is more focused on money."
Of course it's unfair.

Top brass can be blamed for coming up with an unfair system but ultimately it is the County Board delegates, including Donegal's, that voted for this.

They 100% should have known that they were voting to give Dublin two home games. It was never 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral. It was always, from the very beginning 1 home, 1 away and 1 Croke Park round. The Croke Park round was spoken of from the absolute beginning by Páraic Duffy as the big kick off to the whole Super 8s. It was clear and unambiguous. The GAA top brass did not secretly sneak this in.

Some journos picked it up as neutral, as did one delegate (from Galway I think) I heard speaking during congress played back on the radio during the week, but that only shows that those people didn't read it properly or indeed listen properly.

It was always from the get do, 1 home, 1 away, 1 Croke Park. It was wrong to do it that way in the beginning and hopefully a situation will be introduced and supported in Congress next year. Here's hoping that all County Board delegates actually read and listen next time around.

The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the County Board delegates from all counties that voted for this as was.

We essentially had Donegal arguing against and seeking clarification about the very motion that they voted for, and even spoke in support of.

All this is most annoying because it was all so easily avoidable by the simple acts of reading and listening.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 11827 - 14/07/2018 14:27:04    2121569

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Of course it's unfair.

Top brass can be blamed for coming up with an unfair system but ultimately it is the County Board delegates, including Donegal's, that voted for this.

They 100% should have known that they were voting to give Dublin two home games. It was never 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral. It was always, from the very beginning 1 home, 1 away and 1 Croke Park round. The Croke Park round was spoken of from the absolute beginning by Páraic Duffy as the big kick off to the whole Super 8s. It was clear and unambiguous. The GAA top brass did not secretly sneak this in.

Some journos picked it up as neutral, as did one delegate (from Galway I think) I heard speaking during congress played back on the radio during the week, but that only shows that those people didn't read it properly or indeed listen properly.

It was always from the get do, 1 home, 1 away, 1 Croke Park. It was wrong to do it that way in the beginning and hopefully a situation will be introduced and supported in Congress next year. Here's hoping that all County Board delegates actually read and listen next time around.

The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the County Board delegates from all counties that voted for this as was.

We essentially had Donegal arguing against and seeking clarification about the very motion that they voted for, and even spoke in support of.

All this is most annoying because it was all so easily avoidable by the simple acts of reading and listening."
Wouldn't disagree with you on any of that. County boards around the country sleep walked into this situation. I could never understand how it took until the last two weeks for it to become an issue. I would love to know what the breakdown of the vote was, just to see how many may have copped on and how many didn't. We are in the throes of it now so it's time to knuckle down and get on with it.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 668 - 14/07/2018 17:04:57    2121604

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Of course it's unfair.

Top brass can be blamed for coming up with an unfair system but ultimately it is the County Board delegates, including Donegal's, that voted for this.

They 100% should have known that they were voting to give Dublin two home games. It was never 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral. It was always, from the very beginning 1 home, 1 away and 1 Croke Park round. The Croke Park round was spoken of from the absolute beginning by Páraic Duffy as the big kick off to the whole Super 8s. It was clear and unambiguous. The GAA top brass did not secretly sneak this in.

Some journos picked it up as neutral, as did one delegate (from Galway I think) I heard speaking during congress played back on the radio during the week, but that only shows that those people didn't read it properly or indeed listen properly.

It was always from the get do, 1 home, 1 away, 1 Croke Park. It was wrong to do it that way in the beginning and hopefully a situation will be introduced and supported in Congress next year. Here's hoping that all County Board delegates actually read and listen next time around.

The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the County Board delegates from all counties that voted for this as was.

We essentially had Donegal arguing against and seeking clarification about the very motion that they voted for, and even spoke in support of.

All this is most annoying because it was all so easily avoidable by the simple acts of reading and listening."
So the Galway delegate got it wrong and the room full of delegates and the top gaa brass did not correct him wonder why.

Hopefully Donegal who spoke up for the none dublin Gaa in highlighting the unfairness will have it fixed for us all next year

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 78 - 14/07/2018 17:34:16    2121614

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Replying To kildare73:  "Wouldn't disagree with you on any of that. County boards around the country sleep walked into this situation. I could never understand how it took until the last two weeks for it to become an issue. I would love to know what the breakdown of the vote was, just to see how many may have copped on and how many didn't. We are in the throes of it now so it's time to knuckle down and get on with it."
Agree move on , play the games ,press your representatives and county boards to have situation addressed , put a sock in it until next year, great performance by Kildare under 20s maybe there's life in Leinster still

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 4876 - 14/07/2018 17:46:57    2121620

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Two simple points.

1. Dublin should play their home game which is the Roscommon game in Parnell Park.

2. Fault lies totally with all counties including my own who voted and spoke in favour of the motion. They knew what they were voting for.

theborderfox (Monaghan) - Posts: 105 - 14/07/2018 18:12:33    2121633

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Two simple points.

1. Dublin should play their home game which is the Roscommon game in Parnell Park.

2. Fault lies totally with all counties including my own who voted and spoke in favour of the motion. They knew what they were voting for.

theborderfox (Monaghan) - Posts: 105 - 14/07/2018 18:29:05    2121640

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Here's a possible solution to the Dublin-get-two-games-at-home problem (which I tried to add as a new topic but alas). First, here's the schedule for 2018:

Saturday 14 July
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 1
Donegal v Dublin, Croke Park, 7pm (neutral)
Tyrone v Roscommon, Croke Park, 5pm (neutral)

Saturday 21 July
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 2
Roscommon v Donegal, Dr Hyde Park, 5pm (Roscommon at home)
Tyrone v Dublin, Healy Park, 7pm (Tyrone at home)

Sunday 5 August
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 3
Donegal v Tyrone, Ballybofey, 3.30pm (Donegal at home)
Dublin v Roscommon, Croke Park, 3.30pm (Dublin at home)

Now, here's my suggestion/example with dates and times removed and my changes in bold:

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 1
Donegal v Dublin, Croke Park (Dublin at home) (because it's the truth)
Tyrone v Roscommon, Croke Park (neutral)

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 2
Roscommon v Donegal, Dr Hyde Park (Roscommon at home)
Tyrone v Dublin, Healy Park (Tyrone at home)

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 3
Donegal v Tyrone, Ballybofey (Donegal at home)
Dublin v Roscommon, Ballybofey (neutral)

Of course maybe Ballybofey mightn't be big enough to host a double header, and the GAA want to have the last phase of games in each group take place simultaneously, but that's the general gist of it. You could swap fixtures about, even between groups, but either way, it's possible to satisfy the idea of Dublin having home (Croke Park), away and neutral venues in the Super 8s and keep everybody happy.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 468 - 14/07/2018 18:55:16    2121664

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The opposition getting no breaks from referee again. Dublin goal was clearly overcarried by Scilly. And then clear Donegal free/penalty not given.it was right on the line looked a penalty and black card

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 605 - 14/07/2018 19:39:26    2121678

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No black card rule today I see along with home advantage

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 78 - 14/07/2018 20:18:38    2121693

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Replying To ulsterrules:  "No black card rule today I see along with home advantage"
Should have been a black card for Donegal after 15 seconds. Not given.

Boo hoo

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 259 - 14/07/2018 22:07:10    2121803

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "The opposition getting no breaks from referee again. Dublin goal was clearly overcarried by Scilly. And then clear Donegal free/penalty not given.it was right on the line looked a penalty and black card"
Some goal alright. Dubln didn't take their chances today, Klkenny very off form, and would have won by 9 or 10 another day against that mass defence as Dessie Dolan called it. Good win for the blues and well in control.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3164 - 14/07/2018 22:51:14    2121836

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I thought 53'501 was dissapointing given four of the better supported teams were in action today and the atmosphere was very listless, even the Hill seemed strangely subdued mind you the fare on offer didn't help, a rather mediocre start to the Super 8's, without doubt the Croke Park or neutral games (whatever way you want to describe them) should be at provincial venues, one home, one away and one at a neutral provincial venue is the way forward

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3214 - 15/07/2018 00:34:14    2121879

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http://www.skysports.com/gaa/pundits/news/32477/11438826/peter-canavan-super-8s-should-have-been-in-regional-venues

Caravan reckons the weekend's fixtures should have been played on regional grounds. Again it'll be up to county boards to raise and vote on that at congress.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5442 - 16/07/2018 21:13:32    2122910

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Replying To legendzxix:  "http://www.skysports.com/gaa/pundits/news/32477/11438826/peter-canavan-super-8s-should-have-been-in-regional-venues

Caravan reckons the weekend's fixtures should have been played on regional grounds. Again it'll be up to county boards to raise and vote on that at congress."
He Wheelie knows his stuff

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18335 - 16/07/2018 21:22:40    2122913

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http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/287926

McConville has suggested the use of provincial grounds as well.

The GAA need to think about the general public more. The semi-finals and final are enough for Croke Park.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5442 - 16/07/2018 21:35:40    2122916

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "Here's a possible solution to the Dublin-get-two-games-at-home problem (which I tried to add as a new topic but alas). First, here's the schedule for 2018:

Saturday 14 July
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 1
Donegal v Dublin, Croke Park, 7pm (neutral)
Tyrone v Roscommon, Croke Park, 5pm (neutral)

Saturday 21 July
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 2
Roscommon v Donegal, Dr Hyde Park, 5pm (Roscommon at home)
Tyrone v Dublin, Healy Park, 7pm (Tyrone at home)

Sunday 5 August
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 3
Donegal v Tyrone, Ballybofey, 3.30pm (Donegal at home)
Dublin v Roscommon, Croke Park, 3.30pm (Dublin at home)

Now, here's my suggestion/example with dates and times removed and my changes in bold:

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 1
Donegal v Dublin, Croke Park (Dublin at home) (because it's the truth)
Tyrone v Roscommon, Croke Park (neutral)

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 2
Roscommon v Donegal, Dr Hyde Park (Roscommon at home)
Tyrone v Dublin, Healy Park (Tyrone at home)

All-Ireland SFC quarter-final phase 3
Donegal v Tyrone, Ballybofey (Donegal at home)
Dublin v Roscommon, Ballybofey (neutral)

Of course maybe Ballybofey mightn't be big enough to host a double header, and the GAA want to have the last phase of games in each group take place simultaneously, but that's the general gist of it. You could swap fixtures about, even between groups, but either way, it's possible to satisfy the idea of Dublin having home (Croke Park), away and neutral venues in the Super 8s and keep everybody happy."
Dublin vs Roscommon in Ballybofey I am surprised you didn't suggest Tory Island or Mizen Head - ridiculous

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3684 - 16/07/2018 22:15:04    2122936

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