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Replying To keithlemon: "And yet you've used a term like 'rigged' and, similar to Jim McGuinness, you've suggested that there should be an asterisk beside their titles won.
I'm all for open debate on these matters but surely you can see that Dubs just might take some quotes like these as having a pop at them. Currently on twitter you have other well known journalists stating such 'facts' as that only 6 of the starting team on Saturday, started game one of 2015, therefore this isn't a once in a generation team. Call me mad but using such logic between a Leinster Quarter final and a 2nd round Super 8's game (with all to play for) is a little bit disingenuous to make such a point. If you applied the same logic to the great Kilkenny team of the previous decade, they had quite a few differences between say game 1 of 2006 to the AI final in 2009. Would anyone class that Kilkenny team and the conveyor belt of talent that came through them in the same period as not a once in a generation team?
Nothing bitter about a fact. But when you pick arbitrary facts out of the air like that, on a consistent basis, then yeah, I think people are going to start thinking you're having a pop at them." At no point have I ever suggested that there should be an asterisk beside any titles won by Dublin, neither have I picked "facts out of the air" arbitrary or otherwise. All I have ever said was the Dublin have been the beneficiaries of corruption within the corridors of power in Croke Park.
As for the this year's championship being rigged, I stand by that. I don't for one second say that it was done to favour Dublin directly, it was done to maximise revenue but rigged is rigged no matter what the reason.
On the legacy issue, I think Dublin are a great team managed by the best manager the game has seen, Jim Gavin. But the facts are that they won the last two AI's by a single point in Croke Park their home ground which, according to Kevin Heffernan, is worth 3 points to them. When conversations are being had about who was the greatest, this Dublin team will be mentioned, but someone will always say "yes they were great but....".
Why a small number of Dubs should think this is having a pop I don't understand. They aren't happy with all the success they also seem to want the rest of us to bow at the altar. Well I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that, as we in Donegal discovered when we had a bit of success in 2012.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/07/2018 21:21:23
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Replying To MuckrossHead: "At no point have I ever suggested that there should be an asterisk beside any titles won by Dublin, neither have I picked "facts out of the air" arbitrary or otherwise. All I have ever said was the Dublin have been the beneficiaries of corruption within the corridors of power in Croke Park.
As for the this year's championship being rigged, I stand by that. I don't for one second say that it was done to favour Dublin directly, it was done to maximise revenue but rigged is rigged no matter what the reason.
On the legacy issue, I think Dublin are a great team managed by the best manager the game has seen, Jim Gavin. But the facts are that they won the last two AI's by a single point in Croke Park their home ground which, according to Kevin Heffernan, is worth 3 points to them. When conversations are being had about who was the greatest, this Dublin team will be mentioned, but someone will always say "yes they were great but....".
Why a small number of Dubs should think this is having a pop I don't understand. They aren't happy with all the success they also seem to want the rest of us to bow at the altar. Well I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that, as we in Donegal discovered when we had a bit of success in 2012." Funny you should say, I was talking to a lad from Clare today who said he had asterisk beside Donegals 2012 win and Kerry's win 2014 on the basis that they never didn't beat Dublin in those years, who according to him have proved to be the best team of the decade and they just got lucky dodging them.
Just to be fair and acknowledge we did agree Donegal deseverdly did deserve the All Ireland in 14 after they beat Dublin, but didn't win it.
I suppose I just bring it up because lads I always will have different criteria on what they personally acknowledge and unacknowladge as success, it's irrelvent really what any individual thinks and doesn't make a blind bit of difference in history.
Will the record show Donegal failed to beat the most successful team of an era to win Sam, nope, will anyone care nope.
Shows the value of asterisk really.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/07/2018 21:48:14
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Replying To Donegalman: "The point about the referee here is very valid whether people like this or not." Wouldn't have a problem with that as long as it applies to every county. No Munster ref should take a Kerry game. The media has been heavily infiltrated by Kerry "influencers" like Spillane, O'Se and Cooper. A Munster ref would feel almost obliged to lean towards the Kerrymen for any 50/50 decision given the Kerry media panel that will have his performance under the spotlight. A ref from Lenister would not feel obligated to side one way or the other. With one third of the population of the island living in the capital you'd be hard pushed to find a ref without some connection to dirty aul Dublin. Refs don't concern this Dublin team anyway, except when they're match reports are being scripted by Pat Spillane.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 25/07/2018 22:31:24
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Of course its unfair, home advantage counts for a lot. Imagine Man Utd got to play all their games at Old Trafford, they would stroll the league every year I'm sure.
TrimJim (Meath) - Posts: 24 - 26/07/2018 04:16:23
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Replying To Joxer: "Wouldn't have a problem with that as long as it applies to every county. No Munster ref should take a Kerry game. The media has been heavily infiltrated by Kerry "influencers" like Spillane, O'Se and Cooper. A Munster ref would feel almost obliged to lean towards the Kerrymen for any 50/50 decision given the Kerry media panel that will have his performance under the spotlight. A ref from Lenister would not feel obligated to side one way or the other. With one third of the population of the island living in the capital you'd be hard pushed to find a ref without some connection to dirty aul Dublin. Refs don't concern this Dublin team anyway, except when they're match reports are being scripted by Pat Spillane." Would agree with this too, but u have to acknowledge Ciaran Wheelan's influence on the panel too if u are going to start pointing to this as a decision making factor. The big issue, the refs that is, can be resourced properly if the will is there.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 26/07/2018 10:03:04
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Replying To MuckrossHead: "At no point have I ever suggested that there should be an asterisk beside any titles won by Dublin, neither have I picked "facts out of the air" arbitrary or otherwise. All I have ever said was the Dublin have been the beneficiaries of corruption within the corridors of power in Croke Park.
As for the this year's championship being rigged, I stand by that. I don't for one second say that it was done to favour Dublin directly, it was done to maximise revenue but rigged is rigged no matter what the reason.
On the legacy issue, I think Dublin are a great team managed by the best manager the game has seen, Jim Gavin. But the facts are that they won the last two AI's by a single point in Croke Park their home ground which, according to Kevin Heffernan, is worth 3 points to them. When conversations are being had about who was the greatest, this Dublin team will be mentioned, but someone will always say "yes they were great but....".
Why a small number of Dubs should think this is having a pop I don't understand. They aren't happy with all the success they also seem to want the rest of us to bow at the altar. Well I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that, as we in Donegal discovered when we had a bit of success in 2012." Kinda tripping over yourself there Muck when you start with: "At no point have I ever suggested that there should be an asterisk beside any titles won by Dublin" and you finish with "When conversations are being had about who was the greatest, this Dublin team will be mentioned, but someone will always say "yes they were great but...."
Therefore you do think that their titles won during this period are sullied somewhat. But that's fine, that's opinions for ya.
Just as much as you think Dubs want people to 'bow at the altar' I think there are just as many that want to knock them. You say the competition is rigged, I think it's something that's been made to be more than it actually is. You think this takes something away from the current Dublin teams pedigree, I think they're victims of their own success in how people want to critique their achievements. You say tomato I say tomato....(doesn't work I know)
We could go round and round on this but back to the point of the thread, I agree with you on the 2 games in Croker. I hope that this is corrected for next season. Last weekend proved how great the championship can be when games are brought on the road. I'm sure you can't wait to give Tyrone a good welcome to Ballybofey next weekend. But, even with the Dubs only getting 1 home game next year, I fully expect people will have more
criticisms of Dublin and why they're 'not as good as they think they are'.
C'est la vie. It would be so boring if we all agreed with each other.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 26/07/2018 10:46:10
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Give it a rest Muck
Seriously projecting your own geopolitical frustrations over the last while...
I've read a bit of your comments over the last few days and very glad Mes wised you up before I got a chance to do so.. the sheer ignorance of that particular post speaks volumes and tells me you can't see beyond your own nose a wee bit no?
You don't think working class/middle class people aren't struggling in Dublin? Where do we start on that topic...
As Keithlemon said above do you not realise how hypocritical your sounding?
We don't expect anyone to bow at our altar (Never( but when you're asking and spouting throw away comments "Why did the Dubs do it" or "Dublin gets everything while we're on our knees" expect such odd comments to be critically approached and exposed.
I'd never expect anyone to bow at any altar but don't be expecting much back in return while making such comments.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/07/2018 11:17:38
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Replying To keithlemon: "Kinda tripping over yourself there Muck when you start with: "At no point have I ever suggested that there should be an asterisk beside any titles won by Dublin" and you finish with "When conversations are being had about who was the greatest, this Dublin team will be mentioned, but someone will always say "yes they were great but...."
Therefore you do think that their titles won during this period are sullied somewhat. But that's fine, that's opinions for ya.
Just as much as you think Dubs want people to 'bow at the altar' I think there are just as many that want to knock them. You say the competition is rigged, I think it's something that's been made to be more than it actually is. You think this takes something away from the current Dublin teams pedigree, I think they're victims of their own success in how people want to critique their achievements. You say tomato I say tomato....(doesn't work I know)
We could go round and round on this but back to the point of the thread, I agree with you on the 2 games in Croker. I hope that this is corrected for next season. Last weekend proved how great the championship can be when games are brought on the road. I'm sure you can't wait to give Tyrone a good welcome to Ballybofey next weekend. But, even with the Dubs only getting 1 home game next year, I fully expect people will have more
criticisms of Dublin and why they're 'not as good as they think they are'.
C'est la vie. It would be so boring if we all agreed with each other." Fair enough, I suppose we all come to things from our own perspective, coloured by our own experience & I will hold my hands up to that.
I will just say again that my problem is not with the Dublin team & supporters but with those in the corridors of power who have deliberately engineered this situation. As with the Liam Miller fiasco they have shown themselves to be sadly out of touch with what the grassroots are about but hopefully the events of the last few weeks will see a change.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 27/07/2018 22:40:42
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Give it a rest Muck
Seriously projecting your own geopolitical frustrations over the last while...
I've read a bit of your comments over the last few days and very glad Mes wised you up before I got a chance to do so.. the sheer ignorance of that particular post speaks volumes and tells me you can't see beyond your own nose a wee bit no?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18357 - 26/07/2018 11:17:38
Jimbo, the day ever comes when you get a chance to "wise me up" will be a sad and sorry day indeed in Muckross Towers
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 27/07/2018 22:45:26
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Replying To MuckrossHead: "Give it a rest Muck
Seriously projecting your own geopolitical frustrations over the last while...
I've read a bit of your comments over the last few days and very glad Mes wised you up before I got a chance to do so.. the sheer ignorance of that particular post speaks volumes and tells me you can't see beyond your own nose a wee bit no?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18357 - 26/07/2018 11:17:38
Jimbo, the day ever comes when you get a chance to "wise me up" will be a sad and sorry day indeed in Muckross Towers" Yeah yeah Muck
"Why did Dublin do it"
Pfffhh
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/07/2018 23:02:01
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Replying To jimbodub: " Replying To MuckrossHead: "Give it a rest Muck
Seriously projecting your own geopolitical frustrations over the last while...
I've read a bit of your comments over the last few days and very glad Mes wised you up before I got a chance to do so.. the sheer ignorance of that particular post speaks volumes and tells me you can't see beyond your own nose a wee bit no?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18357 - 26/07/2018 11:17:38
Jimbo, the day ever comes when you get a chance to "wise me up" will be a sad and sorry day indeed in Muckross Towers" Yeah yeah Muck "Why did Dublin do it" Pfffhh"
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 27/07/2018 23:25:38
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Replying To MuckrossHead: " Replying To jimbodub: "[quote=MuckrossHead: "Give it a rest Muck
Seriously projecting your own geopolitical frustrations over the last while...
I've read a bit of your comments over the last few days and very glad Mes wised you up before I got a chance to do so.. the sheer ignorance of that particular post speaks volumes and tells me you can't see beyond your own nose a wee bit no?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18357 - 26/07/2018 11:17:38
Jimbo, the day ever comes when you get a chance to "wise me up" will be a sad and sorry day indeed in Muckross Towers" Yeah yeah Muck "Why did Dublin do it" Pfffhh"
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 27/07/2018 23:58:00
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Two old veterans locking horns :D
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 28/07/2018 01:10:56
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This is almost a home game for Roscommon with 20 of them working or studying in the capital.
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 28/07/2018 17:55:56
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "This is almost a home game for Roscommon with 20 of them working or studying in the capital." Like a lot of counties. Not many call it home.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 28/07/2018 18:16:13
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "This is almost a home game for Roscommon with 20 of them working or studying in the capital." Well this is an issue for the country. The capital is creaking. Irish Water want to bring water from the river Shannon to the capital. Dublin airport is going to get a third terminal.
Other cities in the country like Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford probably need more investment to address the balance where city orientated is concerned. This will benefit surrounding counties then as well as people wouldn't have to travel so far from there home county in search of employment.
The GAA should at raise discussion on these issues.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 28/07/2018 18:46:22
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Replying To legendzxix: "Well this is an issue for the country. The capital is creaking. Irish Water want to bring water from the river Shannon to the capital. Dublin airport is going to get a third terminal.
Other cities in the country like Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford probably need more investment to address the balance where city orientated is concerned. This will benefit surrounding counties then as well as people wouldn't have to travel so far from there home county in search of employment.
The GAA should at raise discussion on these issues." Why? Would the Minister for Education tell the GAA how to schedule games? It's not his business. Bringing Shannon water to Dublin isn't a bad plan provided they also try to fix leaks in the water system in Dublin and the rest of the country and the taxpayer doesn't end up paying. Not disputing that the rest of the country doesn't need investment, just think the GAA should keep sports separate from politics.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 28/07/2018 19:13:07
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Dublin could play on the moon and still beat any team in the country .they could probably beat 2 teams at once, just enjoy this bunch, they will go down as one of the best in history
GAAdundalk (Louth) - Posts: 641 - 28/07/2018 19:32:32
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Replying To GAAdundalk: "Dublin could play on the moon and still beat any team in the country .they could probably beat 2 teams at once, just enjoy this bunch, they will go down as one of the best in history" Mayo beat themselves against the Dubs on three occasions at least. The home difference would have swung it Dublin's way. Don't be coming out with ridiculous statements. Kerry won 4 in a Row playing away from home in all Semi-Finals and Finals. Galway won 3 in a Row. If Dublin does it, it is because they get to play all semis and finals at home. Big Difference. History will never change that fact.
SAMMYTHEBULL (Galway) - Posts: 1646 - 28/07/2018 20:38:57
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Replying To SAMMYTHEBULL: "Mayo beat themselves against the Dubs on three occasions at least. The home difference would have swung it Dublin's way. Don't be coming out with ridiculous statements. Kerry won 4 in a Row playing away from home in all Semi-Finals and Finals. Galway won 3 in a Row. If Dublin does it, it is because they get to play all semis and finals at home. Big Difference. History will never change that fact." Going by that logic, Dublin should have won every AI that was played in CP. Since they didn't, there must be other factors involved. Such as? Any ideas Sammy?
Workingclass (Mayo) - Posts: 26 - 28/07/2018 20:54:20
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