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The vast majority of the country are in support of Kildare in their stand off with the GAA. However I think it's fair to ask why a lot of counties have very sub standard stadiums. This is particularly evident in Leinster. Credit needs to go towards counties who have had little success but have county boards who are ambitious and organised. An example is Offaly who have a nice stadium. What would people say is the best small/medium stadium in the country? sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/06/2018 10:37:29 2115781 Link
Having 32 counties with top grounds would not be a good use of resources. Counties don't fund these developments themselves. Central funding is also set aside for them. It wouldn't be all Kildare's fault that their ground isn't suitable. It doesn't make sense really to be investing in a ground in Kildare when Croke Park can be used for their big matches and their own ground has been adequate for other fixtures. This game is somewhat unusual in that it's a big game outside the Leinster championship and whilst there's still home team designation. Mayo as an opponent causes a problem as they have a large number of season ticket holders. All in all these problems arise because the GAA is trying to create a commercial product out of the county game. There aren't the resources in the association to support this approach. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 27/06/2018 11:25:55 2115827 Link
Its pure economics of supply and demand. If there was a significant demand for a better stadium with better facilities / capacity with no viable alternative nearby, then I'm sure county boards would have placed a lot of focus on ensuring their grounds were fit to meet demand. Otherwise, the stadia are just vanity projects that get the odd game where they justify their capacity but the rest of the time are a millstone around the neck of the county board, taking up resources that could be much better placed elsewhere. Also, significant developments of stadia is extremely expensive and can be crippling to the local county board. A good (bad!) example is the Galway Centre of Excellence in Athenry, which was due to cost / be valued at around €8m. They quickly got into trouble and the GAA had to take over the loan with the effect that they have tied up resources for a significant period that could have been applied elsewhere and, ultimately, are taking a seven figure hit on the project. McHale park is another project that had the county board tied up in knots over debt and I'm sure there are several more examples. Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 27/06/2018 12:05:01 2115875 Link
Drogheda is no doubt the worse county ground in the country. It's an embarrassment and a joke at this stage. My fav small county ground is Tullamore. OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 27/06/2018 12:12:51 2115886 Link
Agree Kurt with your premise - venues are fine for most games and in each of the provinces there are plenty of stadia that meet the general demand . Some county boards have gotten into big trouble due to investment in a bigger stadium. .. and this rebounds on ensuring that there is burnout due or fundraising fatigue within a county for a stadium resulting in central funds being used to prop up the venture and thus leaving other schemes short on funds. Each county does not have to have a 40,000 seater stadium. Its basic- we can use the neighbour's one- they have them - we can drive there and get home within a short timespan after the match and it is nice to travel to games as well. carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 27/06/2018 12:17:51 2115890 Link
2 or 3 years time, St Conleth's Park has a sensible redevelopment complete and can fit between 15k and 18k. Kildare get a home draw against Mayo (or Dublin) in round 3 of the qualifiers. CCCP turns around and says 30k want to attend so lets move it to Croke Park. This scenario can happen to about 20 counties who do not have 30k+ size stadiums. So don't be crowing. It could be you next year. Cilldara_2000 (Kildare) - Posts: 57 - 27/06/2018 12:27:21 2115897 Link
I think all county grounds in Ulster cover what is needed. I think Armagh have the best ground and have to agree with Ollie Louth have the worst. Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 27/06/2018 12:27:52 2115898 Link
Replying To sam1884: "The vast majority of the country are in support of Kildare in their stand off with the GAA. However I think it's fair to ask why a lot of counties have very sub standard stadiums. This is particularly evident in Leinster. Credit needs to go towards counties who have had little success but have county boards who are ambitious and organised. An example is Offaly who have a nice stadium. What would people say is the best small/medium stadium in the country?" I agree totally with you, both Laois and Offaly have upgraded their facilites and they should be rewarded by HQ. Yet there are some counties who have deliberately chosen not to and have wasted money on white elephant projects. If a lesson is learnt here from this mess is when you call something Super 8 - you got to have the infrastructure to match those lofty ideals. I am sure come the end of summer the fine print of the Super 8's will be amended. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 27/06/2018 12:29:19 2115899 Link
Look at Munster they can accommodate big games, Killarney, Thurles, Pair Ui Chaomh, Limerick, Ennis all have large capacity. We don't need 30000 capacity, 15000 after health and safety would do, if you plan for the future then thing usually fall into place in future years, here is another problem, if Kildare or Leitrim make the super 8s this year will they be allowed to use their home pitch as a place to play their home match, if it's against a team with big support the answer will probably be No riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 27/06/2018 12:35:57 2115906 Link
This can be very simple, your season tickets should only be viable for your home games not away this solves everything. If you happen to be drawn away from home in say a smaller ground then you get 10/20% of tickets, which your county board will dish out and if more become available then great. Yourjoking (USA) - Posts: 706 - 27/06/2018 12:52:28 2115923 Link
Replying To riverboys: "Look at Munster they can accommodate big games, Killarney, Thurles, Pair Ui Chaomh, Limerick, Ennis all have large capacity. We don't need 30000 capacity, 15000 after health and safety would do, if you plan for the future then thing usually fall into place in future years, here is another problem, if Kildare or Leitrim make the super 8s this year will they be allowed to use their home pitch as a place to play their home match, if it's against a team with big support the answer will probably be No" Meath will have a 20k all seater stadium within a couple of years. But how can we expect to bring dubs to navan if they demand 30k ??? royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/06/2018 13:02:19 2115930 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Having 32 counties with top grounds would not be a good use of resources. Counties don't fund these developments themselves. Central funding is also set aside for them. It wouldn't be all Kildare's fault that their ground isn't suitable. It doesn't make sense really to be investing in a ground in Kildare when Croke Park can be used for their big matches and their own ground has been adequate for other fixtures. This game is somewhat unusual in that it's a big game outside the Leinster championship and whilst there's still home team designation. Mayo as an opponent causes a problem as they have a large number of season ticket holders. All in all these problems arise because the GAA is trying to create a commercial product out of the county game. There aren't the resources in the association to support this approach." Do you agree so that the Casement Park development should be abandoned? Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1064 - 27/06/2018 13:26:00 2115943 Link
We have too many rubbish stadiums that get filled every 2 years at best. Much better to have 12,000-15,000 with decent facilities that can be filled much more regularly (i.e. county finals etc). If possible they should be multi use facilities even if this costs more. This would allow extra revenue streams and even funding from county councils etc. I think the focus on larger capacities is wrong. If people can't get tickets tough, they might buy season tickets next year. That is not to be taking a hard man approach but the sense of occasion and atmosphere in a full stadium rather than a half full one is so much better. I would implement minimum standards for stadia, grade all stadia nominated by each county board and outline what grading of stadium is acceptable for various competitions or stages of competitions. This grading should not focus on capacity (once a basic minimum is covered). As a previous poster said we cannot have 30,000 stadiums in every county. Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1834 - 27/06/2018 13:51:28 2115966 Link
Replying To arock: "I agree totally with you, both Laois and Offaly have upgraded their facilites and they should be rewarded by HQ. Yet there are some counties who have deliberately chosen not to and have wasted money on white elephant projects. If a lesson is learnt here from this mess is when you call something Super 8 - you got to have the infrastructure to match those lofty ideals. I am sure come the end of summer the fine print of the Super 8's will be amended." When have Dublin footballers last played a senior championship match in their home of Parnell Park? Has Dublin County Board actually got a stadium that could hold a Super 8 championship match ? bearing in mind that Croke Park is owned by the GAA. aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 27/06/2018 14:15:11 2115983 Link
Replying To Eddie the Exile: "Do you agree so that the Casement Park development should be abandoned?" Nope that's not what I'm saying. I think it's very different to what I was initially saying. Kildare are very close to Dublin which has an 80k+ seater stadium that gets used for Kildares large Leinster championship games. There was not the need for another 20k+ stadium so near. The Ulster council deemed that it needed a new Provincial ground. Belfast being the largest City in the area and with a strong road network was decided to host this ground. I have heard some good arguments that it should have been built in Omagh instead. Anyway it was started at Casement, it should be finished now. It's been 25 years since Clones was renovated, Ulster was probably due investment in infrastructure. You have to be sensible about these things though not every county can have a state of the art stadium. If it was a choice between a renovated Casement or more GDOs for improved youth development, I'd take the youth development every day of the week. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 27/06/2018 16:13:26 2116040 Link
Replying To aceofspades: "When have Dublin footballers last played a senior championship match in their home of Parnell Park? Has Dublin County Board actually got a stadium that could hold a Super 8 championship match ? bearing in mind that Croke Park is owned by the GAA." When have Dublin footballers last played a senior championship match in their home of Parnell Park? Dublin haven't played a championship football match there since 2004. *Has Dublin County Board actually got a stadium that could hold a Super 8 championship match ?* Parnell Park could, in theory, hold a Super 8 match. Realistically, though, this is not going to happen. However, last year the average attendance at Dublin championship games was just shy of 60,000. On that basis, there's no ground in the country, bar Croke Park, that could fully deal with the demand. The OP had issue with certain county boards, in general, letting their stadia fall into disrepair / become obsolete / unsuitable for current requirements. I would make the argument that ploughing big money into Parnell Park to increase capacity would be a waste (as well as unfeasible given its location) when there's a huge stadium down the road. I, personally, would have loved it if the Dublin county board had begun development on the Spawell site for a new ground with 25-30k capacity which would be filled for league games and would meet the demand of early championship fixtures but, again, would this just have been a vanity project / waste of resources when there's an excellent stadium already in place up the road? Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 27/06/2018 16:28:20 2116050 Link
Replying To Kurt_Angle: "When have Dublin footballers last played a senior championship match in their home of Parnell Park? Dublin haven't played a championship football match there since 2004. *Has Dublin County Board actually got a stadium that could hold a Super 8 championship match ?* Parnell Park could, in theory, hold a Super 8 match. Realistically, though, this is not going to happen. However, last year the average attendance at Dublin championship games was just shy of 60,000. On that basis, there's no ground in the country, bar Croke Park, that could fully deal with the demand. The OP had issue with certain county boards, in general, letting their stadia fall into disrepair / become obsolete / unsuitable for current requirements. I would make the argument that ploughing big money into Parnell Park to increase capacity would be a waste (as well as unfeasible given its location) when there's a huge stadium down the road. I, personally, would have loved it if the Dublin county board had begun development on the Spawell site for a new ground with 25-30k capacity which would be filled for league games and would meet the demand of early championship fixtures but, again, would this just have been a vanity project / waste of resources when there's an excellent stadium already in place up the road?" It would have been. This obsession with home fixtures is really a new thing in the GAA. There's a long tradition across the association that championship fixtures are somewhat organised on an ad hoc basis at a suitable ground. I don't see the problem really with that. Kildare were still right to insist on home advantage, given the rules of the competition. The rules are a bit stupid though. Not every county can or should have a ground fit for hosting these big matches. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 27/06/2018 16:43:21 2116056 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Nope that's not what I'm saying. I think it's very different to what I was initially saying. Kildare are very close to Dublin which has an 80k+ seater stadium that gets used for Kildares large Leinster championship games. There was not the need for another 20k+ stadium so near. The Ulster council deemed that it needed a new Provincial ground. Belfast being the largest City in the area and with a strong road network was decided to host this ground. I have heard some good arguments that it should have been built in Omagh instead. Anyway it was started at Casement, it should be finished now. It's been 25 years since Clones was renovated, Ulster was probably due investment in infrastructure. You have to be sensible about these things though not every county can have a state of the art stadium. If it was a choice between a renovated Casement or more GDOs for improved youth development, I'd take the youth development every day of the week." Hmm, Kildare should not bother with a 20k plus stadium but we should..... Absolutely no need for a new provincial dustbowl in Ulster, if extra capacity were needed then 5-10k more could have easily been fitted at eastern side of Clones. Belfast isn't even close to the centre of GAA in the province anyway. The lure of a vanity project is too great for the Ulster council and hanger-on politicians I suppose, especially if you can get HMG to fund part of it. Given the state of the games in the urban areas of Ulster, you are right that youth development should come first. You can't cut a ribbon on that though. Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1064 - 27/06/2018 17:04:44 2116065 Link
Replying To Eddie the Exile: "Hmm, Kildare should not bother with a 20k plus stadium but we should..... Absolutely no need for a new provincial dustbowl in Ulster, if extra capacity were needed then 5-10k more could have easily been fitted at eastern side of Clones. Belfast isn't even close to the centre of GAA in the province anyway. The lure of a vanity project is too great for the Ulster council and hanger-on politicians I suppose, especially if you can get HMG to fund part of it. Given the state of the games in the urban areas of Ulster, you are right that youth development should come first. You can't cut a ribbon on that though." Kildare is in Leinster and has Croke Park on its doorstep. Antrim is in Ulster and its main Provincial ground hasn't been renovated for 25 years. So the 2 situations are completely different. Clearly you are bitter that Clones is getting usurped. To be honest I don't think Casement was a great choice for the new Provincial ground either. It had been renovated in the late 90s and was a fine ground as it was. I would have been more than happy for work to never have started. Your question was should it be finished. Yes it should, to not finish it would be downright stupid. Having a major city in the country without a proper GAA stadium would be absurd. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 27/06/2018 17:59:19 2116081 Link
Replying To Yourjoking: "This can be very simple, your season tickets should only be viable for your home games not away this solves everything. If you happen to be drawn away from home in say a smaller ground then you get 10/20% of tickets, which your county board will dish out and if more become available then great." Not quite so simple if you are a season ticket holder for a county that has a realistic chance of reaching an All Ireland final. You need to attend 60% of championship matches to be guaranteed an All Ireland ticket if your team reaches the final so it would cause more than a little resentment for a ticket holder who is just under that figure but is unable to have their attendance recorded for a game thru no fault of their own. Also payment for each individual match is deducted from season ticket holders account in advance so it would add considerably to administrative costs if staff have to trawl through the attendance records after a game and refund those who didnt/couldn't attend. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 27/06/2018 18:03:02 2116085 Link