National Forum

Why Does Everybody Have An Opinion On Hurling Relegation Now?

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I think 2 Provs of 6 is best (Joe McD Final 2 replace both 6ths each year, so Muns can have a non-Kerry guest team) - each drawn into 2 Prov pools of 3 (M1, M2, L1, L2).
M1 and L1 have 1st, 4th and 6th Prov seeds; M2 and L2 have 2nd, 3rd and 5th seeds.
Each team plays 2 pool games and then 4 pool winners contest Prov Finals.
In parallel, each team plays 3 Inter-Prov games - M1vL2 and M2vL1 - top 6 of 12 (based on 5 match record) join 2 Prov Champs in the AI QFs (Prov Champs that are also in top 6 go to AI SFs).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 02/06/2018 05:39:47    2106396

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When I'm having a go here it's not snobbery by the way. It's just me being annoyed by the people running hurling.

I'm not a big hurling fan but as a Gael I want it to do well and I want it to grow outside it's traditional regions.

I just think the administration from the hurling counties is so bad.

They come up with structures that are perfect for 1 year and forget about the prospect of relegation and promotion and how that changes the dynamic.

There's a real "sure it'll be grand" approach to the running of things that just shouldn't cut in the Ireland we live in now

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 02/06/2018 08:00:36    2106401

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I agree. The 'Super 8' is another case in point - was the gulf between the 'haves and have nots' considered in the decision to create this Elitist phase, or their likelihood of dead rubbers. The latter could be fully avoided with 3-team groups - 4x3 would have been better with the 1st group match winner held over to the 3rd match - 4 winners to AI SFs - dead rubbers impossible (but I imagine this is an eye opener for the Governing 'ah sure it's grand').
I want intercounty players to leave their parish clubs and serve one master (county only) - similar to the way the Irish rugby provs moved away from being representative sides to quasi 'Super Clubs' to compete for higher honours (Pro 14 and Euro Cup). This would greatly solve the 'County v Club' scheduling dilemma - in fact, the seasons could overlap in the summer.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 02/06/2018 16:28:53    2106498

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Just thinking there. If the Liam McCarthy was expanded to 12 teams (2 groups of 6), Galway moved to Munster and this year's Joe McDonagh Cup finalist are added to Leinster with Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, and Offaly would that appease Leinster hurling?

You could play the groups over 7 weeks in May and June. Top 2 go to provincial finals.

Top four in Munster and Leinster go to quarter finals with group winners play 4th in the other group and so on.

5th in one group play 6th in the other group and the losers play in a relegation final. Winner of Joe McDonagh replaces the relegated team.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/06/2018 20:15:34    2106551

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Just thinking there. If the Liam McCarthy was expanded to 12 teams (2 groups of 6), Galway moved to Munster and this year's Joe McDonagh Cup finalist are added to Leinster with Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, and Offaly would that appease Leinster hurling?

You could play the groups over 7 weeks in May and June. Top 2 go to provincial finals.

Top four in Munster and Leinster go to quarter finals with group winners play 4th in the other group and so on.

5th in one group play 6th in the other group and the losers play in a relegation final. Winner of Joe McDonagh replaces the relegated team."
Not a bad idea. To really move foward I think we need 12 teams in it. Two groups of 6 in an open draw. Top 2 in each group into semi-finals. Bottom team in each group go down to be replaced by Joe Mc Donagh finalists. Leinster and Munster could be played as a separate competition with no bearing on the Liam Mac Carthy. You would get a great mix of games every year and losing 2 games would probably mean your out. Could be started in May and easily finished in August with 2 weeks between game's. Every team guaranteed 5 games .

Skippy2 (Carlow) - Posts: 61 - 02/06/2018 22:44:03    2106606

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The heavy defeats Offaly have suffered this year will surely mean complaints about this die down. I really doubt big hammerings against Dublin and Wexford is better for Offaly hurling than tight games against Antrim and Laois. Hopefully they go well in the McDonagh next year and maybe are in a better position to take on the stronger sides in a preliminary quarter final.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 03/06/2018 16:52:58    2106856

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Campaign now starts in earnest to keep Offaly up despite getting hammered in every match.

Almost silly at this stage. If it was Westmeath or Carlow they would have us down in a flash but the top 10 must be protected at all costs.

If Offaly don't get relegated this year then why should anyone get relegated any year.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 03/06/2018 18:05:39    2106928

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Replying To carlovia:  "Campaign now starts in earnest to keep Offaly up despite getting hammered in every match.

Almost silly at this stage. If it was Westmeath or Carlow they would have us down in a flash but the top 10 must be protected at all costs.

If Offaly don't get relegated this year then why should anyone get relegated any year."
Carlovia

I think Offaly would struggle to win the 2nd Tier, it's very competitive.

Either way they are not a top tier county. Wicklow are in the Christy Ring and that is our level.

So much delusion these days.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 03/06/2018 19:51:53    2107008

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Replying To sponger:  "Carlovia

I think Offaly would struggle to win the 2nd Tier, it's very competitive.

Either way they are not a top tier county. Wicklow are in the Christy Ring and that is our level.

So much delusion these days."
I'm not having a go at Offaly. My problem is with the system that keeps the same 10 teams in a cosy club.

The people who want a 6 team leinster next year won't care if Westmeath, Carlow or Antrim are relegated but they want to change the rules every time for one of the top ten.

And Offaly got hammered in every game.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 03/06/2018 22:29:14    2107085

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Replying To carlovia:  "I'm not having a go at Offaly. My problem is with the system that keeps the same 10 teams in a cosy club.

The people who want a 6 team leinster next year won't care if Westmeath, Carlow or Antrim are relegated but they want to change the rules every time for one of the top ten.

And Offaly got hammered in every game."
Old format was ok as relegation was to a round robin and you were still in lenister champship, gave every team in leinster a chance to play and qualify to play top teams.
Lucky this format was not around in the 1970's or offally would not of made the break through of their super teams of the 80s and 90s and allso the only two competitive teams in munster at that time were cork and limerick..

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/06/2018 09:23:15    2107151

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Replying To Skippy2:  "Not a bad idea. To really move foward I think we need 12 teams in it. Two groups of 6 in an open draw. Top 2 in each group into semi-finals. Bottom team in each group go down to be replaced by Joe Mc Donagh finalists. Leinster and Munster could be played as a separate competition with no bearing on the Liam Mac Carthy. You would get a great mix of games every year and losing 2 games would probably mean your out. Could be started in May and easily finished in August with 2 weeks between game's. Every team guaranteed 5 games ."
Thats a load of rubbish there is not 10 teams that are fit to play in the Liam McCarthy ....9 at a push are good enough and entitled to compete. The reality is that OFFaly or whoever wins the Joe McDonagh will the the yoyo 10th team in the Leinster Championship for next few years

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 04/06/2018 09:47:47    2107163

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But Mc Donagh cup is an excellent standard......Offaly would do well to beat Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Laois etc all in the one season......not sure they would be honest, this could well be best thing for them.......allow them to regroup , come out if a tough competition in the Mc Donagh cup and then get a game v a third placed provincial team.......not sure why people are complaining about that, feels more beneficial than being tanked in almost every game they played

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 04/06/2018 09:50:58    2107164

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "But Mc Donagh cup is an excellent standard......Offaly would do well to beat Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Laois etc all in the one season......not sure they would be honest, this could well be best thing for them.......allow them to regroup , come out if a tough competition in the Mc Donagh cup and then get a game v a third placed provincial team.......not sure why people are complaining about that, feels more beneficial than being tanked in almost every game they played"
Munster has to stay as is, 5 good teams with great games this week end,
Mcdonagh cup should be a qualifier for leinster as the round robin was

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/06/2018 10:10:11    2107170

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Replying To Skippy2:  "Not a bad idea. To really move foward I think we need 12 teams in it. Two groups of 6 in an open draw. Top 2 in each group into semi-finals. Bottom team in each group go down to be replaced by Joe Mc Donagh finalists. Leinster and Munster could be played as a separate competition with no bearing on the Liam Mac Carthy. You would get a great mix of games every year and losing 2 games would probably mean your out. Could be started in May and easily finished in August with 2 weeks between game's. Every team guaranteed 5 games ."
That ludicrous idea to have Galway in Munster would make the Munster championship better than the All Ireland. As it stands the Munster Championship is probably already better than the All Ireland series.

PeggyShippen (Limerick) - Posts: 300 - 04/06/2018 10:10:29    2107171

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Replying To tonydoranfan:  "Old format was ok as relegation was to a round robin and you were still in lenister champship, gave every team in leinster a chance to play and qualify to play top teams.
Lucky this format was not around in the 1970's or offally would not of made the break through of their super teams of the 80s and 90s and allso the only two competitive teams in munster at that time were cork and limerick.."
If McCarthy was expanded to 12 teams the McDonagh Cup would be unviable. The remnants would have to be incorporated into the Ring competition.

A 12 team competition would lead to awful mismatches under the present system. I don't doubt that Westmeath, Carlow, or whoever gets promoted from McDonagh this year, are capable of giving Galway/KK/Wexford or Dublin a tough encounter in a one off game but when they would have to play all 4 of them in consecutive weeks they would struggle after the first game. That essentially was Offaly's main problem this year. They played well enough in the first 2 games but then fell away. The new format favours the strong counties with big panels and quality substitutes but for teams like Offaly, Westmeath etc who may have 10 or 12 really good hurlers only, the deeper they have to go into their squads the more they will inevitably struggle.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 04/06/2018 10:28:45    2107179

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Replying To PeggyShippen:  "That ludicrous idea to have Galway in Munster would make the Munster championship better than the All Ireland. As it stands the Munster Championship is probably already better than the All Ireland series."
How??? If limerick win munster and dont win all ireland will they be happy??? Only reason munster is competitive is that the 5 teams are of an equal average standard!!! Galway will wipe them out come all ireland as kilkenny did for the last 20 years.

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/06/2018 10:30:15    2107181

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "But Mc Donagh cup is an excellent standard......Offaly would do well to beat Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Laois etc all in the one season......not sure they would be honest, this could well be best thing for them.......allow them to regroup , come out if a tough competition in the Mc Donagh cup and then get a game v a third placed provincial team.......not sure why people are complaining about that, feels more beneficial than being tanked in almost every game they played"
And the top 2 in the mcdonagh cup get back into the all Ireland series so Offaly can rebuild at their level.

If they are good enough then they will get back up.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 04/06/2018 10:34:02    2107186

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Replying To Brownepat:  "Thats a load of rubbish there is not 10 teams that are fit to play in the Liam McCarthy ....9 at a push are good enough and entitled to compete. The reality is that OFFaly or whoever wins the Joe McDonagh will the the yoyo 10th team in the Leinster Championship for next few years"
So do what. Have a nine team all Ireland and close the door on the rest. Every competition has strong and weak teams. That's the nature of it. That's the attitude that got us here in the first place.

Skippy2 (Carlow) - Posts: 61 - 04/06/2018 10:44:11    2107196

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Replying To Skippy2:  "So do what. Have a nine team all Ireland and close the door on the rest. Every competition has strong and weak teams. That's the nature of it. That's the attitude that got us here in the first place."
Offaly will be back but relegation will not help their case!!!!
Look at tipp in the 70s and 80s disappeared fo nearly 20 years, should they of been through out of munster??? Where were clare and waterford for the 30 years before they became strong competitive counties again!!
Carlow westmeath laois antrim kerry need a chance to join the top table as offally did in 81, wexford in 56, galway in 80 and clare in 95..
Down meath and kildare have proud hurling men and will step up if given hope.
Mcdonagh cup is a great competition but really has to be a round robin qualifier for Leinster.
If there was relegation 10 years ago my own county would of played in it and what harm only have the children in the county would of walked from gaa and thats a fact!!!!!

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/06/2018 11:13:31    2107217

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Loughnane and Cummins got it bang on last night. Offaly are not good enough at the moment. They got 4 chances to prove that they are and they failed on each occasion. They are also right in their assessment that mcdonagh cup is their current level, that it's a very good competition and that it allows a management team get their conditioning right, build a squad, build confidence and get to play in a final in Croke Park and in a preliminary quarter final of McCarthy cup if they are good enough. Hurling , like all sports, has to be merit based if it's to grow.

Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 04/06/2018 11:53:44    2107236

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