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Tyrone in 00s v Dublin in the 10s

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Replying To clondalkindub: "Tohill what a player up their with the greats if not the greatest on his own outstanding Gaelic Footballer had it all as you said. But for any poster to dismiss Brian Fenton right now is just plain wrong I've never seen anything like Fenton he is unbelievable for Dublin along with Kilkenny our most important out field player he's a class act as good imo as anything I've seen the last 25 years (as far back as I can remember)" For sure. Totally agree. Fenton is immense and already up there amongst the best. Tohill was just another level above them all though. Massive physicality with speed and mobility. I remember seeing Kevin Walsh, a big man by Amy measure really struggling to hold him. Tohill was huge but all frame and muscle if you look at a picture of him and angular in shape as opposed to blocky which can hold back mobility and usually be conducive to putting on a few pounds! I doubt I'll ever see a midfielder near as good as him, just don't think it's possible. Kilkenny is superb and one of the main men for Dublin. General, playmaker amd scorer and constant motion. Up there with Dublins best of King Bernard, Connolly, Cluxton, McCarty and Cooper. John Small to join them! DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 28/04/2018 22:13:53 2095539 Link
Replying To DonegalAtlantic: "For sure. Totally agree. Fenton is immense and already up there amongst the best. Tohill was just another level above them all though. Massive physicality with speed and mobility. I remember seeing Kevin Walsh, a big man by Amy measure really struggling to hold him. Tohill was huge but all frame and muscle if you look at a picture of him and angular in shape as opposed to blocky which can hold back mobility and usually be conducive to putting on a few pounds! I doubt I'll ever see a midfielder near as good as him, just don't think it's possible. Kilkenny is superb and one of the main men for Dublin. General, playmaker amd scorer and constant motion. Up there with Dublins best of King Bernard, Connolly, Cluxton, McCarty and Cooper. John Small to join them!" Ya tohill was brilliant all right, I got to see him play in a few league games back in the day, it was nearly unnatural the way such a big guy could move so fluidly and kick off both feet and I'd definitely put him up there with the great jack o'shea. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 29/04/2018 11:33:57 2095568 Link
I've been lucky to met Jack O'Shea a few times now and even got his autograph when I was a young fella probably in the mid 80's. A nice man. Although he sure got his evaluation of Kilkenny slightly wrong! Although who knows perhaps Kilkenny took it as constructive criticism and used it as motivation. In my professional life I've always found constructive criticism to be more beneficial than praise. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 29/04/2018 12:21:14 2095569 Link
Browncows Fair play you're entitled to your opinion But did you take into account that a weaker Mayo side beat Tyrone in 2004 when you came to the conclusion that the current Mayo side would "definitely not" beat Tyrone in the 00's? jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 29/04/2018 15:21:27 2095586 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "I've been lucky to met Jack O'Shea a few times now and even got his autograph when I was a young fella probably in the mid 80's. A nice man. Although he sure got his evaluation of Kilkenny slightly wrong! Although who knows perhaps Kilkenny took it as constructive criticism and used it as motivation. In my professional life I've always found constructive criticism to be more beneficial than praise." Ah sure life is full of opinions jim, we all have them and even though I don't agree with yours and you don't agree with mine who's to say there right or wrong (even though i know I'm right) :-) I'm sure if jacko was asked about Kilkenny today he's opinion could be different. personally I like Kilkenny he's a fine athlete although he does get away with taking a lot of steps but that's up to the officials to pull. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 29/04/2018 16:51:45 2095592 Link
This Dublin team are excellent would they beat Tyrone no That Tyrone team were of the tougher variety Dublin would find it more difficult to get scores i would have to go for Tyrone wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 29/04/2018 18:48:04 2095603 Link
Replying To DonegalAtlantic: "For sure. Totally agree. Fenton is immense and already up there amongst the best. Tohill was just another level above them all though. Massive physicality with speed and mobility. I remember seeing Kevin Walsh, a big man by Amy measure really struggling to hold him. Tohill was huge but all frame and muscle if you look at a picture of him and angular in shape as opposed to blocky which can hold back mobility and usually be conducive to putting on a few pounds! I doubt I'll ever see a midfielder near as good as him, just don't think it's possible. Kilkenny is superb and one of the main men for Dublin. General, playmaker amd scorer and constant motion. Up there with Dublins best of King Bernard, Connolly, Cluxton, McCarty and Cooper. John Small to join them!" Of course Fenton being half a Kerry man helps him immensely in his football. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 29/04/2018 18:51:49 2095606 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Browncows Fair play you're entitled to your opinion But did you take into account that a weaker Mayo side beat Tyrone in 2004 when you came to the conclusion that the current Mayo side would "definitely not" beat Tyrone in the 00's?" Jim There were a few mitigating circumstances for that Tyrone team in 04. You have to take that into consideration. The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 29/04/2018 21:00:18 2095623 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Of course Fenton being half a Kerry man helps him immensely in his football." Is there anything on any front you folk don't claim?! I remember a similar comment from you months ago saying someone's football "was of Kerry" so it was no surprise he was good, or something to that effect. I don't hear Galway folk on here with similar comments re Ciaran Kilkenny or Kevin Mc Menamin. When Kerry bailed themselves out of tight corners over the years it was half a Tyrone man that usually done it for them in Donaghy! DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 29/04/2018 22:53:52 2095639 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "Jim There were a few mitigating circumstances for that Tyrone team in 04. You have to take that into consideration." The Fridge Tyrone were a brilliant side.. But yiz did have some really boom and bust years in there with some strange results that didn't reflect your previous season Not the most consistent I can remember Louth getting a draw in there too Just think it's a bit weak to suggest that the current Dublin or Mayo sides couldn't have beaten Tyrone when a number of lesser sides were able to do it perfectly well across the 00's. Tyrone had some poor years in the mix where they were very beatable. As was proven. With posters saying it with such conviction is very questionable in my book and doesn't reflect the results. No assumptions needed when you simply look at the stats and Tyrones poor years mixed in with 03,05,08 Personally with the way teams setup now to counter the swarm/counter attack I'm confident it would greatly negate Tyrone's tactical advantage that they enjoyed in the 00's. As Sean said himself after playing Dublin in 2017 "That's the best team I've ever played against" I'd say he'd have a better take on things compared to Gormley. Sean walked the walk.. Gormley talks the talk. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 30/04/2018 12:08:39 2095693 Link
Tyrone did well to win 3 All-Irelands in a very competitive era when a lot of matches could not be taken for granted. In May 2002 Tyrone and Armagh had played two great matches in the Ulster Championship which Armagh edged and went onto win the All-Ireland. In May 2003 in the PR of the Ulster Championship the All-Ireland holders were beaten by Monaghan while a week later Tyrone in the successful year of 2003 scrapped a draw against Derry in the first round before being given the fright of their lives in the Ulster Final by Down. In 2004 the All-Ireland Champions were knocked out of Ulster by Donegal after battling past Derry and Fermanagh. 2005 saw Tyrone and Armagh clash twice in the Ulster Final before meeting again in one of the games of the decade in the All-Ireland Semi-final. In May 2006 the All-Ireland holders were beaten in the first round of Ulster by Derry. This was nothing new in the 1990,s All-Ireland winners Down, Donegal, Derry and Down could not get out of Ulster the following year. Mayo could easily lose to Galway for the third year in a row in the West but a lot of people would still rate Mayo the better team overall and one who would have a better chance of winning the All-Ireland. Tyrone have to be ready for Monaghan in May or they will be going out of the Ulster Championship. The last Leinster All-Ireland winners to be knocked out in Leinster the following year were Meath in 2000 by Offaly. While Cork and Kerry battle it out in Munster the last time I recall the All-Ireland winners losing in Munster before the final were Cork in 1991. The Kerry squad of 2000-2009 were a great team and the Dublin team of this era are a great team but the problems, opponents and preparation they face are different. Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 30/04/2018 13:08:38 2095716 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "The Fridge Tyrone were a brilliant side.. But yiz did have some really boom and bust years in there with some strange results that didn't reflect your previous season Not the most consistent I can remember Louth getting a draw in there too Just think it's a bit weak to suggest that the current Dublin or Mayo sides couldn't have beaten Tyrone when a number of lesser sides were able to do it perfectly well across the 00's. Tyrone had some poor years in the mix where they were very beatable. As was proven. With posters saying it with such conviction is very questionable in my book and doesn't reflect the results. No assumptions needed when you simply look at the stats and Tyrones poor years mixed in with 03,05,08 Personally with the way teams setup now to counter the swarm/counter attack I'm confident it would greatly negate Tyrone's tactical advantage that they enjoyed in the 00's. As Sean said himself after playing Dublin in 2017 "That's the best team I've ever played against" I'd say he'd have a better take on things compared to Gormley. Sean walked the walk.. Gormley talks the talk." Again Jim, no one is disagreeing with you, however 2004 was a very tough year for Tyrone and it was no great surprise they were beat early. They bounced back in 05 to show the team they really were luckily enough The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 30/04/2018 15:08:06 2095737 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "Again Jim, no one is disagreeing with you, however 2004 was a very tough year for Tyrone and it was no great surprise they were beat early. They bounced back in 05 to show the team they really were luckily enough" Tough year cause they won Sam for the first time and obviously celebrated heavy after which is fair enough anything else is just an excuse. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 30/04/2018 15:32:29 2095740 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Tough year cause they won Sam for the first time and obviously celebrated heavy after which is fair enough anything else is just an excuse." Cormac McAnnallan MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 30/04/2018 15:36:31 2095741 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "Cormac McAnnallan" An excuse. I have this before with someone. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 30/04/2018 16:13:30 2095746 Link
The Dubs in the 10's. LeftHalfBack10 (Mayo) - Posts: 30 - 30/04/2018 17:01:36 2095760 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "An excuse. I have this before with someone." I'm certainly not getting into that debate with you. If that's your thoughts on that so be it. The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 30/04/2018 17:18:44 2095765 Link
Listen that was an out and out terrible thing to happen. Young people passing away suddenly always is. We sadly had our own tragedy. It's always a tragic loss. But what was at fault in 02, 06, 07, 09 and 10 if you want to include it I'm discussing sporting performance Tyrone had plenty of other games where they were way off their previous high notes seen in the 00's and fair enough if you want to highlight that as a reason in 04 but obviously the team came together and moved on as much as they could. I'm merely highlighting that there is plenty of scope to counter an unfounded assumption that the current Dublin/Mayo squads wouldnt have beaten Tyrone, it's obvious that they had plenty of room to beat Tyrone in the 00's. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 30/04/2018 19:27:05 2095791 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "Again Jim, no one is disagreeing with you, however 2004 was a very tough year for Tyrone and it was no great surprise they were beat early. They bounced back in 05 to show the team they really were luckily enough" Not the only year they were beaten early in the 00's though jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 30/04/2018 20:46:09 2095806 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Tough year cause they won Sam for the first time and obviously celebrated heavy after which is fair enough anything else is just an excuse." For a team to lose their Captain and one who was such an inspirational player to those around him especially in those circumstances is going to have a huge effect on any team, throw in the fact this was the first time they had won Sam and this was all new made it even harder. They showed how good a team they were by refocusing and winning in 2005. If it happened to us what would you be saying. To say it was an excuse is ignorant to say the least. AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 30/04/2018 23:36:29 2095851 Link