National Forum

"There Are Signs Of An Agenda Against Tyrone"

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"I would love somebody to challenge it because it needs to be challenged," the Errigal Ciaran man, who hasn't spoken to RTE since 2011, is quoted saying by the Donegal Democrat.

"There are signs of an agenda against Tyrone where there is just continuous talk of how many people we have behind the ball.

"And I have watched many matches and I see the very same thing happening to other teams yet the count isn't on always.

"So maybe all those people who are making all those comments relentlessly might need to take a step back and see are they really independent thinkers or are they just having other people think for them."

Yes Mickey, it is always someone else's fault.

No I don't have other people think for me. I can see for myself thank you. This condescending attitude is really starting to get me and a lot of others Tyrone supporters angry now.

Whether you like it or not, Dublin, Mayo and the current Donegal and Kerry teams play a lot more expansive and attractive type of football than Tyrone. We are extremely hard to watch playing the way we do.

There is no hidden agenda. It is just fact!

Maybe stop trying to convince everyone that we don't really know what we are watching and possibly try to start listening to your piers and fellow county men and for gods sake let our players actually play football.

We have some of the most talented players in the country at our disposal, backed up with one of the best set-ups that any county has, yet we are now losing full generations of players to this horrible system.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 475 - 15/02/2018 11:52:16    2077024

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Replying To Wally:  ""I would love somebody to challenge it because it needs to be challenged," the Errigal Ciaran man, who hasn't spoken to RTE since 2011, is quoted saying by the Donegal Democrat.

"There are signs of an agenda against Tyrone where there is just continuous talk of how many people we have behind the ball.

"And I have watched many matches and I see the very same thing happening to other teams yet the count isn't on always.

"So maybe all those people who are making all those comments relentlessly might need to take a step back and see are they really independent thinkers or are they just having other people think for them."

Yes Mickey, it is always someone else's fault.

No I don't have other people think for me. I can see for myself thank you. This condescending attitude is really starting to get me and a lot of others Tyrone supporters angry now.

Whether you like it or not, Dublin, Mayo and the current Donegal and Kerry teams play a lot more expansive and attractive type of football than Tyrone. We are extremely hard to watch playing the way we do.

There is no hidden agenda. It is just fact!

Maybe stop trying to convince everyone that we don't really know what we are watching and possibly try to start listening to your piers and fellow county men and for gods sake let our players actually play football.

We have some of the most talented players in the country at our disposal, backed up with one of the best set-ups that any county has, yet we are now losing full generations of players to this horrible system."
Not too many of the current team would get on the 03 05 or 08 teams. Tyrone just do not have the players to win sam. They are a decent team in ulster. But ulster is weak at the moment. Not sure if it would any difference if you removed harte

Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 362 - 15/02/2018 12:14:16    2077034

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Mickey Harte sounds like Jose Mourinho tbh..

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 15/02/2018 12:25:01    2077043

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Replying To Bernardo:  "Not too many of the current team would get on the 03 05 or 08 teams. Tyrone just do not have the players to win sam. They are a decent team in ulster. But ulster is weak at the moment. Not sure if it would any difference if you removed harte"
Yeah I would take this line pretty much. I seen them play Meath 2 years ago,they looked well drilled and every player knew what they were doing. But I don't think they have outstanding talent tbh.
But a new manager could freshen them up,on the other hand they could get worse.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 15/02/2018 12:28:05    2077046

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Unfortunately it is going to take a 2017 type year that we in Donegal had to force change at the top in Tyrone. Otherwise the denial will continue each year and blame will be rested absolutely everywhere except on the system.

It is very difficult for players to do this year in year out. Although I don't think Tyrone will get hammered the way we did last year, I think they will eventually get beaten by either Dublin or Kerry in a very one sided game. That would be almost as bad imo.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3385 - 15/02/2018 12:34:24    2077051

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Replying To Bernardo:  "Not too many of the current team would get on the 03 05 or 08 teams. Tyrone just do not have the players to win sam. They are a decent team in ulster. But ulster is weak at the moment. Not sure if it would any difference if you removed harte"
That's just not true.

I am sick of people saying we don't have the players when our players have been given almost no opportunity to play.

I will admit we don't have a Peter Canavan or Stephen O'Neill anymore but they were a once in a lifetime type player.

But our players are every bit as good as those in Mayo and they should really have beaten this current Dublin team in 3 All Ireland Finals.

The difference between them and us is the fact that they commit totally to the attack, they show no respect to their opposition and they trust in their own ability.

We have a management team so restricted by fear and so obsessed with an outdated system that the country now thinks our players are a lot poorer than they actually are.

I guarantee that if we adopted an approach similar to Mayo or the current Kerry and Donegal teams that we wouldn't be far away at the end of the year, plus our players may actually start enjoy playing and our supporters may actually be treated to some proper football.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 475 - 15/02/2018 12:35:58    2077052

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I don't think this agenda is making Tyrone kick so many poor wides.

Some of which are sort of criminal at this level.. as I've seen two years on the bounce in the league against Dublin

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18699 - 15/02/2018 12:45:00    2077058

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He is right though. Watch Kerry, Dublin, Mayo etc and they all flood players back. I saw a clip from the recent league game between Tyrone & Dublin and every player was inside their own 45. The difference between Tyrone and the Dublin and Kerrys is they don't have that player that will always put the ball over the bar. They don't have a clutch type player that you know will produce the goods. The QF against Mayo two years ago is the perfect example. Better side, numerous chances to win that game but how many wides did they hit. McCurry, Ronan O'Neill and from what I've seen of Brennan have the potential to be world beaters but when the pressure is on they choke. Tyrone scored 6-77 in 4 games last year before they played Dublin. 6-77 That's more than 1-20 per game if my maths is right over those 4 games. Tyrone aren't a defensive side in that they don't attack, Tyrone are a side that don't have any clutch players and that is the problem facing Tyrone. Until they get that player that can slot the ball over the bar in a tight game they aren't going anywhere in a hurry.

Mickey Harte is 100% spot on when he says there is an agenda here. Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 15/02/2018 12:48:09    2077062

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Tyrone are not too far away, but they are a bit predictable and certainly need some sparkle like they had in the noughties. Harte has a point about other teams also having men behind the ball though but can't see that there is a campaign against them. Lots of teams are criticised.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1769 - 15/02/2018 12:49:59    2077063

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Replying To kerrykerry:  "Tyrone are not too far away, but they are a bit predictable and certainly need some sparkle like they had in the noughties. Harte has a point about other teams also having men behind the ball though but can't see that there is a campaign against them. Lots of teams are criticised."
There are about 7 different topics that journalists revisit when paper sales are slow. Tyrone system or Tyrone discipline are 2 of them. It doesn't matter if they are true or not, if it sells then it will be given all the attention.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3385 - 15/02/2018 13:02:52    2077067

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Tyrone do not have the forwards to break the top three of Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. I would take them to beat any other team by spreading the scores around but I cannot see an All-Ireland this year.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1507 - 15/02/2018 13:20:45    2077078

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Replying To Wally:  "That's just not true.

I am sick of people saying we don't have the players when our players have been given almost no opportunity to play.

I will admit we don't have a Peter Canavan or Stephen O'Neill anymore but they were a once in a lifetime type player.

But our players are every bit as good as those in Mayo and they should really have beaten this current Dublin team in 3 All Ireland Finals.

The difference between them and us is the fact that they commit totally to the attack, they show no respect to their opposition and they trust in their own ability.

We have a management team so restricted by fear and so obsessed with an outdated system that the country now thinks our players are a lot poorer than they actually are.

I guarantee that if we adopted an approach similar to Mayo or the current Kerry and Donegal teams that we wouldn't be far away at the end of the year, plus our players may actually start enjoy playing and our supporters may actually be treated to some proper football."
Great players/teams win regardless of the system. If Tyrone had a forward line capable of winning an All Ireland it would do so even with MH's system. Tyrone people need to wake up and smell the coffee, they are within the top 4 or 5 teams in the country and a good distance ahead of most counties. However they are nowhere near the top table and will not win Sam in the next decade. I would argue MH has them sort of competitive and is getting every inch of success from an average group of players. He simply cannot compete with Dublin or Mayo. Yes have a change but that run's the risk of falling down further.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 340 - 15/02/2018 14:04:22    2077098

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Replying To gotmilk:  "He is right though. Watch Kerry, Dublin, Mayo etc and they all flood players back. I saw a clip from the recent league game between Tyrone & Dublin and every player was inside their own 45. The difference between Tyrone and the Dublin and Kerrys is they don't have that player that will always put the ball over the bar. They don't have a clutch type player that you know will produce the goods. The QF against Mayo two years ago is the perfect example. Better side, numerous chances to win that game but how many wides did they hit. McCurry, Ronan O'Neill and from what I've seen of Brennan have the potential to be world beaters but when the pressure is on they choke. Tyrone scored 6-77 in 4 games last year before they played Dublin. 6-77 That's more than 1-20 per game if my maths is right over those 4 games. Tyrone aren't a defensive side in that they don't attack, Tyrone are a side that don't have any clutch players and that is the problem facing Tyrone. Until they get that player that can slot the ball over the bar in a tight game they aren't going anywhere in a hurry.

Mickey Harte is 100% spot on when he says there is an agenda here. Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists."
Agree with all this

Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts: 11509 - 15/02/2018 14:24:24    2077105

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Replying To sam1884:  "Great players/teams win regardless of the system. If Tyrone had a forward line capable of winning an All Ireland it would do so even with MH's system. Tyrone people need to wake up and smell the coffee, they are within the top 4 or 5 teams in the country and a good distance ahead of most counties. However they are nowhere near the top table and will not win Sam in the next decade. I would argue MH has them sort of competitive and is getting every inch of success from an average group of players. He simply cannot compete with Dublin or Mayo. Yes have a change but that run's the risk of falling down further."
Mickey Hartes system is the exact same as Jim Gavins system at Dublin.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 15/02/2018 14:30:27    2077109

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tyrone simply dont have the forwards, and mayo have better players than tyrone

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2152 - 15/02/2018 14:42:37    2077114

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I would like to see Tyrone in Division 4. Chucky Armagh!

Dessie_Cross (Armagh) - Posts: 120 - 15/02/2018 14:50:05    2077115

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Replying To gotmilk:  "Mickey Hartes system is the exact same as Jim Gavins system at Dublin."
That may be true to a certain extent. However not completly the same as Dublin have a forward line that can do damage. The problem Tyrone have is the players most likely to score play in the half back line and are so defensive minded they will only have one or two options against the big teams. Yes the pace and power breaking through blows most teams away but the teams they need to beat to win the All Ireland are sitting back laughing at them. Dublin have a defensive screen but MH is wrong to suggest it is not all defence - that is not the case. Sit on the higher decks of Croke Park and look at the amount of Dublin players in the half forward line to midfield area when they turn the ball over. At least 4 with 6 or 7 running down the channels. Dublin mind the house but have an attacking game plan to go with it. Put Tyrone up against a good team and they hardly even have a defensive plan - they are like robots!

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 340 - 15/02/2018 15:13:15    2077122

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Replying To gotmilk:  "He is right though. Watch Kerry, Dublin, Mayo etc and they all flood players back. I saw a clip from the recent league game between Tyrone & Dublin and every player was inside their own 45. The difference between Tyrone and the Dublin and Kerrys is they don't have that player that will always put the ball over the bar. They don't have a clutch type player that you know will produce the goods. The QF against Mayo two years ago is the perfect example. Better side, numerous chances to win that game but how many wides did they hit. McCurry, Ronan O'Neill and from what I've seen of Brennan have the potential to be world beaters but when the pressure is on they choke. Tyrone scored 6-77 in 4 games last year before they played Dublin. 6-77 That's more than 1-20 per game if my maths is right over those 4 games. Tyrone aren't a defensive side in that they don't attack, Tyrone are a side that don't have any clutch players and that is the problem facing Tyrone. Until they get that player that can slot the ball over the bar in a tight game they aren't going anywhere in a hurry.

Mickey Harte is 100% spot on when he says there is an agenda here. Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists."
A 'clutch player' is a new term for me. What does it mean and how did it originate?. On the Harte debate, I think he has the players to play a more expansive game but he doesn't believe in them. Donegal have made the change to a more attack minded game and so could Tyrone. I don' think there is any agenda against Hart's teams but many believe that he could 'take' the top teams if he gave his players more freedom.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1400 - 15/02/2018 15:18:17    2077126

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I think Tyrone need to change the colours on their jerseys, white or red can seem deceptive when putting 15 behind the ball, they stand out a mile but if you are wearing sky blue, green and red, green or gold, maroon, white and blue etc those colours blend into the grass and you can't see them putting 15 behind the ball even though you can see it clearly, sugar there must be something wrong with our eyesight, yes Tyrone are not the only team putting 15 behind the ball, nearly every team is doing it, I think this all boils down to Sean Cavanagh dragging down Conor McManus in front of the goals and Joe Brolly calling him a cheat on RTE even though every player in any sport would do the same to avoid giving away a goal, he nor RTE ever apologised for it, that was bad enough but the comments he made about Marty Morrissey meant he should have got his P45, that along with Ciaran Wallop Whelan's comments about Lee Keegan and trying to influence a ref on national TV while being paid by the national broadcaster before an All Ireland Final replay was disgraceful, both should have been sacked, after last Sunday TV programme Tomas O'Se isn't too far behind them

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1295 - 15/02/2018 15:22:35    2077127

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Replying To sam1884:  "That may be true to a certain extent. However not completly the same as Dublin have a forward line that can do damage. The problem Tyrone have is the players most likely to score play in the half back line and are so defensive minded they will only have one or two options against the big teams. Yes the pace and power breaking through blows most teams away but the teams they need to beat to win the All Ireland are sitting back laughing at them. Dublin have a defensive screen but MH is wrong to suggest it is not all defence - that is not the case. Sit on the higher decks of Croke Park and look at the amount of Dublin players in the half forward line to midfield area when they turn the ball over. At least 4 with 6 or 7 running down the channels. Dublin mind the house but have an attacking game plan to go with it. Put Tyrone up against a good team and they hardly even have a defensive plan - they are like robots!"
Take a look at their game against Tyrone and tell me how many players didn't defend in their own half.

However not completly the same as Dublin have a forward line that can do damage. That statement has just proven that you agree with me. Play the same system but Dublin just have better tools.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 15/02/2018 15:25:51    2077130

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