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Professor Niall Moyna says Dublin are too dominant

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must say the lads writing to mackenna on twitter are an embarrassment, makes normal fans look bad alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 31/01/2018 22:12:05 2072928 Link
Replying To Rohanhorsemaste: "maybe if Cork put the million s it got and raised into Game development rather than the " white Elephant" that is PUC they be better off. I 've yet to hear a county board official cone out and say something about the funding . There is a reason why they don't. It's the lack of accountability and trust from Croke park of county boards and how they ate e's. Were kildare not bailed out recently along with Offaly and their inability to pay for O Connor park.?" Kildare are turning a profit these days and maybe these things wouldn't happen if counties were being underfunded. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/01/2018 22:17:29 2072929 Link
Replying To kildare73: "Why is the "per registered player" argument rubbish? I'd love to hear why. I purposely didn't bring sponsorship into this because I 100% agree with you, if you raise it you should keep it and I didn't see anyone one on here saying any different so again, that's deflection. This debate is about how Central funding is distributed. Can you calibrate these "millions" Dublin make for the rest? A game in Croke Park with 25k to 30k at it is hardly making millions for anybody by the time costs are taken out. The GAA used to say they needed 35,000 at Croke Park to cover itself. I don't think the Spring Series is bulging the coffers that much. I know Dublin fans will be defensive about all this and that's fair enough..........but so is equality in funding." Because games development money goes to attract participants to Galiec games at schools level and Cul camps etc to attract people to play Gailic games and in the future support them, not to fund those already members of the association, honestly people don't know what games development money is used for. I honestly think many on here think it's handed over to the senior, minor or U21 teams. What Dublin spend the games development in all online, I bet no one has even looked. Funding as always is skewed for example, Kerry have received funding of 9 mill euros from the GAA and state for their to facilities under development. Mayo improvement to McHale Park had to be ultimately funded by the GAA five million, Park Ui Coaimbhe, 10s of millions. That's all on top of games development and provincial council funding (Dublin don't receive) annually. It's a simple argument just focusing on game development money, it's an aspect of GAA funding. But it's not the total. If anyone wants to talk about funding, post cumlitive figures on funding grants in infrastructure, development money, fundraising, provincal council funding. I bet many from some counties shouting the loudest here won't. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 22:29:43 2072933 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Like it's always been folks It's never been fair Dubs will always have more. They even had that when they weren't winning! Dublin has the largest population so deserves the largest amount of funding. Now fair enough the GAA have taken steps to lessen that now. But if that's the case there is no fecking way a single hard earned sponsorship cent should be shared to dysfunctional County Boards who have only proven that they can't be trusted with money. There's a reason why the GAA doesn't throw money at anyone that wants it.. because they don't trust them. Put a strategic plan in place and prove that it can be run within budget and every cent is accounted for as it is in Dublin. Until that happens... dream on fella's. This is the real world..." I wouldn't worry to much, about the cut in funding mate. We will just move into the "fund raising" market, see how a few like some competition in that space, I suspect we are far more attractive in that market then some others. Also the A.I.G. deal is up very shortly and a New Jersey coming before the summer. All good clean fun. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 22:33:16 2072934 Link
You are missing the point Username, the AIG and other sponsors money should be funding the majority of the underage setup rather than fund a professional IC setup which inevitably will beat an amateur one 99 times out of 100 If Dublin funded their own underage coaching setup (as they can easily afford to do so) they would be on a much leveller playing field in terms of preparation with their competitors but it seems there is no interest in Croke Park for fairness.................... 37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 102 - 31/01/2018 22:38:24 2072935 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I wouldn't worry to much, about the cut in funding mate. We will just move into the "fund raising" market, see how a few like some competition in that space, I suspect we are far more attractive in that market then some others. Also the A.I.G. deal is up very shortly and a New Jersey coming before the summer. All good clean fun." Dublin are already well in the fundraising market. That's not even in question. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/01/2018 22:50:38 2072939 Link
Replying To Rohanhorsemaste: "maybe if Cork put the million s it got and raised into Game development rather than the " white Elephant" that is PUC they be better off. I 've yet to hear a county board official cone out and say something about the funding . There is a reason why they don't. It's the lack of accountability and trust from Croke park of county boards and how they ate e's. Were kildare not bailed out recently along with Offaly and their inability to pay for O Connor park.?" This is a good point, and yes, millions no doubt has been wasted on vanity projects and general profligacy by CB's over the years. That's not a good enough reason to maintain the status quo though. There needs to be a rebalancing of funds but the aim should be to bring the chasing pack up to somewhere approaching Dublin's level rather than dismantling what Dublin have. Ideally what you would do is insist on (and part fund) a professional standard development plan with strict KPI's and relevant training for officials for any county that wants increased funding, and maintain a rigorous audit trail for the money with heavy penalties for any blackguarding. Croke Park can well afford to put proper oversight in place. The question then of course is where does the money come from to pay for the implementation on the ground. Dublin will vehemently resist any meaningful cut in their development funding and there isn't enough money to replicate their system elsewhere. It's a conundrum for the GAA. I do not believe that they want Dublin to dominate forever. A competitive championship is good for everyone, and counties like Galway, Cork, Kildare, Meath, Armagh and others need to believe they can win the big prize, as they have done in the past. That's not a realistic goal for them at the moment and we are seeing high profile players like Jamie Clarke and more recently McHugh turn away from the game due to the commitment required in a game that is now effectively professional, and probably in part due to the fact that they know they have no hope of an All Ireland medal in a system stacked against them. Something needs to change, and Dubs can scoff and say nobody was complaining when they were rubbish, but they get such a huge share of the available resources that it is bound to come under scrutiny. Also the argument that money doesn't make players kick the ball over the bar in All Ireland finals etc is hilarious. Why then do professional sports teams the world over pump millions into sports academies, sports science and player development? High level coaching at a young age makes an enormous difference to player development. Ideally every child in the country should have this if they want it but that's not realistic. The best we can do is try to allocate what is there fairly. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 31/01/2018 22:50:54 2072940 Link
Replying To 37thHeaven: "You are missing the point Username, the AIG and other sponsors money should be funding the majority of the underage setup rather than fund a professional IC setup which inevitably will beat an amateur one 99 times out of 100 If Dublin funded their own underage coaching setup (as they can easily afford to do so) they would be on a much leveller playing field in terms of preparation with their competitors but it seems there is no interest in Croke Park for fairness...................." How much to Kerry get from Kerry group mate? TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 22:51:04 2072941 Link
Replying To kildare73: "Who said anyone wanted Dublin's sponsorship money??? The conversation is about how Central funding is given out! And you never explained why a per registered club player was "A rubbish argument " as you claimed. Got any thoughts?" The 'per registered club player' is a rubbish argument for the very simple reason that the coaching funding that everyone gets so worked up about is directed at national school children up to the age of 8 or 9,which means that EVERY child in the school will receive the same coaching, not just the ones that are members of the GAA. Given the fact that the amount of kids in Dublin that become involved in the GAA was at only 9% about 5 years ago there is an awful lot of coaching that gets little or no long-term result, but it has to be done. As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Dublin get the funding is that they have a structured and functioning coaching system. For all the talk of Dublin taking money that others should have, I have never heard of any County being refused funds for games development if they had a workable plan in place. AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 31/01/2018 22:51:52 2072942 Link
Replying To kildare73: "Dublin are already well in the fundraising market. That's not even in question." Not so mate, Dublin fundraising figures are significantly less to the tune of millions to their closest rivals. I expect Dublin to move into this area more if I'm honest, particularly after today, funny there has been an increase from the summer onwards, I expect DCB knew development funding was being cut around that time. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 22:53:50 2072943 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Because games development money goes to attract participants to Galiec games at schools level and Cul camps etc to attract people to play Gailic games and in the future support them, not to fund those already members of the association, honestly people don't know what games development money is used for. I honestly think many on here think it's handed over to the senior, minor or U21 teams. What Dublin spend the games development in all online, I bet no one has even looked. Funding as always is skewed for example, Kerry have received funding of 9 mill euros from the GAA and state for their to facilities under development. Mayo improvement to McHale Park had to be ultimately funded by the GAA five million, Park Ui Coaimbhe, 10s of millions. That's all on top of games development and provincial council funding (Dublin don't receive) annually. It's a simple argument just focusing on game development money, it's an aspect of GAA funding. But it's not the total. If anyone wants to talk about funding, post cumlitive figures on funding grants in infrastructure, development money, fundraising, provincal council funding. I bet many from some counties shouting the loudest here won't." You're being very creative with your figures, Tralee IT received funding of 7.5m for their sports campus that will cater for many sports and teams, including the Kerry GAA teams. Third level institutions in Dublin would have received many multiples of this over the years I am sure, and Dublin teams would have availed of these facilities at times. Should we count that as part of Dublin's funding too? GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 31/01/2018 22:58:25 2072945 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Because games development money goes to attract participants to Galiec games at schools level and Cul camps etc to attract people to play Gailic games and in the future support them, not to fund those already members of the association, honestly people don't know what games development money is used for. I honestly think many on here think it's handed over to the senior, minor or U21 teams. What Dublin spend the games development in all online, I bet no one has even looked. Funding as always is skewed for example, Kerry have received funding of 9 mill euros from the GAA and state for their to facilities under development. Mayo improvement to McHale Park had to be ultimately funded by the GAA five million, Park Ui Coaimbhe, 10s of millions. That's all on top of games development and provincial council funding (Dublin don't receive) annually. It's a simple argument just focusing on game development money, it's an aspect of GAA funding. But it's not the total. If anyone wants to talk about funding, post cumlitive figures on funding grants in infrastructure, development money, fundraising, provincal council funding. I bet many from some counties shouting the loudest here won't." We have to pay for our own cúl camps down here the GAA doesn't pay for them. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 31/01/2018 23:11:55 2072947 Link
Replying To AHP: "The 'per registered club player' is a rubbish argument for the very simple reason that the coaching funding that everyone gets so worked up about is directed at national school children up to the age of 8 or 9,which means that EVERY child in the school will receive the same coaching, not just the ones that are members of the GAA. Given the fact that the amount of kids in Dublin that become involved in the GAA was at only 9% about 5 years ago there is an awful lot of coaching that gets little or no long-term result, but it has to be done. As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Dublin get the funding is that they have a structured and functioning coaching system. For all the talk of Dublin taking money that others should have, I have never heard of any County being refused funds for games development if they had a workable plan in place." The coaching systems you refer too were developed as part of a plan to improve the Dublin football team in the 00's as they were badly underperforming. This was driven initially by CP rather than by Dublin themselves, although to be fair Dublin do not seem to have wasted a penny. The funding for this was provided through the ISC and ring fenced for Dublin. No other county was allowed to apply for it. Do you honestly think other counties are leaving money on the table because they can't put a plan together? The money is not there. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 31/01/2018 23:13:08 2072948 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "You're being very creative with your figures, Tralee IT received funding of 7.5m for their sports campus that will cater for many sports and teams, including the Kerry GAA teams. Third level institutions in Dublin would have received many multiples of this over the years I am sure, and Dublin teams would have availed of these facilities at times. Should we count that as part of Dublin's funding too?" Excellent point Gerry again more deflection. And username do you work for the Dublin county board? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 31/01/2018 23:24:10 2072951 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "You're being very creative with your figures, Tralee IT received funding of 7.5m for their sports campus that will cater for many sports and teams, including the Kerry GAA teams. Third level institutions in Dublin would have received many multiples of this over the years I am sure, and Dublin teams would have availed of these facilities at times. Should we count that as part of Dublin's funding too?" The GAA facilities Dublin use for the championship in St. Annes were developed by Pat Gilroy and largely developed through donations his buisness contacts or fund raising as some would cal, it. For the league and O Byrne cup, Dublin train in Innisfallis club ground. I have no problem with the Soorts Council giving Tralee IT 7.5 million it will benefit the local community in Kerry, Students and Kerry Inter county team, I have no problem with central council giving Kerry 1 million for COE, The Munster council another 1 mill and Kerry group another 1 million in adddition to annual development money and annual grants from the Munster council. My point is there are threads on Dublin's development money, but it's one aspect of funding by the GAA. I have yet to see anyone publish figures of acculitive funding by the GAA and other state sources. The above illustrates an example of cumulative funding. There are 1.5 million people in county Dublin, using Kerry as an example there is less then 140k in that county. That is a huge amount of money for those likely to benifit. If we are going to have a debate about equity then there has to be maximum transparency. I'm not picking on Kerry, there are many examples of this. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 23:27:00 2072953 Link
Also mate I had a wry smile when I saw a few Kerry buachaillí in the UCD team, Dublin getting the benifit of all the world class facilities on their doorstep indeed. :D TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 23:31:13 2072955 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Not so mate, Dublin fundraising figures are significantly less to the tune of millions to their closest rivals. I expect Dublin to move into this area more if I'm honest, particularly after today, funny there has been an increase from the summer onwards, I expect DCB knew development funding was being cut around that time." Off the top of my head I don't know anyone else with an AIG like deal but as I said in an earlier post I wouldn't begrudge Dublin their sponsorship deals because they went out and got them. They should keep that money. My problem is central funding seems heavily skewed. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/01/2018 23:35:33 2072956 Link
Replying To AHP: "The 'per registered club player' is a rubbish argument for the very simple reason that the coaching funding that everyone gets so worked up about is directed at national school children up to the age of 8 or 9,which means that EVERY child in the school will receive the same coaching, not just the ones that are members of the GAA. Given the fact that the amount of kids in Dublin that become involved in the GAA was at only 9% about 5 years ago there is an awful lot of coaching that gets little or no long-term result, but it has to be done. As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Dublin get the funding is that they have a structured and functioning coaching system. For all the talk of Dublin taking money that others should have, I have never heard of any County being refused funds for games development if they had a workable plan in place." Fair enough but do we know that every child in the country is getting equal funding to every child in Dublin? Doesn't sound like it but I'm open to correction. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/01/2018 23:39:06 2072957 Link
Replying To kildare73: "Off the top of my head I don't know anyone else with an AIG like deal but as I said in an earlier post I wouldn't begrudge Dublin their sponsorship deals because they went out and got them. They should keep that money. My problem is central funding seems heavily skewed." Sponsorship and fundraising are two different things mate, some counties have dinners in Dublin, London and New York with a plate price ranging from 2k to 5k. Before we get down to brown envelope time. It's helpful if you also have the minister of the diaspora as an ex inter county player, who just happens to be passing said events in New York and could pop in to say hello. But it's all just a bit of flat cap fun, Yerra! ;) TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2018 23:52:18 2072958 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "The GAA facilities Dublin use for the championship in St. Annes were developed by Pat Gilroy and largely developed through donations his buisness contacts or fund raising as some would cal, it. For the league and O Byrne cup, Dublin train in Innisfallis club ground. I have no problem with the Soorts Council giving Tralee IT 7.5 million it will benefit the local community in Kerry, Students and Kerry Inter county team, I have no problem with central council giving Kerry 1 million for COE, The Munster council another 1 mill and Kerry group another 1 million in adddition to annual development money and annual grants from the Munster council. My point is there are threads on Dublin's development money, but it's one aspect of funding by the GAA. I have yet to see anyone publish figures of acculitive funding by the GAA and other state sources. The above illustrates an example of cumulative funding. There are 1.5 million people in county Dublin, using Kerry as an example there is less then 140k in that county. That is a huge amount of money for those likely to benifit. If we are going to have a debate about equity then there has to be maximum transparency. I'm not picking on Kerry, there are many examples of this." Yeah, many examples, but to casually state that Kerry GAA got 9m in capital funding is just not true at all. The figures across the board are hard to decipher and understand, people focus on the games development money, but what about the 'special' off the books grant under the ISC. This was blatant and unbridled favouritism at the time, although I am not sure it was the wrong thing to do. Perhaps you could argue it worked too well, as it has contributed to the utter destruction of the Leinster championship as a competition, and has seriously distorted the wider championship. Would Dublin's success have come about anyway? We will never know. Either way it seems the GAA are moving to level the playing field a bit. The damage is done in Leinster though, and I cannot see a credible competition emerging there any time soon. Munster is as bad to be fair, and Connacht would be too if Mayo took it seriously. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 31/01/2018 23:56:53 2072961 Link