(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post
|
Ya but Kerry and mayo have to fundraise for most of our money, since 2015 mayo have fundraised 1.7 million and we fundraised something similar , Dublin have fundraised 161 thousand in that time. Dublin have full time administration and a PR company. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 30/01/2018 22:17:20 2072611 Link 0 |
|
It's the hypocrisy of those that are as mentioned by another poster ok with dominance as long as its them dominating. The predictable baloney from those classless corners that hate to see a side other than themselves achieve notierity through years of graft and commitment. Funny how some who have more reason to be bitter have the good sense and grace to recognise the achievements of this group of winners. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 30/01/2018 22:21:26 2072614 Link 2 |
|
I would be against the splitting of Dublin...if we go down that route then will we see amalgamation at inter county level? We are all very proud of our counties and any solution to this is a slippery slope.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 30/01/2018 22:23:24 2072616 Link 1 |
|
He was part of the set up of a former regime. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 30/01/2018 22:51:30 2072630 Link 2 |
|
I think we are close to reaching a tipping point where people are becoming disillusioned with the effort Croke Park put into building up Dublin and the powerhouse they created. People look on and admire Dublin's football but I know a lot of people who go to plenty of matches involving other Leinster teams and league games but won't go when their county play Dublin because they know what's coming and won't pay for a ticket and get themselves to Dublin to watch their team take a beating. Its ok for Dublin fans to say make the most of your resources like we do, but if your resources are so much less than someone else's you can never really bridge that gap. It feels like for the next few years nothing is going to change, I hope I'm wrong and I hope my county is one of the ones who may step forward. I admire Mayo and Kerry for their consistency but funding needs a fairer distribution across the country and let the tide lift all boats because if not people will vote with their feet and stay home and that's not good for the game. I'm sure some people won't agree with me but I'm just giving a point of view. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 30/01/2018 22:58:08 2072635 Link 2 |
|
When Dublin won their first All Ireland in 16 years in 2011 there was tremendous congratulations and support for them right across the island. I remember being one of the first on HS to post this. However in the intervening period it has become a procession to an annual Dublin coronation with Croke Park HQ throwing handfuls of petals and red roses in front of them. The revelations at the disparaging amounts of central funding is now quite shocking. Dublin now are basically a professional side with a professional set up, PR, marketing, advertising, sponsorship, media links on top of central funding. It's not right and the slippery slope to rugby union like elitism that has destroyed rugby union at grass roots.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 30/01/2018 23:12:51 2072642 Link 3 |
|
What is he talking about? Dublin haven't won Hurling All Ireland since 1938. Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 30/01/2018 23:44:29 2072650 Link 0 |
|
Lads you're making me laugh too much here, the population advatange has been there since day 1. You all go on as if all this money is thrown at the senior footballers, your all just using it as an excuse as to why your county hasn't been successful. Our day in the sun will come to an end, we may stay competitive but the domination will not last forever. Money didn't give us Flynn, Connolly, McCarthy, The Brogans etc. Hill16Army (Dublin) - Posts: 88 - 31/01/2018 00:19:25 2072655 Link 4 |
|
Firstly Ulsterman..... Professionalism/Elitism has ruined rugby at grassroots level? That has to be one of the weirdest comments I've ever heard from you. Elitism at grassroot level has existed in rugby down to the clientele they choose to work with. Its a sport thats generally played by upper class people and is not accessible to every child in every town in our land. So comparisons to rugby are just weird. Rugby chose to be elitist a long time before professionalism. JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 31/01/2018 01:11:42 2072659 Link 4 |
|
Dublin footballers have won 5 of the last 7 AIs. That's not something that can be achieved with money. If you managed one then maybe yes but not 5. The hurlers , whatever spin you wish to place on it have a league and a Leinster title in the same period. The organizational work and grass roots effort that has contributed to these achievements is easy to gloss over. Kk and kerry have had periods of dominance with crops of players that once retired ended the dominance. That's conveniently put aside when people don't like the facts. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 31/01/2018 08:24:32 2072677 Link 3 |
|
Mayo and kerry do a lot of fundraising most of it coming from supporters including some big hitters in the UK and US. Every county has wealthy ex pats abroad somewhere, think outside the box lads...make it happen. The Leitrim club in New York do very well and being over experienced players and are financially well backed...would gmhis money not be better spend at propelling Leitrim football at home up a level or 2? yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 31/01/2018 09:54:23 2072699 Link 1 |
|
You make a fair point kildare73 but what usually happens on this topic is that the notion and context of 'funding' is somehow lost when it comes to specifics. I think Dublin fans themselves would admit that there has been an unbalanced funding model when it comes to games development. But this money, for instance, doesn't relate directly to the senior teams success. Its been a factor but I don't see it as the one and only reason as to Dublins success. Kingdomboy makes a point about fundraising, its a source of money that, for me gets glossed over as a transparent income for counties. The money that Dublin have received from Croke Park and their sponsors is there for all to see. Although fundraising isn't illegal, it is unbalanced in its distribution. It comes down to who you know and how big their pockets are. I'm not accusing anyone of anything here but lets say County A has a friend in America that has a number of close friends that are all wealthy while County B biggest windfall is the annual raffle from all its clubs. This money isn't legislated for anywhere in the GAA (not that I'm aware of). If people want to make donations to the GAA then hey, why wouldn't you take it. But when one county gets more 'fundraising' money than others it starts to blur the lines. I'm surprised MacKenna never did a big expose piece on this as part of his 'financial doping' narrative. McGuinness made a great point about the sponsorship money that the GAA receive when he said that sponsorship money made from GAA counties should be pooled and distributed equally. In much the same way as the fundraising scenario I painted earlier, I do think its unfair that certain counties like Dublin make so much more in this area than others. Again, I don't think any Dub supporter would have a problem with that. But back to your point about resources available and what a county can do with what is at their disposal. I do think that the numbers that have been thrown about around Dublins funding is giving people an excuse to their own short comings. If we forget about Dublin for a minute and focus on some of the sleeping giants like Meath and Cork for example, and examine their results against other teams you'd really have to ask questions of their preparation and their own set up. I think both, Cork especially, are underachieving in a big way. They've had some high profile players leave the panel over the years but for a county of its resources and playing population they should be competing better than they have done. Take 2015 as an example, they should have beaten Kerry in the Munster final that year but it went to a replay which they lost and then got well beaten by Kildare in the qualifiers. Kildare in turn conceded 7 goals to Kerry. So how did the team who ran the All Ireland finalists that year so close, lose to a team that would get beaten even worse by said All Ireland finalists. I for one think the money argument is too easy a stick to beat Dublins success with. Is there an unbalanced financial model in the GAA, absolutely, I wouldn't disagree with that. Is this anything new, absolutely not, possibly not on the same scale but that is very hard to measure to an exact value. Look at the funding differences between the likes of Kerry and Mayo compared to some of the non performing counties. Kerry and Mayo have been competing at the latter stages of the competition every year with similar amounts so why are they able to compete so well and others can't? Has the demand on players increased, yes, and I think this is a core issue. The expectation placed on the modern day intercounty footballer is becoming unrealistic to manage. Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo seem to be able to sustain this with their panels. I do think a large number of county's are at an automatic disadvantage here. keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 31/01/2018 10:21:46 2072708 Link 1 |
|
There were 10 changes from the Kilkenny side that won in 2006 to the team that won in 2012. I know the point you're trying to make but that's an extremely weak argument.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 31/01/2018 10:36:42 2072711 Link 2 |
|
This is a cycle...much like Kilkenny's recent hurling dominance. Dublin are winning, playing entertaining, attacking football. I enjoy their games, and their success doesn't bother me. They have the best coach in the country, Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 31/01/2018 10:53:03 2072718 Link 2 |
|
Cluxton, McMahon, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, McCauley, Connolly, Flynn, Brogan, Andrews, O'Gara, McMennamon - 12 players, all either started both games or came off the bench. Its hardly a completely different team Not to mention Bastick who was on the panel but didn't make many appearances. Not sure if Darren Daly was on the 2011 panel as well, perhaps the Dubs can correct me there keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 31/01/2018 11:18:34 2072724 Link 0 |
|
I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Dublin's dominance is not to some extent connected to money. A couple of years ago it was published that Dublin got 51% of GAA grants while the other counties got the balance split between them. One poster said on here Dublin received funding of €230 per club player while other counties got €30. I don't know if these figures are correct but if they are any way close then surely it's hard to argue that there's any balance there. Why wouldn't it be fair to fund every club player around the country evenly? And if not then why? Dublin fans can and will come on and say people are jealous but can you honestly say if another county was receiving such funding over your county you wouldn't be on here raising the issue? And while people are saying it's a cycle it may well be but it certainly looks as though it's not going to end any time soon given the strength of the Dublin conveyor belt. The GAA wanted to create the golden goose. Problem is it might be reducing the rest of the flock. People will accuse me of being jealous, I'm not, I'm envious and there is a difference. Who wouldn't want to have Dublin's success? But at least balance the funding and go from there. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/01/2018 11:21:10 2072726 Link 2 |
|
When Dublin have the same no. of All Irelands as Kerry then I will expect change. But they are still about 10 down. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 31/01/2018 11:27:35 2072729 Link 1 |
|
Not disagreeing with you kildare73, but one thing I struggle to understand are these figures that the likes of MacKenna have recently started throwing around i.e. €230 vs €30. What does this disparity mean exactly and how is it calculated? What mitigating factors does it involve in terms of its calculation? How was this money spent? Was it only for games development recruitment, full time coaches, travel expenses, refurbishment of GAA infrastructure within that county etc? I'm not trying to deflect from the issue, I agree that there is an unbalanced funding method out there as I stated previously. But I also find people like MacKenna a tad disingenuous to throw out these figures without proving their calculation theorem. From what I can tell he took the playing population of a county and divided it by the sum of the allocation which was an amalgamation of a number of different funds for different things. Is this the right way to do it? At the same time, I would love to see the GAA's determination as to how the money was to be allocated, how did they come up with their calculation, just for balance. keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 31/01/2018 11:44:28 2072740 Link 1 |
|
The argument "sure we haven't won much in Hurling" by Dublin supporters is a nonsense. Ye have arguably made more progress in Hurling under your period of financial boom than in Football. Perennial cannon fodder for Kilkenny, Wexford, Offaly in Leinster during the 90s and early 2000s, now ye are competitive as a top tier hurling county. The starting point for the footballers was much higher and you would have always had reasonable aspirations of being in the shake up every year. Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 120 - 31/01/2018 12:54:48 2072755 Link 5 |
|
Meath are a sleeping giant, but you want them joined with Westmeath? What about Galway? The county of galway has more of a population than both Meath and Kidare, I accept its a far bigger dual county. Leave amalgamating counties out of this. I would rather my own county ( who has a very small chance of winning a Leinster each year) dream and hope of winning it and try each year than join up with somebody else! Sure why don't Galway join with Roscommon, would you be in favour of that?
LongfordSham (Longford) - Posts: 106 - 31/01/2018 13:25:43 2072770 Link 0 |