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I was talking to one of the players Monday night and he confirmed Davy is staying another year, which in my opinion is a good thing although i still dont know what tweeks he needs to make to the tactics for us to progress other than put the likes of Nolan in as sweeper, as i still dont think we are good enough in the backs to go 15 v 15
Frankie63 (Wexford) - Posts: 64 - 18/07/2018 11:03:10
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Replying To logger: "LohansRedHelmet (Clare) I'd agree with a lot of what you said there. Clare the better team on Saturday and usually that's the reason why one team looses. I also agree Davy did a good job last year but this year i feel teams have worked us out and they now know how to beat the system. The very best of luck v Cork.
We can talk about systems and the like but the scoreboard doesn't lie at the end of the day. Under Davy it seems that once we get knocked out of Leinster we have nothing left in the tank. The margins are tiny, one more point against KK and we would have been in a Leinster final.
Can Davy change the system, can he tweak it? Do we have to go flat out in the league? Can we adjust training and have us peaking at the right time of year.
I'm not sure getting rid of Davy is the answer either, 3 years ago under Liam Dunne Offaly came down to Wexford Park and beat us by 8pts. If Davy does decide himself to leave, we need to appoint someone from within the county." Logger - Offaly did beat Wex in the league 3 years ago under by Liam Dunne, it was actually by 9 points, however what you didn't mention is that Wex beat Offaly, by 10 points in the championship, incidentally the same year that Wex beat Cork for the first time in 50 years in the championship.. and that was 3 years ago too. Liam Dunne had to build a team, Davy was handed a team. BIG difference so expectations should be higher and progress should be further. 4 quarter finals in 5 years.. we're consistent for sure, but no progress.
We've nothing left in the tank for the championship as the team are getting flogged in the Winter to get ready for the league, that is really obvious now. And we've been hammered in the last two league semi finals. And we failed to score from play in 35 mins of hurling to lose to Kilkenny in the league semi final. You can dress it up whatever you want, 9 points up against KK after 40 mins in the championship, and we lost the game. This is more then tiny tweaks and peaking at the right time changes. This is over haul time! Davy needs to try something different, being an all Ireland winning manager he surely has more than one system to offer.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 12:28:39
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Replying To Frankie63: "I was talking to one of the players Monday night and he confirmed Davy is staying another year, which in my opinion is a good thing although i still dont know what tweeks he needs to make to the tactics for us to progress other than put the likes of Nolan in as sweeper, as i still dont think we are good enough in the backs to go 15 v 15" Just on this, I think we would be good enough in the backs if the team was set up with players playing in their more natural positions. For example, parachute Darren Byrne into corner-back for the league campaign next year and see how he progresses Much like Ryan, he has played most of his under-age hurling at county level at full-back, but again like Ryan could serve his time in the corner at senior level while Ryan holds down the jersey at full.
This would free up Reck to play at wing-back, where is natural attacking instincts would be best utilised (he was one of our positives from the weekend). Murphy, Firman, Donohoe and whoever else emerges from the club championship could then battle it out for the remaining corner-back spot.
Furthermore, Dee would be pushed on to wing-forward where his running game would be better utilised, with Chin locked in at 11, and another "runner" such as Dunne on the other side. I heard a full-forward line mooted earlier of Casey-ROC-Mac, and that looks appealing on paper, although Morris had a good championship campaign and is usually unselfish in his application and team-work. So maybe ROC at the wing in a roaming role, with Mac sandwiched between Morris and Casey.
Wouldn't play with a designated sweeper, but rather have someone drop back now and again to help the defence whenever play dictates. K.Foley, Nolan, JOC, Dee and even Chin are all options in this regard.
Fanning; Byrne,Ryan,AN Other; P.Foley, O'Hanlon, Reck; K.Foley,Nolan; ROC,Chin,Dee; Morris, Mac, Casey
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 18/07/2018 12:39:22
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people need to understand,very few people in wexford dont want wexford teams to win.you will get bitter people in both codes,but the vast majority want both teams to win.
unlike in other years,criticism is not being levelled at players,which is a positive.
i know one thing,if davy comes back next year we had better see a new gameplan.this isnt "tweaks,different sweeper,etc".we have been found out.
we need 15 v 15,i dont mind a half forward coming out to help midfield if we are losing a battle,but for * sake a half forward is a forward not a half back.
this year we seen balls rolling over the end line.i was never a believer in the full forward line cant come by the 21 but they are in there to score goals,and points,and stop the ball going wide.
if the management team dont need an overhaul,the gameplan very much does.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 18/07/2018 12:43:13
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Replying To castletownman: "Logger - Offaly did beat Wex in the league 3 years ago under by Liam Dunne, it was actually by 9 points, however what you didn't mention is that Wex beat Offaly, by 10 points in the championship, incidentally the same year that Wex beat Cork for the first time in 50 years in the championship.. and that was 3 years ago too. Liam Dunne had to build a team, Davy was handed a team. BIG difference so expectations should be higher and progress should be further. 4 quarter finals in 5 years.. we're consistent for sure, but no progress.
We've nothing left in the tank for the championship as the team are getting flogged in the Winter to get ready for the league, that is really obvious now. And we've been hammered in the last two league semi finals. And we failed to score from play in 35 mins of hurling to lose to Kilkenny in the league semi final. You can dress it up whatever you want, 9 points up against KK after 40 mins in the championship, and we lost the game. This is more then tiny tweaks and peaking at the right time changes. This is over haul time! Davy needs to try something different, being an all Ireland winning manager he surely has more than one system to offer." It was a fantastic win against Cork but it was a one off. You failed to mention Waterford hammered us by 10pts in an all ireland quarter final that year. That was one of the poorest performances i have ever sat through, it was a lot worse than Saturdays performance.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 297 - 18/07/2018 12:48:41
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Replying To Viking66: "I disagree. We stayed in 1a which was progress in itself. We lost a de facto Leinster semifinal away in Nowlan Park by just 1 point which was also an achievement if bitterly disappointing at the time. And for the 1st time in god knows how long we were actually in with a shout of winning an AIQF in the closing minutes. Against a much improved Clare team most of whom have AI medals already won in 2013. Just 3 years ago we were struggling against Laois and losing to Offaly. Anyone who thinks its possible to go from that to beating all the big teams and winning all the big games in just 3 years is away with the fairies. Im as disappointed as anyone else we didnt win in Nowlan Park. And down in Cork. But last year we had already lost the leinster final and the AIQF after just 45 minutes. This year there was just the puck of a ball between us and Clare going into injury time and its hard not to feel we left the game behind us when you factor in the poor wides and Clare scores direct from poor clearances." Galway are in Div 1 B... who REALLY cares about the league. seriously, the trend is obvious now, the manager doesn't believe we can do much in the championship, he's got to reach some sort of targets, flogs the players over the Winter, puts in a decent league campaign, then the wheels fall off the wagon.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 12:59:07
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Replying To logger: "It was a fantastic win against Cork but it was a one off. You failed to mention Waterford hammered us by 10pts in an all ireland quarter final that year. That was one of the poorest performances i have ever sat through, it was a lot worse than Saturdays performance." Did we not just lose by 7 at the weekend.. pot/kettle.. It's the idea that this is progress is prosperous. The league results do lie and cover over the cracks. We were rested, there's no fatigue to blame for that Clare loss etc. We were already at quarter final level with Dunne, Davy's repeat that.. how's that progress... like I said previously, it certainly is consistent, but it's not progressive.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 13:08:06
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Replying To beano: "Just on this, I think we would be good enough in the backs if the team was set up with players playing in their more natural positions. For example, parachute Darren Byrne into corner-back for the league campaign next year and see how he progresses Much like Ryan, he has played most of his under-age hurling at county level at full-back, but again like Ryan could serve his time in the corner at senior level while Ryan holds down the jersey at full.
This would free up Reck to play at wing-back, where is natural attacking instincts would be best utilised (he was one of our positives from the weekend). Murphy, Firman, Donohoe and whoever else emerges from the club championship could then battle it out for the remaining corner-back spot.
Furthermore, Dee would be pushed on to wing-forward where his running game would be better utilised, with Chin locked in at 11, and another "runner" such as Dunne on the other side. I heard a full-forward line mooted earlier of Casey-ROC-Mac, and that looks appealing on paper, although Morris had a good championship campaign and is usually unselfish in his application and team-work. So maybe ROC at the wing in a roaming role, with Mac sandwiched between Morris and Casey.
Wouldn't play with a designated sweeper, but rather have someone drop back now and again to help the defence whenever play dictates. K.Foley, Nolan, JOC, Dee and even Chin are all options in this regard.
Fanning; Byrne,Ryan,AN Other; P.Foley, O'Hanlon, Reck; K.Foley,Nolan; ROC,Chin,Dee; Morris, Mac, Casey" I'd love to see Byrne and casey given an opportunity in the league, both look great prospects.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 297 - 18/07/2018 13:22:51
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Replying To castletownman: "Did we not just lose by 7 at the weekend.. pot/kettle.. It's the idea that this is progress is prosperous. The league results do lie and cover over the cracks. We were rested, there's no fatigue to blame for that Clare loss etc. We were already at quarter final level with Dunne, Davy's repeat that.. how's that progress... like I said previously, it certainly is consistent, but it's not progressive." I never said it was progress castletown.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 297 - 18/07/2018 13:26:40
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Replying To perfect10: "lads be honest,who here thinks we made any bit of progress this year.we made progress last year,but none this year.
we were bet out the gate by a galway team pulling up.
whether or not we trained on christmas eve or christmas day or whenever is irrelevant.when the chips are down,in june july,over the last 2 years we were flat and wore out.we have over trained and the team look tired when championship comes around.
it was important to stay in 1a,which we did.but not at the extent of a decent championship.
the worst part is,we have the players.maybe not to win an all-ireland,but 100% i think ryan,o keefe,mcdonald and rory o connor,etc are as good as the top players in galway,cork and kilkenny.
remember when we bet clare in 2013?high ball in to mcdonald,caught it,goal.
we are good enough to play 15v15,i think something or someone has them convinced they arent." It is definitely not irrelevant. False facts on here are read and passed on and thats a source of rumour that runs around the county!! So it is important to point out when something is factually incorrect!
I agree we were most definitely over trained and peaked too early again. I would be inclined to be much happier with a good league than some people on here, although obviously I'd prefer a better championship.
Lastly i do think rory, mac, jippo and others are very good hurlers but I dont think they are as good nationally as we rate them. I dont think we have the best player in any position and if I was to pick a national 15 i wouldnt have a wexford player on it.
No doubt given the right ball Mac is lethal but sure so is anybody at that level.
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 18/07/2018 14:21:08
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Replying To logger: "I never said it was progress castletown." Well you're happy to plug on with Davy and that management team, so obviously you feel that's good enough progress for this year. With the extraordinary amount of money being spent, training camps abroad etc. I for one would expect more in return.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 14:37:10
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right so,if they trained on christmas eve,that is grand...............
liam ryan is one of the best full backs in the country at present in my view.rory o connor is a class act,i think he is the best u21 hurler in the country.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 18/07/2018 15:11:22
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Replying To castletownman: "Well you're happy to plug on with Davy and that management team, so obviously you feel that's good enough progress for this year. With the extraordinary amount of money being spent, training camps abroad etc. I for one would expect more in return." I'd be worried about what could come after Davy, so yes i'm happy to keep him but want a different system and i also expected more but sometimes you have to go 2 steps back to go 3 steps forward. Davy is an all Ireland winning manager and surely he can come up with something else that would be suitable for the players we have.
I would be on for going 15 v 15 in the league to see how we get on. I would also be in favour of playing players in there correct positions, chin being an obvious example. We need to give squad players game time, its the same 17-18 players used every day.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 297 - 18/07/2018 15:45:57
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Replying To beano: "Just on this, I think we would be good enough in the backs if the team was set up with players playing in their more natural positions. For example, parachute Darren Byrne into corner-back for the league campaign next year and see how he progresses Much like Ryan, he has played most of his under-age hurling at county level at full-back, but again like Ryan could serve his time in the corner at senior level while Ryan holds down the jersey at full.
This would free up Reck to play at wing-back, where is natural attacking instincts would be best utilised (he was one of our positives from the weekend). Murphy, Firman, Donohoe and whoever else emerges from the club championship could then battle it out for the remaining corner-back spot.
Furthermore, Dee would be pushed on to wing-forward where his running game would be better utilised, with Chin locked in at 11, and another "runner" such as Dunne on the other side. I heard a full-forward line mooted earlier of Casey-ROC-Mac, and that looks appealing on paper, although Morris had a good championship campaign and is usually unselfish in his application and team-work. So maybe ROC at the wing in a roaming role, with Mac sandwiched between Morris and Casey.
Wouldn't play with a designated sweeper, but rather have someone drop back now and again to help the defence whenever play dictates. K.Foley, Nolan, JOC, Dee and even Chin are all options in this regard.
Fanning; Byrne,Ryan,AN Other; P.Foley, O'Hanlon, Reck; K.Foley,Nolan; ROC,Chin,Dee; Morris, Mac, Casey" I think you are spot on here about player being put of their best position. IMHO with a number of positional changes, these Wexford players will perform even better.
Potential moves might be:
Reck to wing back
Chin to 11 and leave him there as a specific ball winner but also mark their centre back
I'd give Darren Byrne a run at corner back.
I'd also like to see what Shaun Murphy can do as a corner back or wing back without the sweeper responsibility.
Casey into corner forward with the job of getting an 80% return on frees.
Conor Mc at full forward.
Morris in the corner
Rory O with a roving roll at wing forward
Dee to wing forward/3rd midfielder - very good player but not a wing back.
I'd like 15/15 and see how we would get on with these type of changes.
Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 18/07/2018 15:56:47
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All Counties tend to be a bit insular when it comes to rating our own players, and its just individual opinion at the end of the day.
Personally i think 15 v 15 our backs would not be good enough, like one poster already mentioned some of the backs look out of position, Jippo to me looks the only one natural enough in his position, Young Reck & in particular Dee dont look comfortable defending at times but overall i do think the players are there to reach AI Semi's and reach a Leinster final.
A solid Free-taker and we would have made it to 2 Leinster Finals on the bounce.
Frankie63 (Wexford) - Posts: 64 - 18/07/2018 16:02:11
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Replying To castletownman: "Well you're happy to plug on with Davy and that management team, so obviously you feel that's good enough progress for this year. With the extraordinary amount of money being spent, training camps abroad etc. I for one would expect more in return." Maybe you are right in terms of better use of funds, but there's another side to the Wexford hurlers doing better in the last two years than in previous years.
It helps fundraisers to get more money in easier, more sponsorhip and more crowds at games.
Would that have happened anyway without the Davy buzz or the upturn in the hurlers fortunes over the last two years ... I don't know. Here's a link to the official numbers which seem to be balancing, which can only be a good thing for everybody.
http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2017/12/wexford-gaa-report-positive-financial-year-2018/
Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 18/07/2018 16:04:19
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Replying To logger: "I'd be worried about what could come after Davy, so yes i'm happy to keep him but want a different system and i also expected more but sometimes you have to go 2 steps back to go 3 steps forward. Davy is an all Ireland winning manager and surely he can come up with something else that would be suitable for the players we have.
I would be on for going 15 v 15 in the league to see how we get on. I would also be in favour of playing players in there correct positions, chin being an obvious example. We need to give squad players game time, its the same 17-18 players used every day." Yep I agree, hopefully an All Ireland winning manager has more tactics and systems to offer. You're spot on re playing players in the right positions, that's one decision the management got seriously wrong this year. Maybe your right re Davy, but I think we need someone different. For me Davy is a journey man manager. We need someone to lead, bring discipline and varied tactics to the table. Our set pieces need a lot of work, puck outs/free taking etc. This needs serious work.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 16:21:31
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Replying To castletownman: "Yep I agree, hopefully an All Ireland winning manager has more tactics and systems to offer. You're spot on re playing players in the right positions, that's one decision the management got seriously wrong this year. Maybe your right re Davy, but I think we need someone different. For me Davy is a journey man manager. We need someone to lead, bring discipline and varied tactics to the table. Our set pieces need a lot of work, puck outs/free taking etc. This needs serious work." i agree.
davy was a goalkeeper himself,why has our puck out strategy been a shambles?
he supposedly knew the clare players inside out and sent paidi foley (who was brilliant all year,along with ryan our star performer and i wouldnt say a bad word about) chasing tony kelly around the place?cathal malone cleaned us out at midfield,i dont think i ever heard of him.
so what did he do in the lead up to the match if it was not make sure his match ups were correct?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 18/07/2018 16:28:54
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Replying To perfect10: "i agree.
davy was a goalkeeper himself,why has our puck out strategy been a shambles?
he supposedly knew the clare players inside out and sent paidi foley (who was brilliant all year,along with ryan our star performer and i wouldnt say a bad word about) chasing tony kelly around the place?cathal malone cleaned us out at midfield,i dont think i ever heard of him.
so what did he do in the lead up to the match if it was not make sure his match ups were correct?" spot on.. for me the set pieces are simple piece of the jigsaw we're missing, it's a lack of attention to detail. It's the one part of hurling that a player can practice and prepare for, and then practice more. The lack of a designated and overly trained free taker (still) is a worry.. this is a management decision, then give the player support to work on their free taking.
And getting the match ups wrong maybe shows a little complacency towards Clare and an over reliance of how Davy knows the players. Those Clare players have also developed and progressed, it's not the team that he left. And as it was the players in Clare who got rid of Davy, I'm sure they had plenty of motivation to keep them focused when playing Wexford.
castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 18/07/2018 22:02:12
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I don't believe for a second that Wexford were flat v Clare because they were over trained. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the lethargy in our display was more psychological than physical. The standard of fitness required to perform to the optimum level nowadays is phenomenal. The quality of training and fitness coaches in Ireland is very high. These people are not chosen lightly for the important roles they play. They know exactly what is required - otherwise they would not be appointed in the first place.
Wexford had real momentum going into the league semi final v Kilkenny in Wexford Park. After losing to us for 3 consecutive games, Brian Cody devised a system to counteract our system and subsequently blitzed us in the first half of the league semi. We never really recovered. Ok you can argue that we had a tough physical battle v Galway the previous week. If that had an effect physically, how do you account for Kilkenny's tremendous performance v Limerick in the All Ireland quarter final when they played for the third consecutive week in a row, the first two being against the most physical team in the country in the Leinster final and subsequent replay?
You could argue that Wexford started training earlier in the season than Kilkenny, but Kilkenny had played 2 more competitive games this year before All Ireland quarter - final weekend. The difference lies in attitude and self -belief. Wexford played their best hurling of the year in the first 50 minutes v Kilkenny, and with a little bit of luck and cuteness, could, and probably should have won that game. Psychologically, the two defeats to Kilkenny deflated us. Once Kilkenny started to roll in the final round robin game we just couldn't seem to stop them. As a result, we lost that game and were flat v both Westmeath and Clare. Our confidence and self- belief had been knocked. I'm not a fan of the sweeper, and maybe the players themselves have lost a bit of faith in that system. Again, psychologically that could be a factor.
A big factor is undoubtedly our attitude. Anybody who knows the effects of the media on the mind will know that if you tell people the same old thing over and over again it gets into the subconscious mind and they start believing it, particularly if they are not hearing any alternative. How many times this year have we heard how difficult it was going to be for teams to lift themselves for a third consecutive week running? That attitude HAS to affect players. You can take it both ways, you can believe it and let it sap your physical and psychological energy or you can see it as a challenge. Kilkenny prefer the latter. I'm noting in particular Brian Cody's comments after the defeat to Galway and a week before they played Limerick.
Kilkenny know that anything can happen in a game of hurling. How many times down the years have we heard Cody say that and that a 10 point lead is nothing, even late on in a game? That belief that you can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat has preserved many a Kilkenny cat's life in a game down the years. How many times have we seen games where Kilkenny have been beaten where the game fizzled out to an inevitable conclusion after their opponents were so far ahead? Very rarely, if ever.
It's their dogged refusal to accept defeat that gives a Kilkenny player that extra pep in their step and maintain their incredible intensity level when others don't appear to have the same energy levels, or make a half-hearted attempt to track an opponent. If we were closer to Clare last week earlier in the second half, we may not have seemed so flat. This was borne out by the energy surge we seemed to get once we got down to a three-point deficit.
Sportspeople, be they amateur or professional can train to the highest standards demanded. The ability and skill levels are often very very similar. However, more often than not what often separates the cream from the rest of the field is an inner belief and the right mental attitude. People say 'but that's Kilkenny for you'. Why is that? It's because they have chosen to adopt that attitude, not because of their success or their style of play or ability to train players any differently to any other county.
Sliotharyslope (Wexford) - Posts: 136 - 20/07/2018 17:16:05
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