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Replying To perfect10: "lets call a spade a spade.this year has been awful.
watching wexford hurling has not been enjoyable this year.i dont get to many games but i see enough.
we had lads training on christmas day and burnt out by may.they have looked tired throughout.
the sweeper works in the league because the ball cant get over the bar from 65 yards out.top teams are able to play around it and for me the writing was on the wall when kilkenny came down and bet us by 10 points.
we could have won every match this year if we had a reliable free taker.
look at the first half of limerick kilkenny.that is how you hurl.get the ball, move it,win your own ball.
i think we have a very strong 15-20 hurlers and we dont get the best out of them.
i think we have better players than the system we play.
i cant see davy coming back and i think we could do with a change.
i would love anthony daly,or depending on the U21s tom mullally?
eddie brennan managed a kk team who lost to westmeath.
no point worrying about who is not involved.
to be honest,i think the team should decide if they want davy back.
we also need our country board to stick up for us more.that match should never have been played in cork." The team should decide ???
A few years ago the players of the time were castigated for getting rid of John Meyler. You think the future is in revisiting that type of scenario ?
I presume you mean county board should stick up for us ? What's your obsession with not going to Cork ? You constantly tell us that you can't attend matches due to your work commitments, so what does it matter where the game was played.
yelowbelly (Wexford) - Posts: 409 - 15/07/2018 18:41:36
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The team most certainly should not decide. The team is finished for the year and they will only become Wexford players again once the new panel for next season is selected
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 15/07/2018 19:14:14
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I suppose it doesn't matter what system you play if you dont perform. A lad not being able to accurately pass a ball 10 yards has nothing to do with him being a corner back when he should be a midfielder.
Murphy shouldnt be sweeper next year. Id play Paudie Foley at sweeper personally. I think he would be as good as de burca. I thought Murphy was the poorest player we had yesterday and davy did foley no favours.
As they say in American Football. We need to take what the defence gives us. Simple as. Address our free taking. Take the points that the other team has essentially handed too us. This alone would get us alot closer to teams. Long range frees should t be random pot shots at the goal. We would be better served dropping them in on chin and mac.
Address our line balls. Its a basic skill.
I think everyones being harsh on Mcgovern. I actually thought he played good throughout along with mac. Yeah mac had 3 bad wides but he also scored 1-3 and his goal was like the old confident mac we all love. I think his long distance wides are down to confidence, hes not striking through the ball like he used too. Chin was also good in the second half and i wouldnt be too critical of him.
I dont agree with people saying we have a week panel because we dont. These guys were never given an opportunity so they havent been trusted. They wont develop without game time either.
Looking ahead to next year we need to do what everyone else is doing. Develop players and our hurling throughout the league with the aim of peaking in the championship. Instead of going out to win every league game by overpowering teams physically while they are going at 3/4's speed. We have been found out, the teams we were beating have developed their movement and skill drastically since then whole we haven't developed and lost our spark. Look at Meyler in his league press conferences, constantly referencing the championship. I would like to see 4-5 changes every week during he next league campaign. Either that or go and win the league.
Davy definitely needs to reasses our our goals moving forward. If he stays. I personally want him there next year. One more year. Id be careful what we wish for. The next guy could be a disaster.
Wexboi92 (Wexford) - Posts: 74 - 15/07/2018 20:56:04
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next guy could be a disaster,but we arent exactly shooting the lights out at present.
yellowbelly i dont get to many matches,but i heard all week long about people not going because it was in cork.i am also aware of the family commitments that people have.gaa is not #1 priority in everybody lives
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 15/07/2018 21:58:13
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Replying To perfect10: "one of the joys of shift work....i will be relying on hoganstand.com gurus.....i suspect the board will go quiet until walsh cup 2019" Alot of us dont have the same interest in the senior club scene because our local clubs arent senior. And club matches are spread out from fri evening all over the weekend noone works all day Saturday and Sunday every Saturday and Sunday.......
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12053 - 15/07/2018 23:18:16
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Replying To Viking66: "Alot of us dont have the same interest in the senior club scene because our local clubs arent senior. And club matches are spread out from fri evening all over the weekend noone works all day Saturday and Sunday every Saturday and Sunday......." yes but they are mainly friday evening,sat evening,sunday afternoon.
i have a family too.i will make a few matches hopefully.
a lot of clubs arent senior doesnt matter.a good hurler can come from anywhere.
i read jackie tyrell on twitter and he said wexford were gone stale.hard to disagree.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/07/2018 08:47:49
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Replying To beano: "I don't get this clamour over needing Division One hurling in order to compete at the top table. We played two top teams in the league stages last year (and even at that Galway were half-baked and Limerick didn't have a good year in general), and it done us no harm. Okay we also beat KK in both the league and championship, with the league win fueling the momentum that we fed off in Wexford Park, but let's be honest, no-one ever looks back at a successful league campaign with pride.
Championship is the be all and end all, and we shouldn't be essentially breaking our balls before 2017 is even out so we are flying over the heavy ground in February, if we run the risk of burning out come the summer. I literally couldn't give a damn who Wexford play in the league. And when you think about it, that seeps into IC manager's mind-sets too- after losing a game or two it's always: "ah sure the league is only for building up our fitness in preparation for the championship" or words to that effect.
Leinster alone this year will be a different kettle of fish, never mind anywhere beyond that. Kilkenny having two poor provincial campaigns in succession are as rare as hen's teeth under Cody, and Pat Gilroy's influence should raise Dublin up to the standards they had set themselves under Daly.
So in my mind, there is no need to be forcing amateur players back so early into training regimes that I guarantee would be seen as too excessive for professional athletes. Hurling is meant to be enjoyable, and it's hard enough to balance work/personal life with the increasingly unrealistic demands of inter-county hurling. Use the league as a breeding-ground for the new personnel we need to assimilate into the starting team, not as a barometer for our season.
Davy should save the heavy lifting for Ireland's Fittest Family for now." hugely disappointing for a number of reasons. Players looked out of form, touch was brutal, fitness didnt look great. No spark, no drive. That comes from the top. The sweeper tactics werent the reason we lost though, it was poor play. The sweeper might be an awful system, but it wasnt the defining factor on Saturday.
A small point on the utterly dismal attendance too, we have to be one of the worst bandwagoning supporters around. Shocking attendance. Bar an incident at Castlemartyr that caused a bit of traffic backlog, parking near the ground, getting to it and getting out after was no worse than anywhere else. To be honest, probably even a bit better than normal considering damn all turned up. 15,000 showing up at the better time and venue the following day, between 2 counties bordering Tipp shows that the time and venue made damn all difference at all. It was pathetic, and it is just excuses being trotted out about the time and venue being an issue. 28,000 went to Cork to watch Clare and Tipp on a Saturday afternoon last year.
I bet if we won though we'd hear plenty of Wexford fans moaning they couldnt get tickets and how unfair it all was.
james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 602 - 16/07/2018 10:09:44
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Replying To Wexboi92: "I suppose it doesn't matter what system you play if you dont perform. A lad not being able to accurately pass a ball 10 yards has nothing to do with him being a corner back when he should be a midfielder.
Murphy shouldnt be sweeper next year. Id play Paudie Foley at sweeper personally. I think he would be as good as de burca. I thought Murphy was the poorest player we had yesterday and davy did foley no favours.
As they say in American Football. We need to take what the defence gives us. Simple as. Address our free taking. Take the points that the other team has essentially handed too us. This alone would get us alot closer to teams. Long range frees should t be random pot shots at the goal. We would be better served dropping them in on chin and mac.
Address our line balls. Its a basic skill.
I think everyones being harsh on Mcgovern. I actually thought he played good throughout along with mac. Yeah mac had 3 bad wides but he also scored 1-3 and his goal was like the old confident mac we all love. I think his long distance wides are down to confidence, hes not striking through the ball like he used too. Chin was also good in the second half and i wouldnt be too critical of him.
I dont agree with people saying we have a week panel because we dont. These guys were never given an opportunity so they havent been trusted. They wont develop without game time either.
Looking ahead to next year we need to do what everyone else is doing. Develop players and our hurling throughout the league with the aim of peaking in the championship. Instead of going out to win every league game by overpowering teams physically while they are going at 3/4's speed. We have been found out, the teams we were beating have developed their movement and skill drastically since then whole we haven't developed and lost our spark. Look at Meyler in his league press conferences, constantly referencing the championship. I would like to see 4-5 changes every week during he next league campaign. Either that or go and win the league.
Davy definitely needs to reasses our our goals moving forward. If he stays. I personally want him there next year. One more year. Id be careful what we wish for. The next guy could be a disaster." Good article and I agree with a lot of what you say particularly in relation to to Liam Og. As regards the 10 yard pass - in hurling, backs should be trying to get the ball quickly out of the danger area and deliver it into space in front of a forward and not hurriedly tapping it to a player beside him who more often than not is being closely marked. Under the present system our mid fields/forwards are in a heap and closed down on our half forward line. Consequently, when the player in possession looks up to deliver a ball there is no available forward, hence the tippy pass. This happened throughout the championship game against Galway, against KK in Wexford Park, in the second half against Kilkenny in Nolan Park and again in Cork last Saturday. It's so frustrating to watch but I can only imagine what it's like for the players. So I don't agree that out poor decision making and execution is not caused by (Davy's) system.
At under 21 level Shaun Murphy was an outstanding left half back and looked to have a great hurling future. I was delighted to see him coming back after a series of bad injuries as I though he would boulster either the full back/half back lines or even midfield. However, for the last two years, he has been used as a sweeper in a shocking system and unfortunately for him and Wexford hurling it just hasn't worked.
I too would favour Davy staying on but with a changed system that would favour our forwards. Unfortunately his current system is all about keeping the oppositions scores down but at the expense of our own scoring opportunities. For the most part, the best hurling games this year involved both teams going full belt at each other allowing players to express themselves and playing with a 'let the best team win' attitude.
gminor (Wexford) - Posts: 488 - 16/07/2018 10:39:27
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Long term information leecher here. My synopsis for the year.
1. People saying the time and venue weren't the problem are partly right, partly wrong. The big reason there was such a paltry crowd is people are weary of what we are seeing. Watching Wexford this year has been very tedious. The only excitement being the last 5 minutes v Dublin and the first half v Kilkenny. The team looked flat and wore out v Kilkenny in the 2nd half. I think once they lost that, the momentum was lost. But lets be honest, 3pm in Cork, with people scarred from the long walk there last year, turned a lot of people off.
2. The brand of hurling we play has took us this far and will not take us any further. What makes hurling exciting? Goal chances, goalmouth action. We don't create any goal chances. When we needed a goal on Saturday, 10+ players were in our own half. WHY? I would rather risk we concede a goal or two, and maybe score 1 or two at the other end.
3. Our joint captains have not played a captains role this year. For me, Liam Ryan is our leader and should be given the job next year. I hope he gets an All-Star but being gone at the quarters might put paid to that.
4. Shaun Murphy is well able to get up the field and use the ball - why do we have him in this awful role?
5. Somebody said about training on Christmas Day - what sort of insanity is that. No wonder we are exhausted by May/June.
6. We need to treat the league for what it is, challenge matches, and try to be flying by June/July/August next year, not February.
6. Anthony Daly said we looked leggy v Kilkenny in the league - for me, we have looked leggy since then.
7. I think it is time for a change at the helm. For me, I would love to see Liam Sheedy or Anthony Daly given the job. I have never liked the way Davy conducts himself, on the line or in interviews.
8. Posters on here need to give up the "oh you are a bad supporter if you don't go to a game". I am not living in Wexford and get to little or no games but that doesn't make me less of a supporter than some lad who goes to 20 club matches next weekend. People have other commitments. The crowd in Thurles was poor yesterday too.
A lot of soul-searching to be done this winter.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 16/07/2018 10:45:19
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I have always liked Wexford & its people was disappointed in they way Team played vert flan and worn out looking
Sweeper days are dead and have been for a long time boring to watch really need new direction
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 891 - 16/07/2018 11:35:54
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I too would favour Davy staying on but with a changed system that would favour our forwards. Unfortunately his current system is all about keeping the oppositions scores down but at the expense of our own scoring opportunities. For the most part, the best hurling games this year involved both teams going full belt at each other allowing players to express themselves and playing with a 'let the best team win' attitude.
gminor (Wexford) - Posts: 441 - 16/07/2018 10:39:27 2122559
but if we were keeping the score down i could get that.but we are not.we are conceding massive scores,when have we conceded less than 20 points?
it works in the league.because long range points are hard to come by.once the ball dries,it is defunct.
agree on the best games,yesterday was pulsating and that is excitement that wexford matches lack.
i am more disappointed now than after any other quarter final loss,because we didnt have the hurlers in the bonner era say,now we do but are not playing to strengths.
we have 2-3 marquee forwards but dont seem to get anything like the best out of them.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/07/2018 11:58:04
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IMHO ... I'd rather Davy stay on and try 15 on 15 with very limited short puck out strategy.
As I have posted earlier, get in Seamus Casey to take the frees and that frees up (pun intended) Rory O'Connor to focus on scoring from play. He'll give you an 80% return anywhere from midfield up.
Then we have two forwards (Conor Mc and Rory O) that have the ability to score a few points/goals from play.
1 on 1, the likes of Conor Cooney is nearly unplayable on his day. I'd like to see Conor Mc and Rory O in 1:1 situations in the full forward line.
Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 16/07/2018 14:30:02
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Right lads few points I want to make this year in my opinion was always about staying in 1a and I think we peaked to quick but we're still up with the big boys next year...sweeper system needs to go ya can still protect your full back line by dropping all lines a bit deeper including half's backs midfield and half forwards like we played against Waterford in 2014 in nowlan Park in which we left loads of space for full forward line..shaun murphy does my head in the amount of scores he has gave away this year and last by poor distribution is unreal...would love Davy to stay and I think he will cause no where else will be available but needs to go back 15 v15 trust our backs...we need to trust our panel a bit more from what I heard the last 2 weeks Gary Molloy had been flying in training we need to get these lads in if it was Cody he would.... need to get everyone back next year including breen shore and guiney... our half back line lacks pace o hanlon and foley got burned alive at the weekend doe to this and between lack of speed and physicality in full back line with the exception of Ryan teams know how to hurt us.... team needs a positional shake up in my opinion starting with full back line if we could get breen back next year and Ryan at fullback I would get Murphy corner back with reck out at half back with Paudie Foley at 6 and o hanlon at 7 midfield I would have jack o and Kevin foley ... half forwards Nolan and d o keefe chin at 11 dropping back into the middle like a tony Kelly role... full forward would be Mac rory o and Sheamus Casey in the corners...ya could hit it long to mac or low fast ball to Casey and o Connor... look how limerick played against kk yesterday low fast ball even the likes of padraig Walsh struggled... go back to we played before 15 v 15 just p*sses me off cause there is more in that team ya can see the potential...
gannett83 (Wexford) - Posts: 287 - 16/07/2018 21:39:37
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Think we are all in agreement the only way we will progress under Davy is if he gets rid of sweeper system. I honestly don't care who is over us as long as we are improving and competing for silverware . Teams have found out Davys sweeper system since Clare's success in 2013. Throw the shackles off next year . Hopefully we keep this squad together and bring the likes of Gary Molloy , Darren Byrne and Seamus Casey game time early in the year .
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 16/07/2018 22:55:11
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The inevitable headlines about Davy's future, I just hope this is put to bed quickly one way ir the other. I was taken by the number if times in his post match interview when he referred to the team as "they" or "wexford". Surely it should be "we". I think Davy will go, I also think he has done a great job in lifting the team to a competitive level but a change of direction might be best.
dumptruck1 (Wexford) - Posts: 206 - 17/07/2018 08:00:33
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Replying To gannett83: "Right lads few points I want to make this year in my opinion was always about staying in 1a and I think we peaked to quick but we're still up with the big boys next year...sweeper system needs to go ya can still protect your full back line by dropping all lines a bit deeper including half's backs midfield and half forwards like we played against Waterford in 2014 in nowlan Park in which we left loads of space for full forward line..shaun murphy does my head in the amount of scores he has gave away this year and last by poor distribution is unreal...would love Davy to stay and I think he will cause no where else will be available but needs to go back 15 v15 trust our backs...we need to trust our panel a bit more from what I heard the last 2 weeks Gary Molloy had been flying in training we need to get these lads in if it was Cody he would.... need to get everyone back next year including breen shore and guiney... our half back line lacks pace o hanlon and foley got burned alive at the weekend doe to this and between lack of speed and physicality in full back line with the exception of Ryan teams know how to hurt us.... team needs a positional shake up in my opinion starting with full back line if we could get breen back next year and Ryan at fullback I would get Murphy corner back with reck out at half back with Paudie Foley at 6 and o hanlon at 7 midfield I would have jack o and Kevin foley ... half forwards Nolan and d o keefe chin at 11 dropping back into the middle like a tony Kelly role... full forward would be Mac rory o and Sheamus Casey in the corners...ya could hit it long to mac or low fast ball to Casey and o Connor... look how limerick played against kk yesterday low fast ball even the likes of padraig Walsh struggled... go back to we played before 15 v 15 just p*sses me off cause there is more in that team ya can see the potential..." I just gave up trying to read this piece when I saw the bit about being "up with the big boys next year". . . . . .
Where does that leave Galway ????
yelowbelly (Wexford) - Posts: 409 - 17/07/2018 08:14:12
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Wexford's year began to unravel in the league game v Kilkenny in Nowlan Park, a win that day would have knocked Kilkenny out and put them back firmly in their box.
We then got a pasting from them a couple of weeks later and the cracks were beginning to show.
We were blessed to get out of jail v Dublin (I will admit that showed true character in the team)
Galway hurled us out the gate at ease in Wexford Park, We had Kilkenny on the ropes in Nowlan Park but when leaders were need to step up there was none.
And ultimately we were hurled out the gate in a miserable game in Pairc Ui Chaoimh v Clare.
Maybe expectations need to be kept in check. A lot of our players under performed for the full championship.
Is being a Division 1A team any different from being a Division 1B team I dont think so, bar a few extra pound on the gate it appears to make no difference.
If Davy stays he has to change the tactics, he has to start changing up the team a little, maybe a change at captain level also, and pick one captain of the team to freshen things up.
I honestly did not think in 1996 that we would go another 28 years without winning Liam McCarthy, we are now 22 years in the wilderness and after a fourth quarter final defeat in five years I don't think we are really any closer to winning an All Ireland or getting into one.
Is Davy worth the money? Is any outsider worth that kind of money? Would we be better off with a Wexford man leading the team? I might be wrong with this but has any outsider since Michael Bond in Offaly in 1998 won an All Ireland with a hurling team?
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 17/07/2018 09:45:01
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You see the issue we have is what waterford and clare faced ... davy changing his style .. the previous two tell you that he won't. The sweeper for all intense and purpose is set up to protect our defence... it failed badly in nowlan park with a 9 point lead at half time.
Aside from the sweeper my issue is through the league fannings puckouts were a weakness. Murphys distribution was a weakness. Our wide count (lack of scoring ) was a weakness.
Now in the championship all three were a weakness. If the league is for righting wrongs of the championship then what is it for ?
Also agree with the poster that said its the same subs time and again. We all knew the fixtures for the championship well in advance. We all knew we needed strength and depth but it would seem we didnt have it.
I have to admit if davy continues with the sweeper system i want him gone because i just cant see where the next step in our progression is coming for.
It is so hard to sustain training christmas day and other countless days when you seem no closer to silver wear.
wexcore (Wexford) - Posts: 740 - 17/07/2018 09:56:52
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A lot of people complain about sweepers because they want hurling to be attacking and man on man. I would have no problem with a manager playing a sweeper system, if it is what suits the team and gets them a degree of success.
However, the sweeper system just does not seem to suit Wexford. It got us a bit of joy in the league when the conditions mean slower hurling and teams are not flat out. In the championship though, how effective has it really been?
We have lost 5 of the 6 games against top 8 opposition in the last 2 years and in those 5 defeats we really have only been close in one (when we threw away a 9 point lead in Nowlan Park, which the sweeper system is meant to protect).
At the other end of the pitch our forwards have a thankless task as they are so outnumbered and have to work so hard just to get a shot on goal. In our 5 big games this year,league semi and 4 championship games (can't consider Offaly a big game) our forwards averaged just 6 scores from play. You can't expect to win Championship games if forwards are only contributing 6 scores.
The sweeper system is designed to contain opposition but you need an attacking game plan to go with it.
On Saturday the Clare defence would have been low on confidence after the manner of the defeat to Cork. Instead of going after that defence by pushing up on them, Wexford let them off the hook and made it easy for them to get on ball and get their confidence back. On the rare occasions we did push up in second half and get bodies inside the 21, we created 3 goal chances. Yet we went straight back to 2 man ff line after each of those chances and ended up hitting bad wides from 90 yards, when playing those balls in to a ff line of Conor Mac, Chin and McGovern would have created scoring chances.
So not only does the system not work, but the inflexibility and refusal to change it only compounds the error.
Azamat (Wexford) - Posts: 39 - 17/07/2018 10:57:00
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I have to admit if davy continues with the sweeper system i want him gone because i just cant see where the next step in our progression is coming for.
It is so hard to sustain training christmas day and other countless days when you seem no closer to silver wear.
wexcore (Wexford) - Posts: 694 - 17/07/2018 09:56:52 2123015
agree.but i also think train on christmas day is just ridiculous nonsense.would rather we got relegated to 1b and gave championship a good shot than have a good league and be wrecked when championship comes around.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/07/2018 11:08:04
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