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Replying To donegal_insider: "The various ways it could be split will leave the leagues like this for 2018:
Leaving the leagues as they are:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Division 2
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Division 3
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Division 4:
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: This is what teams have been planning for all year. Teams have 16 games to find their level.
Cons: Season started at the beginning of March, and is still going nearly into November. A lot of games played without county players.
3 Tiers of 13 teams:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
Division 2:
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Division 3:
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: 13 teams in a division, so more scope for avoiding relegation. County players available for all games. More variety in teams being played and more scope for teams to make gradual improvements.
Cons: Only 12 games in a season so a couple of badly timed injuries/suspensions could badly affect some teams. 2 Junior teams in Division 2 with Intermediate team in Division 3. Not a lot of fixtures for club player to be training for (although regional league might help that).
Top 2 Tiers of 15:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Division 2:
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Division 3:
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: 14 games in a season to find own level but still 4 weeks less fixtures than current situation.
Cons: Big difference in quality of teams in each League. Teams will have to be without County players for some fixtures.
My own preference is for the status quo, but that doesn't seem likely so next best would be the 13 team divisions, with a regional league for non-county players. It might lead to some one-sided games - Gweedore v Na Rossa or St Eunans v Lifford, but I think teams will know enough to know they can't learn anything from being full strength and hammering some team so will use it to field a few Reserve and U21 players. There's also the possibility of running a non-county players league based on the current format for 2018, but with promotion and relegation for the following year to help teams find their level." look with those leagues you have suggested at 2 teams-F.Master and Killybegs, they each have won 3 games out of 17 played and you want them to stay in the division they are in, both are relegated to lower division and thats where they should be with games played this year , some clubs are just looking at status and their right to play higher division,quite a few more there are in the same boat as the 2 mentioned they will be relegated to a lower league and you have promoted the likes of Glen and Ardara they havent the right to be up a division as the never won it to be there, the more posts being posted here the pattern becomes clearer as far as I can see,rig the leagues to suit some clubs!
PastandPresent (Donegal) - Posts: 345 - 20/10/2017 13:35:40
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Good stuff Donegal Insider. Clearly laid out.
My preference too is for the status quo. One of the pros you didn't mention is that 6 teams get promoted each year, instead of 4 under the other proposals.
Take N Muire and St Nauls. They're going to be promoted in the league, which makes their season (the league, at least) a success. Same for N Rossa and Convoy.
Yes, teams are worried about relegation, but the flip side is others get promoted.
The regional league has nothing to recommend it. It's a con alright, a con job with which certain clubs hope to buy off club players.
If your own preference is for the status quo, will you work to make sure that your club votes that way when the time comes?
We don't need to settle for second best for all club players, just to accommodate a handful of clubs who huff because their county man can't play every single game with them.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 20/10/2017 13:49:04
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Good stuff Donegal Insider. Clearly laid out.
My preference too is for the status quo. One of the pros you didn't mention is that 6 teams get promoted each year, instead of 4 under the other proposals.
Take N Muire and St Nauls. They're going to be promoted in the league, which makes their season (the league, at least) a success. Same for N Rossa and Convoy.
Yes, teams are worried about relegation, but the flip side is others get promoted.
The regional league has nothing to recommend it. It's a con alright, a con job with which certain clubs hope to buy off club players.
If your own preference is for the status quo, will you work to make sure that your club votes that way when the time comes?
We don't need to settle for second best for all club players, just to accommodate a handful of clubs who huff because their county man can't play every single game with them.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 20/10/2017 15:10:52
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Past and Present.
You're right. Clubs will vote in their short term interest to save their bacon the following season.
They don't think about the overall health of the leagues and competition in the county. It's just short term thinking.
This business of voting at the back end of every season is a very bad one. If they are going to make major changes to leagues, it should be done with 12 months notice so everyone knows where they stand.
Take Convoy. 20 years trying to win promotion from Division 4, but a vote in a committee room can keep them down.
Some of the 'big' clubs couldn't give a toss about 'wee' clubs and will do whatever it takes to save their own skins.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 20/10/2017 15:34:15
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Replying To PastandPresent: "look with those leagues you have suggested at 2 teams-F.Master and Killybegs, they each have won 3 games out of 17 played and you want them to stay in the division they are in, both are relegated to lower division and thats where they should be with games played this year , some clubs are just looking at status and their right to play higher division,quite a few more there are in the same boat as the 2 mentioned they will be relegated to a lower league and you have promoted the likes of Glen and Ardara they havent the right to be up a division as the never won it to be there, the more posts being posted here the pattern becomes clearer as far as I can see,rig the leagues to suit some clubs!" U r definitely stuck in the past as ur name eludes to. The leagues here in Donegal are taken a bit too seriously by a couple of clubs, usually the clubs who have no tradition in championship.Nobody cares about league football. It's all about championship. Never mind about leagues and just give lads football every week in the summer months. Organise games for them so they stick with the gaa, rather than have our club players frustrated and losing interest in our game. The most important thing is to keep these players and the way to do that is to give them games every week
ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 725 - 20/10/2017 16:38:36
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Replying To PastandPresent: "look with those leagues you have suggested at 2 teams-F.Master and Killybegs, they each have won 3 games out of 17 played and you want them to stay in the division they are in, both are relegated to lower division and thats where they should be with games played this year , some clubs are just looking at status and their right to play higher division,quite a few more there are in the same boat as the 2 mentioned they will be relegated to a lower league and you have promoted the likes of Glen and Ardara they havent the right to be up a division as the never won it to be there, the more posts being posted here the pattern becomes clearer as far as I can see,rig the leagues to suit some clubs!" U r definitely stuck in the past as ur name eludes to. The leagues here in Donegal are taken a bit too seriously by a couple of clubs, usually the clubs who have no tradition in championship.Nobody cares about league football. It's all about championship. Never mind about leagues and just give lads football every week in the summer months. Organise games for them so they stick with the gaa, rather than have our club players frustrated and losing interest in our game. The most important thing is to keep these players and the way to do that is to give them games every week
ryan (Donegal) - Posts: 725 - 20/10/2017 16:38:56
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Replying To ryan: "U r definitely stuck in the past as ur name eludes to. The leagues here in Donegal are taken a bit too seriously by a couple of clubs, usually the clubs who have no tradition in championship.Nobody cares about league football. It's all about championship. Never mind about leagues and just give lads football every week in the summer months. Organise games for them so they stick with the gaa, rather than have our club players frustrated and losing interest in our game. The most important thing is to keep these players and the way to do that is to give them games every week" Ryan, if anything your reply gives the notion of self importance for you and your club, What do you mean clubs with Tradition,is that clubs who have won senior championships? I would think myself clubs who play the bread and butter leagues as the clubs with tradition in playing our games as it gives supporters and families the chances to watch and support our games weekly! Club footballers want football week in week out and nowhere did I say not to give it to them,its best to read comments before replying!
PastandPresent (Donegal) - Posts: 345 - 21/10/2017 10:33:27
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Some notable league results yesterday.
Promotion and relegation being decided on the whim of whether your opponent has anything to play for.
Only one solution.
Complete the league by August, before the club championship starts. That way, every team will still be striving for results/performances and the league will have more integrity.
The alternative being proposed (3 Divisions of 13, or 2x15 and 1x9) is to have even more lop-sided and dead rubber games at the end of the season because midtable sides will have less to play for.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 23/10/2017 10:12:27
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I posted on another thread but here's Donegals fixture list for 2018:
League:
Sun 28th January Away to Kerry
Sun 4th February Home to Galway
Sat 10th February Away to Dublin
Sun 25th February Home to Kildare
Sat 3rd March Away to Tyrone
Sun 18th March Away to Monaghan
Sun 25th March Home to Mayo
Sun 1st April League Final
Ulster Championship
Sun 13th May v Cavan
Sun 27th May v Derry
Sun 10th June v Down/Antrim
Sun 24th June Ulster Final
Qualifiers:
Sat 9th June Round 1
Sat 23rd June Round 2
Sat 30th June Round 3
Sat/Sun 7/8th July Round 4
All-Ireland Series
July 14/15 Super 8 Round 1
July 21/22 Super 8 Round 2
August 4/5/6 Super 8 Round 3
August 11/12 All Ireland Semi
September 2 All Ireland Final
Could maybe get 2 rounds of fixtures played on March 17th & 24th, but with Donegal playing in League there'd probably be no County players available. Double round over Easter and then 4 other weekends in April means the maximum we can hope to have played by the end of April is 8 rounds of fixtures, but at least 2 of those will need to be starred and Declan Bonner might want to have a training weekend so maybe even 3 starred fixtures from 8 rounds by end of April.
Then the county takes over, with games every 2 weeks depending on how far we get. Ulster Final is a real possibility so I'd imagine County players won't be available from 6th of May to 15th July (if Donegal lose Ulster Final and Round 4 qualifier) or 11th August (if Donegal win Ulster or Round 4 qualifier). Clubs either play without County players, or the All-County League comes to a halt for a period of time between 4 to 13 weeks depending on how Donegal do. A regional, or non-county players, League will probably be needed to pick up the slack.
I was against the idea of the 13 team divisions with only 12 games, but with this tight a calendar, I think it's the best way to go now.
Get 8 rounds played before Donegal start, run off regional/non-county players League while Donegal are in Ulster/Qualifiers/Super 8, and then play 2 rounds of All-County League once Donegal are out to get teams tuned up and then start into Championship.
2 Rounds of Championship, 1 Round All County League, Final Round of Group, Final Round of All County League, Quarter Final, Free week, Semi-Final, Free week, County Final.
Regional League can be played midweek if it's not finished before Donegal are out.
If Donegal were to make it to Super 8 and get knocked out, the Senior Championship would be played on August 26, September 2, September 16, QF September 30, Semi October 14, Final October 28. If you scrap the gap between last group game and quarter, you can pull it forward a week but not much more.
donegal_insider (Donegal) - Posts: 584 - 02/11/2017 11:23:26
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Surely the 13 tier league makes sense. But these proposal should be alerted to clubs at the start of a season, have a target to aim for; ie division 2 teams would be going for top 3. We've had enough issues last time when a bit of a restructure, what I recall was 2011, two teams took the mick, acted like clown and continuously refused to play a play off until both got promoted.
13 teams-Less long distance travelling. Lads are travelling from Galway, Dublin and the likes. Then spending another 4 hours on a Saturday or Sunday trawling the county for league games.
County men being able to be involved in early games would be great also. Set the schedule, it's embarassing we had clubs last season call of games because they had 1 player on under 21 county panels; surely they arent going to fully influence a teams result? The other 14 should step up.
League over early, we've time to enjoy our county team. Regional League clearly will be competitive, lads battling for championship places. Lads love playing football, will condense the season. Hopefully see less walkovers. Crying shame where you see teams fulfil fixtures one week then not the other; demoralizing for lads not getting game time.
We seem to like to stay behind in Donegal, it took an age to revolutionize a redunant and historic championship system of two legged matches. Theres no incentive for Reserve teams to win titles when they cant get promotions. We should have 7/8 division where reserve teams are treated separately, like other counties. Senior team is the be all and end all of course, but this would help the reserve teams. Senior teams should take a panel of 22, that would suffice.
donegal1992 (Donegal) - Posts: 226 - 02/11/2017 11:37:11
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12 competitive league games with county players available and no dead rubbers with the championship around the corner
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 02/11/2017 21:34:24
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Replying To crnm: "12 competitive league games with county players available and no dead rubbers with the championship around the corner" Hard to understand why you want so few games for club players?
Just 12 games plus championship isnt attractive to club players.
And for what? To accommodate 8-10 teams that couldn't agree to starred games for these past number of years.
What a way to reward the whingers.
Leave the leagues as they are. Play the games when they're set for. Finished by August with the championship to follow.
6 teams promoted, 6 teams relegated across the 4 Divisions.
The problem is, some arrogant clubs think that they should never be relegated and would wilfully wreck our leagues to preserve their own position.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 03/11/2017 08:35:30
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Replying To crnm: "12 competitive league games with county players available and no dead rubbers with the championship around the corner" Hard to understand why you want so few games for club players?
Just 12 games plus championship isnt attractive to club players.
And for what? To accommodate 8-10 teams that couldn't agree to starred games for these past number of years.
What a way to reward the whingers.
Leave the leagues as they are. Play the games when they're set for. Finished by August with the championship to follow.
6 teams promoted, 6 teams relegated across the 4 Divisions.
The problem is, some arrogant clubs think that they should never be relegated and would wilfully wreck our leagues to preserve their own position.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 03/11/2017 09:56:39
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B-bap Just looking to find a solution that's fair to everybody. If you introduced a regional league with 6 fixtures which you could play mid week if needed then that brings it up to 18.You said yourself that nobody takes the league seroius and it's all about championship so why run down a regional league?
It's really starting to hit the headlines with Kevin Cassidys article in the Gaelic life last week and donegal daily had an article up aswell about the fanad v red Hugh's game last weekend.
Something has to change, either reduce the amount of teams in the leagues or increase them to bring the fixtures down to free up an odd weekend, then players could plan for a holiday/wedding/stag etc
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 03/11/2017 14:25:42
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Replying To B.Bap: "Hard to understand why you want so few games for club players?
Just 12 games plus championship isnt attractive to club players.
And for what? To accommodate 8-10 teams that couldn't agree to starred games for these past number of years.
What a way to reward the whingers.
Leave the leagues as they are. Play the games when they're set for. Finished by August with the championship to follow.
6 teams promoted, 6 teams relegated across the 4 Divisions.
The problem is, some arrogant clubs think that they should never be relegated and would wilfully wreck our leagues to preserve their own position." I have to agree with B.Bap. As a player I'm currently looking at staring training in early Jan for 4 league games during April and very little if any then during May & June depending on how Donegal do. I think this is a very hard sell to the club players and will encourage more lads to go to away for the Summer. People have said the league means nothing, well what is a regional league going to mean when you have Div1 v Div4 teams? From a players point of view you want to be playing teams in around your own level to help you improve. Kilcar vs Naomh Ultan or St Eunans v Letterkenny Gaels is going to do nothing for either team!
dgl_gaa (Donegal) - Posts: 71 - 03/11/2017 14:42:32
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Replying To crnm: "B-bap Just looking to find a solution that's fair to everybody. If you introduced a regional league with 6 fixtures which you could play mid week if needed then that brings it up to 18.You said yourself that nobody takes the league seroius and it's all about championship so why run down a regional league?
It's really starting to hit the headlines with Kevin Cassidys article in the Gaelic life last week and donegal daily had an article up aswell about the fanad v red Hugh's game last weekend.
Something has to change, either reduce the amount of teams in the leagues or increase them to bring the fixtures down to free up an odd weekend, then players could plan for a holiday/wedding/stag etc" What has to change is clubs refusing to play league games without their county players.
A minority of clubs - less than 10 of our 40 clubs - huff about playing without a county player.
They, and a few other clubs who want to protect themselves from relegation, are driving this.
If we follow the interpro rugby plan, and accept that 26 county players named in a squad, won't play every league game with their club, then we can run 4 quality leagues, as competitive as th
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 03/11/2017 16:28:35
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Replying To crnm: "B-bap Just looking to find a solution that's fair to everybody. If you introduced a regional league with 6 fixtures which you could play mid week if needed then that brings it up to 18.You said yourself that nobody takes the league seroius and it's all about championship so why run down a regional league?
It's really starting to hit the headlines with Kevin Cassidys article in the Gaelic life last week and donegal daily had an article up aswell about the fanad v red Hugh's game last weekend.
Something has to change, either reduce the amount of teams in the leagues or increase them to bring the fixtures down to free up an odd weekend, then players could plan for a holiday/wedding/stag etc" What has to change is clubs refusing to play league games without their county players.
A minority of clubs - less than 10 of our 40 clubs - huff about playing without a county player.
They, and a few other clubs who want to protect themselves from relegation, are driving this.
If we follow the interpro rugby plan, and accept that 26 county players named in a big match squad, won't play every league game with their club, then we can run 4 quality leagues, as competitive as this years was, from March to August, with inbuilt free weekends, and have them finished ahead of the championship.
6 teams promoted, 6 teams relegated.
Consistent, club football for players all summer to a set fixture list.
It's not rocket science.
It's very simple. County players are freed from club games if they're named in the 26. The rest of the squad can play.
Do the 1500 club players in the county really deserve to have no football from May-August because a handful of clubs with players in the 26 won't play?
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 03/11/2017 16:34:02
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Club players are the strength of the GAA so they must get games during the summer , the league should be played right through from start to finish and be over before the championship starts i.e. after County team exits the All Ireland series. Clubs should play without their County players who are in the 26 listed for match day. Relegation is not the end of the world for them if that happens , but it will rarely happen and leave us with a good competitive league and happy players when they know when their games are on and Managers can arrange training without wondering when they will have a game
culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 03/11/2017 17:25:37
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Replying To crnm: "B-bap Just looking to find a solution that's fair to everybody. If you introduced a regional league with 6 fixtures which you could play mid week if needed then that brings it up to 18.You said yourself that nobody takes the league seroius and it's all about championship so why run down a regional league?
It's really starting to hit the headlines with Kevin Cassidys article in the Gaelic life last week and donegal daily had an article up aswell about the fanad v red Hugh's game last weekend.
Something has to change, either reduce the amount of teams in the leagues or increase them to bring the fixtures down to free up an odd weekend, then players could plan for a holiday/wedding/stag etc" What has to change is clubs refusing to play league games without their county players.
A minority of clubs - less than 10 of our 40 clubs - huff about playing without a county player.
They, and a few other clubs who want to protect themselves from relegation, are driving this.
If we follow the interpro rugby plan, and accept that 26 county players named in a big match squad, won't play every league game with their club, then we can run 4 quality leagues, as competitive as this years was, from March to August, with inbuilt free weekends, and have them finished ahead of the championship.
6 teams promoted, 6 teams relegated.
Consistent, club football for players all summer to a set fixture list.
It's not rocket science.
It's very simple. County players are freed from club games if they're named in the 26. The rest of the squad can play.
Do the 1500 club players in the county really deserve to have no football from May-August because a handful of clubs with players in the 26 won't play?
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 03/11/2017 18:10:12
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Nothing wrong with wanting a level playing for all. I believe a system can be worked out to suit all, I believe in equality. Having the leagues finished by August would be great. I believe the interest generated by this topic is good and debate is the way forward for change. Something has to give with more county games in the calendar
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 03/11/2017 19:00:25
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