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Hear a lot of chat about the new league proposal, what exactly is the proposal with respect to the leagues and format???
emmetdoc (Donegal) - Posts: 1 - 14/10/2017 22:15:48
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As far as I can make out they are considering extending division one two and three into 13 team divisions. That way each team will only have 12 fixtures with 6 at home and 6 away playing each team only once. There will be no star fixtures so teams who have county players won't be at a disadvantage anymore. Also with the super 8's in the summer the county team could have a potential 2-3 more games so windows of opportunity to play league games will be slim. It will make for better games as teams will be at full strength. At the moment the way the leagues are structured you will have a minimum of two senior teams in division 3 (Burt and killybegs) next year and two intermediate teams in division one (aodh ruadh and cloughaneely)
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 15/10/2017 11:49:17
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Replying To crnm: "As far as I can make out they are considering extending division one two and three into 13 team divisions. That way each team will only have 12 fixtures with 6 at home and 6 away playing each team only once. There will be no star fixtures so teams who have county players won't be at a disadvantage anymore. Also with the super 8's in the summer the county team could have a potential 2-3 more games so windows of opportunity to play league games will be slim. It will make for better games as teams will be at full strength. At the moment the way the leagues are structured you will have a minimum of two senior teams in division 3 (Burt and killybegs) next year and two intermediate teams in division one (aodh ruadh and cloughaneely)" The new league proposal is designed to kill off club football
No games for club players for May, June and July and August, if Donegal make go on a run.
And for what?
What club player will want to play March and April??stop til August.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 17/10/2017 16:47:35
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Replying To B.Bap: "The new league proposal is designed to kill off club football
No games for club players for May, June and July and August, if Donegal make go on a run.
And for what?
What club player will want to play March and April??stop til August." I can see divisonal leagues being set up for the summer months to keep teams ticking over and it also means club players can plan holidays and know they won't have to cancel them. I think the new structure is a great idea as it will cut out the chance of playing pointless league games in October and November. Teams take the league too seriously by refusing to play without county players and letting games build up. I think it's gonna be a slow process but at least the ball has starting rolling somewhat at sorting out the fixtures.
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 18/10/2017 11:06:43
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Replying To Mobot: "I can see divisonal leagues being set up for the summer months to keep teams ticking over and it also means club players can plan holidays and know they won't have to cancel them. I think the new structure is a great idea as it will cut out the chance of playing pointless league games in October and November. Teams take the league too seriously by refusing to play without county players and letting games build up. I think it's gonna be a slow process but at least the ball has starting rolling somewhat at sorting out the fixtures." Divisional leagues are a cod. Ask club players if they want to play meaningless games form May to August.
What clubs are refusing to play league games without county players? Let them be named and shamed. I'll start with one club, and there's no more than a handful of others: Ardara.
Should we reward them by cancelling meaningful club football for everyone for 3-4 months.
If the clubs of the county allow themselves to be held to ransom by the usual suspects, then shame on them.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 18/10/2017 12:22:09
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Replying To B.Bap: "Divisional leagues are a cod. Ask club players if they want to play meaningless games form May to August.
What clubs are refusing to play league games without county players? Let them be named and shamed. I'll start with one club, and there's no more than a handful of others: Ardara.
Should we reward them by cancelling meaningful club football for everyone for 3-4 months.
If the clubs of the county allow themselves to be held to ransom by the usual suspects, then shame on them." As a former club player myself not living in the county when I played I would really of appreciated a fixture list drawn up that was going to be followed. I lost count of the amount of times I had travelled back to Donegal to play a league game only for it to be called off the day before and then having to travel home after the championship was over to play pointless league games in wintery conditions. You say name the clubs.....For me it's easier to name the club (with county players) that tried their best to fulfil a fixture and that was St Eunans. They were always willing to play but maybe that's because they didn't have to worry abouth the risk of relegation but that didn't stop other teams that were at the top end of the league from refusing to play. The county board have given in to these clubs too easily in the past and also made the fixtures up as the go along at times. I think all clubs players will be happy if a fixture list was done up at the beginning of the year so that plans can be made around their own fixtures. Clubs will have to also get used to playing certain league games without their county players because at the end of the day the league isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. In saying that increasing the number of teams in the league might make it easier for clubs to fulfill the scheduled games as there will be a smaller chance of relegation etc. but who rememebers or really cares who wins the league and getting relegated in the league doesn't effect your championship status anyways.
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 18/10/2017 13:08:37
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Playing club games in mid march was tried last year and because of the weather I think the first two rounds were called off because of unplayable pitches/safety concerns,
The county team finish up the NFL on the 25th of march (not unless they make the league final), so starting the league on the following weekend (1/4/18) would make sense.
As it stands clubs are now preparing from December/ early January for the year ahead, with the current structure the leagues only finish at the end of October (which is early this year considering the past few years games have ran close to Christmas), this is only giving club players 6 to 8 weeks of a break before pre season training kicks in. Hopefully by restructuring, the leagues could be finished by the end of September allowing an extra 4 weeks
As mentioned in the previous post this will allow an odd weekend off to plan for holidays and also the club championship could be spread out instead of playing two games in a week.
The leagues would be a level playing field as teams would have their county players available.
With the possibility of our county team reaching the super 8's this means extra games which means congesting the leagues even more. We need to reduce the league fixtures somehow or else the welfare of the club player will suffer furthermore
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 18/10/2017 13:22:23
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Replying To crnm: "Playing club games in mid march was tried last year and because of the weather I think the first two rounds were called off because of unplayable pitches/safety concerns,
The county team finish up the NFL on the 25th of march (not unless they make the league final), so starting the league on the following weekend (1/4/18) would make sense.
As it stands clubs are now preparing from December/ early January for the year ahead, with the current structure the leagues only finish at the end of October (which is early this year considering the past few years games have ran close to Christmas), this is only giving club players 6 to 8 weeks of a break before pre season training kicks in. Hopefully by restructuring, the leagues could be finished by the end of September allowing an extra 4 weeks
As mentioned in the previous post this will allow an odd weekend off to plan for holidays and also the club championship could be spread out instead of playing two games in a week.
The leagues would be a level playing field as teams would have their county players available.
With the possibility of our county team reaching the super 8's this means extra games which means congesting the leagues even more. We need to reduce the league fixtures somehow or else the welfare of the club player will suffer furthermore" Crnm, I think your missing a rather obvious point - the club season can't be organised around the county season...even if they cut the league to just 12 games.
We can't give over March, May, June, July and, maybe August if Donegal do well, to county football alone.
Think about it logically.
There arent enough weeks in April, August and September to play 12 league games, plus 3 to 6 championship games, and be red up by the end of September in time for the Ulster club championships, which are also being brought forward to that the club All Ireland can be completed in the calendar year.
That being the case, we will have to play club league games alongside county games. Clubs had better get their heads around that and quick. The clubs who huff and complain about star fixtures and not having county players CAN NOT be allowed to wreck club football for the rest.
Unless they think we should reduce league games even further, down to say 6 or 8, which is what the typical first choice county player plays with his club at the moment.
Some of those starred clubs are so blind to what they're about, it wouldn't surprise me that they'd think like that.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 18/10/2017 14:52:05
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Replying To Mobot: "As a former club player myself not living in the county when I played I would really of appreciated a fixture list drawn up that was going to be followed. I lost count of the amount of times I had travelled back to Donegal to play a league game only for it to be called off the day before and then having to travel home after the championship was over to play pointless league games in wintery conditions. You say name the clubs.....For me it's easier to name the club (with county players) that tried their best to fulfil a fixture and that was St Eunans. They were always willing to play but maybe that's because they didn't have to worry abouth the risk of relegation but that didn't stop other teams that were at the top end of the league from refusing to play. The county board have given in to these clubs too easily in the past and also made the fixtures up as the go along at times. I think all clubs players will be happy if a fixture list was done up at the beginning of the year so that plans can be made around their own fixtures. Clubs will have to also get used to playing certain league games without their county players because at the end of the day the league isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. In saying that increasing the number of teams in the league might make it easier for clubs to fulfill the scheduled games as there will be a smaller chance of relegation etc. but who rememebers or really cares who wins the league and getting relegated in the league doesn't effect your championship status anyways." Points well made Mobot.
Give club players regular, meaningful games and don't try to fob them off with a half baked regional league.
Set the fixtures and stick to them, regardless of how county fixtures are going.
Eunans get it. They know it's more important to play regularly than to cancel games every turnaround.
I know this bothers certain clubs, but so what if clubs get relegated? Sure someone else gets promoted, and the relegated side will get their chance t be promoted the following year.
Those certain clubs need to accept that that don't have a divine right to stay in Division 1 or Division 2.
As you say, Championship is what it's all about and what league your in doesn't matter for championship.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 18/10/2017 14:58:29
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Just check out the clubs doing the talking about bigger leagues, Glenswilly,Dungloe,Bundoran,Killybegs,Buncrana,Termon,Malin and you will see a pattern, all struggling at the bottom of their leagues! The bigger problem was talked about very little before the super 8 was voted on, where did the club players fit into the plan and nobody gave an answer. It was bad enough the way it was but now they are been told maybe no league football in the summer months, you wonder what is all for,35 county players and clubs saying their not going to play star games with out county players v Club players getting no football, thats where I see it at present. Not going to be easy to fix thats for sure,but to think micky mouse regional leagues is going to solve it is wishfull thinking on someones part. How will it improve say Pettigo v F.Master or Ballyshannon. Na Rossa or N.Mhuire v Dungloe or Naomh Conall or Gweedore. N.Colmcille or Downings v Eunans or Glenswilly or St'Michaels, in Inishowen their probably on on par,with Mccools/Glenfin being the strongest in the valley,but could emmetts,convoy or lifford compete there? Or is there a notion of Divisions in the regional leagues?? Were very much going into an unknown with the stuff being talked about in bigger leagues, regional leagues or anything else for that matter,as I posted on a different thread our football is in need of something drastic after the senior county final last sunday!
PastandPresent (Donegal) - Posts: 345 - 18/10/2017 17:42:35
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The simple truth is that all non-county club players want a game every week in the league and to have all their county players available for the championship. We are all members of clubs and all clubs with county players are to blame for not playing games because of county players involvement in county games.
There is a few solutions:
1. We go the rugby route. Provincial rugby clubs still play games even when their top players are on international duty so let our leagues run with the fixtures no matter if a county player is away with the county or not.
2. The County panel is named at the start of the National Football League and these players won't be available to their clubs until Donegal are out of the championship at which point the club championship starts.
The star games don't work as some players have become county players and only token club players as they save themselves for the county so it is impossible to pair club teams on simply the number of county players. Some county players only want to be involved with their clubs when the county scene is over yet the rest of the club players sit around waiting on them.
One other problem is that games are called off much to easily. Division 4 have no county players yet games are called off there too. A correspondance need to be sent to all clubs on what grounds a game can be called off, i.e. death of a club officer, player, manager, parent of a player etc. but not the first cousin of the corner forward who lives in timbucktoo!
I personally would like to see option 1 above put in place. If Donegal are playing on a Sunday then have a full fixture schedule on the Saturday evening. At one time you had to retain a certain league position to retain your senior club championship status but this is now decided on your championship performance so there the excuse that by getting relegated from Division 1 because you had no county players shouldn't make a difference. The 90% of club players would have a game every week, training would mean something and you would have a nice long break in the winter. The day you are knocked out of the championship is the day you start your break!
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 18/10/2017 21:49:29
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Hear hear, Tir Conaill Abu.
Option 1 is what's needed for the good of the overall game in the county. Play club football regardless of county fixtures - adult and u20. Inter Pro Rugby shows the model.
To be honest, doing it this way would probably be a relief to the county players too as it would save them some grief within their own clubs.
Play club league football March to August. That's 18 games over 24 weekends.
Then play the championship in August - September. The club season is over for everyone once you're knocked out of the championship.
County players named in the matchday squad can't play with their club within a fortnight of a championship game, but the rest can play club league. Everyone is there for the championship.
The important thing though is club players get to decide the structure, not the suits that go to county board meetings.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 19/10/2017 13:37:15
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Replying To B.Bap: "Hear hear, Tir Conaill Abu.
Option 1 is what's needed for the good of the overall game in the county. Play club football regardless of county fixtures - adult and u20. Inter Pro Rugby shows the model.
To be honest, doing it this way would probably be a relief to the county players too as it would save them some grief within their own clubs.
Play club league football March to August. That's 18 games over 24 weekends.
Then play the championship in August - September. The club season is over for everyone once you're knocked out of the championship.
County players named in the matchday squad can't play with their club within a fortnight of a championship game, but the rest can play club league. Everyone is there for the championship.
The important thing though is club players get to decide the structure, not the suits that go to county board meetings." I think Option 1 would be the way to go as well. I also think it should be up to the county management what players are released for club games during the period you mentioned. Again using the rugby reference as an example, Ireland will name a large squad for the upcoming November internationals but will release certain players for Pro 14 games who aren't in contention for Irish team selection that week or maybe a more established player needs some game time after recovering from an injury and will be released to play for his province. Doing this will improve the overall player development as clubs teams with county players will be giving game time to other squad memebers and the county management can also use the clubs to give some fringe players some valuable game time.
The only thing is could you actually see club teams voting this through? Some clubs will probably make the argument that if they are down a few county players that they will have weekends where they could struggle to field a senior and reserve team. Could this be valid with a few teams like Gweedore and Kilcar for example who have quite a few senior and underage county players?
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 19/10/2017 14:40:33
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If we had say 3 free weekends between may and September that you knew were free and set in stone then I wouldn't have a problem at all with how many fixtures we had in the league.
I've a young family I'm playing 15 years plus, I want to continue on playing but this crack of not knowing when your playing and NOT playing is killing me. I can't plan a family holiday during the season in fear of the ccc rescheduling the fixtures. For example say they tell you a certain weekend is free then if a fixture is cancelled for whatever reason weather/death etc.. they then refix the fixture for the weekend you thought was off !
Any team that has to play without their county players is at a disadvantage FACT! Ok you say the leagues aren't important but if you free fall down the divisions club players lose interest and start making plans to travel and suddenly you find your championship status under threat.
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 19/10/2017 16:06:07
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Mobot, it will be up to the majority of clubs to do what's best for the game overall. Club players in particular need to make their voice heard. Every team has a Viber or text message group, so it's never been easier to get their views.
The choice is simple. Play 12 league games in all. Some in April. None til August then championship and back to league in Oct-November. With the usual shite of games being called off at short notice because there's a county match or replay, or training weekend.
Or
Play regular league fixtures March to August regardless of county teams. No postponement other than specific bereavement. Flooded pitch? Then reverse the fixture, twice if needs be. Then championship in Aug-Sept and you play to your beat.
U17 minor football next season, so no impact on adult reserve or first team league football.
Who knows, maybe by giving regular fixtures clubs might even get a few players back!
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 19/10/2017 17:04:07
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Replying To crnm: "If we had say 3 free weekends between may and September that you knew were free and set in stone then I wouldn't have a problem at all with how many fixtures we had in the league.
I've a young family I'm playing 15 years plus, I want to continue on playing but this crack of not knowing when your playing and NOT playing is killing me. I can't plan a family holiday during the season in fear of the ccc rescheduling the fixtures. For example say they tell you a certain weekend is free then if a fixture is cancelled for whatever reason weather/death etc.. they then refix the fixture for the weekend you thought was off !
Any team that has to play without their county players is at a disadvantage FACT! Ok you say the leagues aren't important but if you free fall down the divisions club players lose interest and start making plans to travel and suddenly you find your championship status under threat." It's tough oul going for the family man who can't make plans with his family. A proper fixtures schedule in place for you would help no end.
That should be the priority over and above the whim of clubs who won't play a league game because a county man or two is unavailable.
Clubs without county players are disadvantaged to a degree (they're also at an advantage in terms of the superior coaching and care their county player gets thoughout the season, provided and paid for on the back of the 40 clubs). Glenswilly won the SFC from div 2 a few years back, and 3 of 4 semi finalists a few years back were also in Div 2, so league status doesn't affect your championship prospects. Although I hear Glencolmcille are trying to tie league to championship again. Daft idea. Championship is going fine.
Regular consistent games will be great encouragement to club players to stick around. It has to be worth a try. Anything would be better than what's we've had for years, or closing down league football for 3 months which is what this coterie of clubs are now proposing.
B.Bap (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 19/10/2017 17:14:56
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I think the clubs have to get on with playing the league games without the county players. I understand that it affects some teams more than others but clubs can't wait around all summer waiting for the county team to finish up in the championship. The GAA fixtures calendar is just a shambles.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 19/10/2017 17:18:08
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Something has to change. The idea of having the leagues finished by August and before the club championship starts is a good one. Then at least you go hard for championship and if your put out that's the end of the year instead of dragging on with club games with no interest.
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 19/10/2017 17:40:12
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The various ways it could be split will leave the leagues like this for 2018:
Leaving the leagues as they are:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Division 2
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Division 3
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Division 4:
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: This is what teams have been planning for all year. Teams have 16 games to find their level.
Cons: Season started at the beginning of March, and is still going nearly into November. A lot of games played without county players.
3 Tiers of 13 teams:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
Division 2:
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Division 3:
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: 13 teams in a division, so more scope for avoiding relegation. County players available for all games. More variety in teams being played and more scope for teams to make gradual improvements.
Cons: Only 12 games in a season so a couple of badly timed injuries/suspensions could badly affect some teams. 2 Junior teams in Division 2 with Intermediate team in Division 3. Not a lot of fixtures for club player to be training for (although regional league might help that).
Top 2 Tiers of 15:
Division 1:
Kilcar
Eunans
N Conaill
St Michaels
Gweedore
Dungloe
Glenswilly
Milford
Aodh Ruadh
Cloughaneely
Bundoran
Four Masters
Ardara
N Columba
MacCumhaills
Division 2:
Buncrana
Glenfin
Termon
Naomh Mhuire
St Nauls
Malin
Killybegs
Fanad
Moville
Red Hughs
Burt
Naomh Ultan
Naomh Brid
Convoy
Na Rossa
Division 3:
Letterkenny Gaels
Downings
N Colmcille
Carndonagh
N Padraig Muff
Urris
Robert Emmetts
Lifford
Pros: 14 games in a season to find own level but still 4 weeks less fixtures than current situation.
Cons: Big difference in quality of teams in each League. Teams will have to be without County players for some fixtures.
My own preference is for the status quo, but that doesn't seem likely so next best would be the 13 team divisions, with a regional league for non-county players. It might lead to some one-sided games - Gweedore v Na Rossa or St Eunans v Lifford, but I think teams will know enough to know they can't learn anything from being full strength and hammering some team so will use it to field a few Reserve and U21 players. There's also the possibility of running a non-county players league based on the current format for 2018, but with promotion and relegation for the following year to help teams find their level.
donegal_insider (Donegal) - Posts: 584 - 20/10/2017 11:35:13
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With donegal playing in the Ulster preliminary round now in may that's another two star fixtures used up. Added pressure for the fixtures committee.
crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 20/10/2017 12:55:30
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