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Replying To hill16no1man:  "i agree on the walsh one it does my head in hearing them say welsh when the name clearly is walsh
theres no excuse for getting that one wrong as there is a word welsh but the name he is calling is clearly spelled walsh not hard to differenciate the two."
Down my way Walsh is pronounced Welsh,if you said Walsh people would think you were a stuck up bollxx,and there are lots of Walshs in my neck of the woods,

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 429 - 27/09/2017 20:12:07    2051143

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Replying To mooncat:  "Down my way Walsh is pronounced Welsh,if you said Walsh people would think you were a stuck up bollxx,and there are lots of Walshs in my neck of the woods,"
How do they pronounce the plural for people from Wales then?
They are two seperate words Walsh and Welsh with two seperate pronunciations.
at this rate I could go around calling the sky the sea and suggest I'm right because it's my way of saying it haha we would never be able to communicate properly as human beings if we went on like that.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/09/2017 20:19:34    2051144

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Replying To hill16no1man:  "How do they pronounce the plural for people from Wales then?
They are two seperate words Walsh and Welsh with two seperate pronunciations.
at this rate I could go around calling the sky the sea and suggest I'm right because it's my way of saying it haha we would never be able to communicate properly as human beings if we went on like that."
The name Walsh comes from the Irish "Breathnach" which literally means Welsh as in someone from Wales. It's a Norman name and a lot of the Normans that came to Ireland came from Wales.

That's why people still pronounce it as Welsh because over the years the spelling became corrupted and in some areas people's pronunciation changed to match the spelling whereas in some areas people's pronunciation remained the same as always.

Neither way of pronouncing the name is more correct than the other despite what you seem to think.

There are thousands of examples of words in the English language that are pronounced differently depending on the speaker's accent. It really isn't as incomprehensible as you seem to find it. Every English speaker in the world, including yourself, uses many words daily that someone from another part of the English speaking world would pronounce differently. Also every single English speaker in the world pronounces some words that don't quite fit with their phonetic spelling, just like some people in Ireland and the name Walsh. You, like everyone else, pronounce plenty of words that do not fit with their spelling everyday.

Your original point about Chris Kamara putting the emphasis on the second vowel in Moran rather than on the first vowel is a slight mistake that many people make when pronouncing names they are slightly unfamiliar with and is pretty common with an English accent, the same Irish people will ignore the 'th' sound on many words in English.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12115 - 27/09/2017 21:02:18    2051158

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When you're explaining you're losing, some people are just argumentative and obtuse, perhaps just for the sake of it.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1035 - 27/09/2017 22:42:23    2051191

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The name Walsh comes from the Irish "Breathnach" which literally means Welsh as in someone from Wales. It's a Norman name and a lot of the Normans that came to Ireland came from Wales.

That's why people still pronounce it as Welsh because over the years the spelling became corrupted and in some areas people's pronunciation changed to match the spelling whereas in some areas people's pronunciation remained the same as always.

Neither way of pronouncing the name is more correct than the other despite what you seem to think.

There are thousands of examples of words in the English language that are pronounced differently depending on the speaker's accent. It really isn't as incomprehensible as you seem to find it. Every English speaker in the world, including yourself, uses many words daily that someone from another part of the English speaking world would pronounce differently. Also every single English speaker in the world pronounces some words that don't quite fit with their phonetic spelling, just like some people in Ireland and the name Walsh. You, like everyone else, pronounce plenty of words that do not fit with their spelling everyday.

Your original point about Chris Kamara putting the emphasis on the second vowel in Moran rather than on the first vowel is a slight mistake that many people make when pronouncing names they are slightly unfamiliar with and is pretty common with an English accent, the same Irish people will ignore the 'th' sound on many words in English."
I feel your exasperation as you typed that.

I don't feel like going to that effort.

Tomato/Tomatoe.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3662 - 27/09/2017 22:55:21    2051197

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Why do people say Maca Teer instead of the correct Mc Ateer Macan Tee instead of McEntee.There are numerous other examples.I think people here are being influenced by how the English or Americans might say them.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 469 - 28/09/2017 00:19:07    2051214

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Replying To bennybunny:  "I feel your exasperation as you typed that.

I don't feel like going to that effort.

Tomato/Tomatoe."
Yeah more fool me I suppose.

Nothing worse than people who have no idea how much they don't know.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12115 - 28/09/2017 09:47:07    2051247

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Replying To bennybunny:  "I feel your exasperation as you typed that.

I don't feel like going to that effort.

Tomato/Tomatoe."
They're Tommytoes!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 4816 - 28/09/2017 10:34:51    2051261

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Replying To hill16no1man:  "How do they pronounce the plural for people from Wales then?
They are two seperate words Walsh and Welsh with two seperate pronunciations.
at this rate I could go around calling the sky the sea and suggest I'm right because it's my way of saying it haha we would never be able to communicate properly as human beings if we went on like that."
if i am referring to my neighbour I say Johnnie Walsh,the people of Wales as the Welsh,fairly simple really,I think people wouldnt have any problem knowing who I am talking about,

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 429 - 28/09/2017 10:45:30    2051269

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The name Walsh comes from the Irish "Breathnach" which literally means Welsh as in someone from Wales. It's a Norman name and a lot of the Normans that came to Ireland came from Wales.

That's why people still pronounce it as Welsh because over the years the spelling became corrupted and in some areas people's pronunciation changed to match the spelling whereas in some areas people's pronunciation remained the same as always.

Neither way of pronouncing the name is more correct than the other despite what you seem to think.

There are thousands of examples of words in the English language that are pronounced differently depending on the speaker's accent. It really isn't as incomprehensible as you seem to find it. Every English speaker in the world, including yourself, uses many words daily that someone from another part of the English speaking world would pronounce differently. Also every single English speaker in the world pronounces some words that don't quite fit with their phonetic spelling, just like some people in Ireland and the name Walsh. You, like everyone else, pronounce plenty of words that do not fit with their spelling everyday.

Your original point about Chris Kamara putting the emphasis on the second vowel in Moran rather than on the first vowel is a slight mistake that many people make when pronouncing names they are slightly unfamiliar with and is pretty common with an English accent, the same Irish people will ignore the 'th' sound on many words in English."
I understand your point of the origins of the surname Walsh.
but the fact is like most things in life evolution is a daily thing. Lansdowne road used to be the name for the rugby/soccer stadium now it's called the aviva, if you were to continue calling it landsowne road you would have confusion among visitors and a new generation who only know it as it's present day name. The same goes for businesses like roches stores for example which became debenhams you wouldn't be able to communicate if you continually called it both. The fact now is that we have people spelling the surname stated as Walsh, whatever the meaning of the word or its origins it's pronunciation differs in the English language to the word spelled Welsh that is very clear, therefore they are incorrectly pronouncing the word, it's not an accent issue in this case.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/09/2017 00:19:24    2051548

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Replying To hill16no1man:  "I understand your point of the origins of the surname Walsh.
but the fact is like most things in life evolution is a daily thing. Lansdowne road used to be the name for the rugby/soccer stadium now it's called the aviva, if you were to continue calling it landsowne road you would have confusion among visitors and a new generation who only know it as it's present day name. The same goes for businesses like roches stores for example which became debenhams you wouldn't be able to communicate if you continually called it both. The fact now is that we have people spelling the surname stated as Walsh, whatever the meaning of the word or its origins it's pronunciation differs in the English language to the word spelled Welsh that is very clear, therefore they are incorrectly pronouncing the word, it's not an accent issue in this case."
You're right, unlike the Moran pronunciation it is not an accent thing. I'm glad you finally see the point of that.

Saying Walsh as Weslh is a colloquialism.

There are hundred and thousands (probably millions actually) of colloquialisms in the English language and people from as far flung as Australia and the northern tips of Canada manage to communicate pretty effectively. No one is wrong in their colloquialisms like you seem to think.

The points about the names of shops and stadiums changing has nothing to do with the point at all. Their names have been deliberately changed and have not evolved different pronunciations so it is pointless to bring them up.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12115 - 29/09/2017 12:09:06    2051647

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I always see a person's point so no need to be smart about it.
I don't agree with you on the Moran case as the pronunciation is quite easily done, to suggest all words sound different depending where your from don't hold as the person's accent differs but pronunciation is different to accent.
you can dress it up and do a Paul kimmagr with back story's to why a word has changed or its origins but the fact of the matter is there are two seperate pronunciations for Walsh and Welsh and if you spell your name one way you pronounce it that way that's how a language work's, my reference to changing of names of stadiums and businesses was to show you the difficulty you would have with people not familiar with the older versions which is the same with the Walsh Welsh scenario.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/09/2017 14:54:10    2051717

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Replying To hill16no1man:  "I always see a person's point so no need to be smart about it.
I don't agree with you on the Moran case as the pronunciation is quite easily done, to suggest all words sound different depending where your from don't hold as the person's accent differs but pronunciation is different to accent.
you can dress it up and do a Paul kimmagr with back story's to why a word has changed or its origins but the fact of the matter is there are two seperate pronunciations for Walsh and Welsh and if you spell your name one way you pronounce it that way that's how a language work's, my reference to changing of names of stadiums and businesses was to show you the difficulty you would have with people not familiar with the older versions which is the same with the Walsh Welsh scenario."
There is nothing in the spelling of Moran to suggest that it must have the emphasis on the first vowel rather than the second vowel.

What you want Kamara or other English people to do is pronounce it in our colloquial manner as we tend to emphasise the first vowel whereas they will usually emphasise the second.

But you don't want people in Kilkenny to adhere to their colloquialism in the pronunciation of Walsh.

Do you go around correcting all Irish people who fail to pronouce the "th" sound and instead use a "d" sound?

Or the equally ubiquitous "me" in place of "my"?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12115 - 29/09/2017 16:51:40    2051755

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