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I'm sorry Preddan but that is absolute nonsense. This is a good structure that is merit based and that is all anyone can ask for of a structure. There is promotion and relegation between the tiers and the top two teams in tier 2 get access to the McCarthy Cup cup in the same season. I don't fully agree with that aspect but it's there and I can live with it. The tier 2 competition will be very competitive imo and is worth winning in its own right. There are scheduling issues that will probably need to be ironed out but overall it's a fair system. If Kildare are good enough they can progress to the Leinster championship. They have to win their way there though and that's the way it should be. Sport is about performance and achievement not charity. Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 02/10/2017 14:17:20 2052409 Link 1 |
It's an interesting situation now. I'm not against change and the more games the better. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 02/10/2017 15:09:37 2052437 Link 0 |
Do you think it will be easier or more difficult to persuade u21 hurlers in Derry to commit to the team next year? They had a good year this year winning Ulster but then took a 42 point hammering from Kilkenny. I don't believe Derrys players learned anything from that game, or that Laois learned much in their 16 point defeat by a poorly performing Dublin team at senior level.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/10/2017 15:33:51 2052446 Link 0 |
Again, I'm not a fan of the new system, but how are Carlow, Laois, Westmeath worse off under the new system? The only real difference is that instead of the top team in the group going on to a Leinster Quarter-final, the 2 top teams will now go on to a play off for the AI Quarter-finals, which is actually a more advanced stage in the championship. And they have 5 guaranteed games regardless. How was the older format better (in that specific case)?
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2017 15:50:31 2052452 Link 0 |
Wait, I may have gotten something wrong. Do 2 teams from the tier 2 group go on to a AI QF play off, against the 3rd placed Munster and Leinster teams respectively? Or does one team from the tier 2 group get through, and that play off rotates between 3rd place Leinster and 3rd place Munster yearly? I've seen conflicting reports. The first option makes sense, the 2nd option would be a bit of a joke. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2017 16:08:49 2052457 Link 0 |
That is a supply and demand issue. Clare will simply make the game all ticket and they will be the hottest ticket in the Midwest. Clare supporters will buy season tickets to ensure a ticket. Limerick supporters will buy season tickets to ensure tickets for that matter. This is all good. There is no Devine right to attend matches. Clare are working with the safety officer to increase capacity.
Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 02/10/2017 16:28:01 2052465 Link 0 |
I think that's different. The Ulster u21 championship is a joke. Derry hurlers playing Kilkenny at u21 is a hell of a lot different to a senior team like Carlow or Kerry playing in the top tier, where they've earned the right to be there because they're amongst the top 12 or 14 teams in the country. The gap will not close without a more open spread of games in my opinion. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 02/10/2017 16:37:59 2052472 Link 0 |
The two finalists of tier 2 play in preliminary quarter final. They get home advantage too. Only the winner is promoted to Leinster championship though.
Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 02/10/2017 17:03:44 2052483 Link 0 |
I actually don't mind the new system. At least the tier 2 teams get a shot at the All Ireland still and they get 5 group matches that will be competitive. I just think better could've been produced and that we shouldn't be too worried about teams getting beaten heavily. So what. I really don't think a hammering leads to the existential crisis in players that some would have you believe. The Derry lads who played Kilkenny aren't mugs, they knew they'd get a hammering. I really don't think that loss will weigh on their decision much at all. Derry' senior situation is probably a more important factor. Work needs to be done to improve that. As for Laois I don't see why they won't have learned from the Dublin defeat, unfortunately they've another year to wait to play at that level again. So not much opportunity to test any lessons out. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 02/10/2017 17:05:25 2052487 Link 0 |
In 2015 Laois suffered a 10 point defeat to Dublin and 19 point defeat to Galway, in 2016 a 35 point defeat to Clare. I'm not sure why they would learn more from this years defeat than any of the previous ones. They will play the All-Ireland champions in next year's league and get competitive championship games with a big reward for the winners - looks a decent arrangement for them.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/10/2017 19:07:37 2052531 Link 0 |
Right, so the top 2 from the prelim/tier 2 group go onto a AI QF playoffs, that's what I thought, good. In an odd way, they'd actually have a less difficult route to an AI QF thant a Munster team. For example, Limerick would have to beat 2 of Tipp, Cork, Clare and Waterford to get to the same stage (same applies for Tipp, Clare etc). But I'm glad its 2 teams out of tier 2. The language being used is very confusing. Some people/outlets are saying its a 10 Team AI series, but its not. Its a 16 team AI series. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2017 20:06:36 2052547 Link 0 |
I agree with the hurling changes being implemented. The qualifier group counties had to be given some fairness. A motion put forward by some of them to be included in an All-Ireland quarter-final play-off was agreed upon. I agree with that decision. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 02/10/2017 20:10:06 2052549 Link 2 |
The Preliminary Quarter-final, top 2 tier 2 teams against the 3rd placed Leinster and Munster teams is interesting... It would be a major breakthrough for any of the Tier 2 teams to go through to the quarters JXV (Mayo) - Posts: 39 - 02/10/2017 23:45:19 2052590 Link 0 |
I enjoyed following Meath in this years Leinster round robin and will look forward to doing so in the group next year. Will be a great opportunity for all teams to pit themselves against similar opposition. We've beaten Kerry and Antrim in recent years and weren't that far off Westmeath. RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 03/10/2017 09:34:05 2052619 Link 0 |
I actually agree with a lot of that. Laois are being provided with a good season next year. The new tier 2 should be a good competition. Those 6 teams are all around a competitive level. What I'm getting at though is more about further down the tiers and also what happens over time when the relative strengths of teams changes and the tiers that were put in place before no longer work particularly well. For instance last season Carlow played Antrim 4 times, really those were the only games where those 2 teams went into them without being big favourites. I think having larger grades and 2 competitions a season with more overlap in the grades is better for getting teams a better mix of games. There are some quirks in the new system which I don't like but overall it is better than what was there before and should improve the game. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 03/10/2017 10:22:01 2052628 Link 0 |
In hurling, it's just a matter now of seeing how it works in practice. I think it will prove to be a success and there will only be minor changes from time to time. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 03/10/2017 10:46:18 2052638 Link 0 |
This chart might be helpful if you want to visualise how the format could've panned out JXV (Mayo) - Posts: 39 - 03/10/2017 11:42:32 2052660 Link 0 |
Very useful chart, thank you. Great to see that Carlow will be taking on Kilkenny in next years QF. Bet they are shaking !! carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 03/10/2017 12:08:06 2052668 Link 0 |
A more realistic example instead of alphabetical order would use Laois and Westmeath as an example of the top 2 from tier 1.5.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 03/10/2017 15:26:21 2052736 Link 0 |
Realistically Laois have not played in a leinster final since the mid eighties and not won one since 1949. A year out wont kill us and if we win the group which should be a reasonable and achieveable ambition then a prelim QF against a 3rd placed county would be a good marker of where we stand in relation to the "Top 10?" jpcampion (Laois) - Posts: 194 - 03/10/2017 15:52:57 2052744 Link 0 |