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CCCC hurling proposals change tier 2 teams status

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I'm still sifting through it, but it looks like the CCCC's hurling championship proposals have changed, and now limit the Liam McCarthy competition to 10 teams (5 Leinster incl Galway, and 5 Munster), and remove the 'tier 2' teams (Westmeath, Antrim, Carlow, Kerry, Laois and Meath) from the Liam McCarthy. What do people think of that? Seems like a step backwards, no? For one, if they're doing that, I don't see why they wouldn't merge that tier with the Christy Ring (5 tiers is too much). But regardless, whatever way you work it, its restricting participation in the top tier to less than one third of country, which seems like a step backwards to me. ESPECIALLY in light of the great championship we've just had. These proposals were rushed and hurried from day one, and seemed to lack the required consideration that should have gone into widespread changes. What do people think? Does anyone see an upside to this?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - 05/09/2017 16:59:01    2043074

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Agree. They seemed to have devalued the competitions from Christy ring downward. Basically the allowed too many teams that were not up to provincial standard into leinster. Now they realise there mistake and the answer is to call it tier 2 and let them play away amongst themselves. Surrey the winners of that group deserve a chance to keep hurling in leister. Especially considering offaly are guranteed games in leinster

Bimb (Carlow) - 05/09/2017 17:11:53    2043082

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Agree. They seemed to have devalued the competitions from Christy ring downward. Basically the allowed too many teams that were not up to provincial standard into leinster. Now they realise there mistake and the answer is to call it tier 2 and let them play away amongst themselves. Surrey the winners of that group deserve a chance to keep hurling in leister. Especially considering offaly are guranteed games in leinster

Bimb (Carlow) - 05/09/2017 17:24:43    2043092

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What a further joke and insult to any county trying to break through an ever thickening glass ceiling. So 'Tier Two' is basically the new Christy Ring but without a trophy (a sort of no mans land). Win it and you can play in the proper championship the next year.

Passer_By (Carlow) - 05/09/2017 17:27:32    2043095

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I agree with what was said on the Sunday Game after the All-Ireland. If it's not broke, then don't fix it. It's a knee jerk reaction to the football super 8s. I would rather have fewer games and be looking forward to them, than having lots of dull games. Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, and Tyrone will hammer two teams in the group stages of the super 8s next year as opposed to one in a quarter final. I don't want to see a similar thing happen in hurling where we have dead rubber games. It's a massive insult to the round robin teams in Leinster too. Westmeath gave Tipp a big scare in Thurles. Under the proposed changes Westmeath, Carlow, Laois, Kerry, Meath, Antrim etc. are being treated with complete disregard. I would be furious if I was a hurling supporter in those counties and rightly so.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - 05/09/2017 17:35:30    2043098

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Absolutely disgraceful treatment to Kerry, a Leinster side wins the Christy ring and they go straight into leinster but if Kerry win it the have to play a play off against the bottom Munster side. Basically consigning Kerry to tier 2 with no chance of progression. How is this developing the game

as_ky (Kerry) - 05/09/2017 17:40:10    2043103

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "I agree with what was said on the Sunday Game after the All-Ireland. If it's not broke, then don't fix it. It's a knee jerk reaction to the football super 8s. I would rather have fewer games and be looking forward to them, than having lots of dull games. Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, and Tyrone will hammer two teams in the group stages of the super 8s next year as opposed to one in a quarter final. I don't want to see a similar thing happen in hurling where we have dead rubber games. It's a massive insult to the round robin teams in Leinster too. Westmeath gave Tipp a big scare in Thurles. Under the proposed changes Westmeath, Carlow, Laois, Kerry, Meath, Antrim etc. are being treated with complete disregard. I would be furious if I was a hurling supporter in those counties and rightly so."
Exactly. And just to further the point on Westmeath, their U21's beat Kilkenny in the championship last year, and were competitive again with them this year. That, married to Westmeath's performance this year against Tipp, is a pretty strong example of why teams like that should be part of the AI series. They're only going to become more competitive in the next few years I would imagine, and only add to the AI series (and broaden interest in the championship in general). The gene pool at the top tier is shallow enough, lets not reduce it further.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - 05/09/2017 17:51:45    2043108

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Replying To as_ky:  "Absolutely disgraceful treatment to Kerry, a Leinster side wins the Christy ring and they go straight into leinster but if Kerry win it the have to play a play off against the bottom Munster side. Basically consigning Kerry to tier 2 with no chance of progression. How is this developing the game"
It's just about keeping the sacred Munster hurling championship between the current 5 counties. Disgraceful proposal.

M Lyster (Antrim) - 05/09/2017 18:40:56    2043131

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Replying To M Lyster:  "It's just about keeping the sacred Munster hurling championship between the current 5 counties. Disgraceful proposal."
Looking at the 'CCCC/Ard Chomhairle' proposal, it appears to be the same relegation/promotion process for Leinster and Munster: "The winners of the new Tier 2 Championship shall replace the bottom team in the Leinster or Munster Championships, as appropriate, in the following year." I'm not sure what "as appropriate" amounts to, but i assume its that if Kerry win tier 2, they'd replace the bottom Munster side. If a Leinster team won tier 2, they'd replace the bottom Leinster side. I don't see provision for a play-off, although inconsistencies wouldn't surprise me.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - 05/09/2017 19:55:22    2043148

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I'm a bit confused by this, if anyone can clarify! All the 2017 'Leinster' round robin teams have effectively been relegated to Tier 2 for 2018 with no possibility of playing in next year's Liam McCarthy? If so, I can imagine this doing a damage to teams on that level as players are likely less motivated if there's no possibility of compete at a higher level i.e like Westmeath v Tipp this year. Could this Tier 2 not just take place in May / June with the winner getting to play in LMcC?

Morty (Westmeath) - 05/09/2017 20:15:50    2043150

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Usual nonsense and contempt for the non traditional counties. 6 team competition and1 can get promoted out which means loads of dead rubber matches. But it's nothing new. If the gaa could just ignore everyone outside the top counties they would.

carlovia (None) - 05/09/2017 20:49:56    2043157

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Replying To carlovia:  "Usual nonsense and contempt for the non traditional counties. 6 team competition and1 can get promoted out which means loads of dead rubber matches. But it's nothing new. If the gaa could just ignore everyone outside the top counties they would."
Westmeath, Laois,Carlow,Antrim and Kerry brake their balls trying to improve hurling and these overpaid geniuses in Croke Park want to throw us out of the McCarthy cup.Westmeaths games with Laois,Meath,Kerry,Offaly and Tipperary were all terrific in a wonderful hurling season.They have made a proper mess by creating the elitist super eight monster in football and now they want to do the same in hurling

jobber (Westmeath) - 05/09/2017 21:03:44    2043160

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What they should do is play this earlier in the months, May and June. Top two teams play off in a Final, which a trophy should be made, They should call it Keady Cup. The two teams in the final then go in to play for the Liam McCarthy, one team goes to the Leinster and the other Goes to Munster. Problem solved!!

oakleafersir (Derry) - 05/09/2017 21:15:14    2043165

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Replying To jobber:  "Westmeath, Laois,Carlow,Antrim and Kerry brake their balls trying to improve hurling and these overpaid geniuses in Croke Park want to throw us out of the McCarthy cup.Westmeaths games with Laois,Meath,Kerry,Offaly and Tipperary were all terrific in a wonderful hurling season.They have made a proper mess by creating the elitist super eight monster in football and now they want to do the same in hurling"
Jobber, you remember when they tried to put our Christy ring final on Friday night in croke park. Nothing has changed since then. 6 teams and only 1 escapes and laois,Westmeath and Carlow not allowed in their own provincial competition.

carlovia (None) - 05/09/2017 21:44:29    2043174

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It's disgraceful

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - 05/09/2017 22:01:06    2043185

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Replying To Jack_Sparrow:  "It's disgraceful"
Agreed Jack. I don't know what was wrong with the structure of the championship over the last 3 years or so. It's a setback for the hurling people who are putting in great work in Westmeath, Carlow, Laois, Meath etc.

Laois76 (Laois) - 05/09/2017 22:07:40    2043188

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Replying To as_ky:  "Absolutely disgraceful treatment to Kerry, a Leinster side wins the Christy ring and they go straight into leinster but if Kerry win it the have to play a play off against the bottom Munster side. Basically consigning Kerry to tier 2 with no chance of progression. How is this developing the game"
Kerry hurling f*cking shafted again! At this stage I don't know why we bother anymore, no matter what strides we make those A-holes in Croke Park will cut a tree across our path! The first year we should have been promoted to Division 1b they put in a relegation/promotion play-off to keep us down in 2A, we finally get up to 1b and prove we can compete there and what do they do this year, take away the safety of the promotion/relegation again to send us back down to 2A. And now this insult! Any other county that wins this Tier 2 fiasco can then go into the Liam McCarthy the following year but Kerry have to play a promotion/relegation playoff against the worst team in Munster. Now say that is Limerick as at present (no offense Limerick fans), Kerry are no where near their level yet, but we can compete with the Laois's, Antrim's, Offalys and Westmeath's of this world. There is no incentive for Kerry to try and win this thing, all they will get for their trouble is a pasting from the Limericks of this world. Effectively it will take a miracle for them to ever get into the Senior Championship. They throw millions at Dublin to get their hurlers up to some sort of level and yet they f*ck over counties like us working their a*se off with limited resources and in the shadow of the all consuming nature of Gaelic football in the Kingdom. I really wish the Kerry County Board would use their influence to start throwing their weight around on behalf of the Kerry hurlers and other similar counties and get Croke Park to pull their collective heads out of their a-holes. If this proposal gets through it is a disgrace. They probably think just because Galway won now that hurling is in a great place. I think every county outside of the 10 in the Liam McCarthy should withdraw their inter-county teams if this get through. It might be the only thing to wake Croke Park up!

TheHermit (Kerry) - 05/09/2017 22:22:43    2043193

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "Looking at the 'CCCC/Ard Chomhairle' proposal, it appears to be the same relegation/promotion process for Leinster and Munster: "The winners of the new Tier 2 Championship shall replace the bottom team in the Leinster or Munster Championships, as appropriate, in the following year." I'm not sure what "as appropriate" amounts to, but i assume its that if Kerry win tier 2, they'd replace the bottom Munster side. If a Leinster team won tier 2, they'd replace the bottom Leinster side. I don't see provision for a play-off, although inconsistencies wouldn't surprise me."
It's an absolute joke. Say Kerry win tier one, does anyone seriously think for one nanosecond that Clare, or Limerick, or Waterford, hell it could be Cork or Tipp, are going to say "that's alright Jack" and quietly allow themselves be demoted from the following year's Munster championship? Never gonna happen in a million years.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - 05/09/2017 22:39:02    2043202

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Hopefully common sense will prevail and they will leave well enough alone. The championship is working well in its current format.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - 05/09/2017 22:49:20    2043205

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The question I'd ask is, what problems are these changes seeking to address? The problems in inter-county hurling is that too few counties can compete at the top level. And the fewer counties involved, the less interest in inter-county hurling there is. So if changes are made, they should be addressing problems that need addressing. For example, rather than demote the tier 2 teams, I'd actually like to see changes that revitalize the Ring competition and preserve tier 2 teams status. That could be done by combining the 'tier 2' and Ring championships. I know that sounds like a backward step initially, but I don't mean that as a demotion for tier 2 teams. More for an enlarged Ring 'super' competition (of the 4 'tier 2' teams and 8 Ring teams) to replace the current provincial round robin comp, with the top 2 Ring teams going on to play the 3rd place teams in Leinster and Munster, that same year. It would: - increase possible participation in the AI series from 10 teams, to 22 teams - allow for the lower tier competitions to be played deeper into the summer, and finish at the same time as the provincial round robin series. Playing the Ring/Rackard/Meaghar finals at the same time as the provincial finals,is much better than what we have now. - Give all existing Ring teams higher profile games against the 4 tier 2 counties, while still allowing the tier 2 counties to face off against each other (tier 2 teams would still have the same opportunity they currently do, just with extra games) - As its not bound by provincial limits, with some thought and promotion, it could become a much more interesting competition than the provincial comps. - after year 1, perhaps increase the number of teams playing in Leinster and Munster to 6 each, to better facilitate promotion/relegation thereafter (being realistic, ballydalane made a fair point related to that) I'm sure there are holes that could be poked in the above idea, but the point is this is where improvement is needed. If the powers that be don't take a holistic approach to the hurling championships, they'll do more harm than good.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - 06/09/2017 00:16:38    2043234

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