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Replying To papa_pump: "It's one thing to defend the manager, I get that. But you're being very disrespectful to the players if you're suggesting they're not good enough. What were people not saying in 2010 after the drubbing in Crossmaglen? 10 of the men who started that day started the final against Mayo in 2012, and if Cassidy hadn't shafted himself it would have been 11. 2 years before those men became immortals they were written off as a bunch of fit for nothing losers.
Coaching coaching coaching. If a player isn't reaching their potential you bring them to the training pitch and train them. Tyrone players all week long are preaching of the hours and hours Dooher and Logan spent working through their weaknesses with them post-Killarney.
Whether it's Bonner, Rochford or some new addition, it's up to the coaching ticket to work with the players they have and help them improve. Many Tyrone players "weren't good enough" until this year. Such a laughably short sighted view to say that our players aren't good enough." He is right, some the players have not been good enough (Not giving enough), we seen this against Cavan, some of our big name players failed to show up or maybe not fit enough to be on the pitch.
Is a 70% fit Michael Murphy really making more of contribution than Oisin Gallen, Odhran MacNiallais or Jason McGee? If anybody really thinks that, then we have to ask hard questions over why that is currently the case!!
The 2010 squad was full of talent that had won the 2007 National League title and had been there or thereabout in Ulster etc for years, they just lacked belief, discipline and access to modern coaching techniques and S&C. We currently have team that has won Ulster titles etc, but things haven't clicked to take us to that next level, and both management and players are to blame.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 19/09/2021 16:33:03
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Replying To papa_pump: " Replying To Commodore: "Its essentially the same Tyrone side from the last 5-6 years, they just tweaked their system and made some positional changes and it all clicked. If you look at the Tyrone team in 2015 that we beat in Ballybofey, a lot of those All Ireland winners were playing. They now have a fairly settled starting 15, and they kinda know their strongest back six.
Donegal don't know their strongest back six, and until they adapt the half back line, drop Ryan McHugh from and automatic choice wing back, we are going to suffer the same problems next season. We could play Ryan at center half forward or wing forward if needed, but not in the half back line, he isn't suitable when we face any capable side.
I would go with a new look starting lineup next season,
Full back: Ward, McMenamin (If fit), McFadden Ferry or Morrison (If fit)
Half back line: Eoghan Ban, Hugh McFadden and Paul Brennan.
Midfield: Caolan McGonigle, Jason McGee
Half forward line: Michael Langan, Ryan McHugh, Odhran MacNiallais
Full forward line: McBrearty, Murphy, O'Donnell" Agree fully about moving McHugh back to the forwards. I was listening to the DL Debate and Brendan Kilcoyne reckoned that moving McHugh from centre back up to the half forwards made a big difference for Kilcar against Eunan's. If anybody here was at the match maybe ye could confirm or deny whether or not that had any great bearing on the match. I like Ward, I think he's well worth a spot in the team. Only thing is, I think McCole was one of our better performers this year. I'd chance either Ward or McCole at centre back would be about the only change I'd make to what you have there. Aidan O'Rourke made an argument earlier in the year for starting McBrearty on the bench. At the time I laughed at it, thought it was ridiculous. But in fairness, he was pretty much marked out of it against Derry and Tyrone, and between that and seeing the impact McShane had coming on from the bench this year, it makes me wonder whether there'd be merit in bringing Paddy on around the 50th minute when things are a bit looser."
If we are to be All Ireland Challengers and winners, we need at least 8 or 9 of our men on the pitch to be better than their opposite numbers and beat them in most of those 50:50 situations. If the opposition team like Derry have just put their best man marker on Paddy McBrearty, sure this means that Jamie Brennan, Murphy, Langan, O'Donnell etc should be having a better day at the office with a lesser defender.
Brendan McCole is good in certain games, I'm just not sure he is gritty enough for the full back line, I think Conor Morrison has that McGee grit.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 19/09/2021 16:46:43
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Looks like Kieran Gillespie has another long road ahead of him, God love him. The poor man has been cursed with injuries.
Hopefully in the club Championship in the weeks ahead we'll unearth a few new defenders capable of making the step up. Donal Mac Giolla Bhride looked a good prospect anytime I saw him play. I think he might be in the Development squad and he'd probably need a good bit of strength work.
Anyone else catch the eye?" What is the latest on Gillespie?
SamT2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 66 - 23/09/2021 03:55:47
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Replying To SamT2012: "What is the latest on Gillespie?" Looks like he's done his knee in again. It pains me to say it, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I think we can forget about Kieran Gillespie pulling on a Donegal jersey again. At this stage it would be just great to see the lad able to enjoy a good injury free club career.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 23/09/2021 09:49:37
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Some interesting posts here since the All-Ireland final. No doubt watching Tyrone lift Sam hurts but I'll be honest I was cheering them on vehemently, I think they are really great champions. I feel we are not too far away from them however our problem has not been performances vs. Tyrone. It has been performing against anyone else at the top table. I know it has been said on these pages but I have a friend from Tyrone who says we happily beat them and nobody else. It doesn't sit well with me but it is probably a fair enough assessment. My fear now is that All-Ireland win will push on a lot of Tyrone squad. They will take great confidence from that, and especially the manner of their win. There's nothing more dangerous than a confident Tyrone man, dhia.
I agree with a lot of what has been said about our half-back line. I honestly believe Ryan should be named at 15 and allowed to roam about, but keep him higher up the pitch. Someone mentioned it already but opposition players are happy to foul him on the Donegal 45 because there's no problem with fouling him there and stopping his runs. Get him higher up the pitch where they will either foul him for a score-able free or else he can properly impact these big games. If that move doesn't work, then maybe Ryan should be dropped to the bench and used as an impact sub.
I also think that if everyone is fully fit, MacNiallis needs to be incorporated more next year. I understand this year was his first one back and he can't waltz back in to things/needs to get up to speed etc., but I genuinely believe he is one of the most talented players in the country. I think himself, Langan and Niall O'Donnell would form a formidable half-forward line.
I have great faith in the talent in Donegal and while I am not exactly excited about Declan staying on, I think he deserves another shot with hopefully a clean bill of health and a clear run at things without any disruptions next year. Hopefully we will be allowed bigger crowds and can get back to some sort of normality where I'll be getting over-excited about a great performance on a wet early February day in Ballyshannon!
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 23/09/2021 17:40:31
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They are getting a complete new pitch in Ballyshannon so when teams lose they can't use the pitch as an excuse
Donegal007 (Donegal) - Posts: 35 - 23/09/2021 18:48:20
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Looks like he's done his knee in again. It pains me to say it, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I think we can forget about Kieran Gillespie pulling on a Donegal jersey again. At this stage it would be just great to see the lad able to enjoy a good injury free club career." Poor fella, he has been through a lot in recent years.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 23/09/2021 22:32:26
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Replying To JoeSoap: "Some interesting posts here since the All-Ireland final. No doubt watching Tyrone lift Sam hurts but I'll be honest I was cheering them on vehemently, I think they are really great champions. I feel we are not too far away from them however our problem has not been performances vs. Tyrone. It has been performing against anyone else at the top table. I know it has been said on these pages but I have a friend from Tyrone who says we happily beat them and nobody else. It doesn't sit well with me but it is probably a fair enough assessment. My fear now is that All-Ireland win will push on a lot of Tyrone squad. They will take great confidence from that, and especially the manner of their win. There's nothing more dangerous than a confident Tyrone man, dhia.
I agree with a lot of what has been said about our half-back line. I honestly believe Ryan should be named at 15 and allowed to roam about, but keep him higher up the pitch. Someone mentioned it already but opposition players are happy to foul him on the Donegal 45 because there's no problem with fouling him there and stopping his runs. Get him higher up the pitch where they will either foul him for a score-able free or else he can properly impact these big games. If that move doesn't work, then maybe Ryan should be dropped to the bench and used as an impact sub.
I also think that if everyone is fully fit, MacNiallis needs to be incorporated more next year. I understand this year was his first one back and he can't waltz back in to things/needs to get up to speed etc., but I genuinely believe he is one of the most talented players in the country. I think himself, Langan and Niall O'Donnell would form a formidable half-forward line.
I have great faith in the talent in Donegal and while I am not exactly excited about Declan staying on, I think he deserves another shot with hopefully a clean bill of health and a clear run at things without any disruptions next year. Hopefully we will be allowed bigger crowds and can get back to some sort of normality where I'll be getting over-excited about a great performance on a wet early February day in Ballyshannon!" I fully agree.
If I was Donegal manager right now, I would have my team working around the clock analyzing our weaknesses and mistakes in the last 3-4 seasons, and really focusing on getting out back six formed and a solid team. By December and January each player would have a brief on their role for 2022 and the management team could then spend 6 months analyzing the Top 6 or 7 teams in the Country, so we are well prepared for next year.
No player should be above getting cut, All Ireland semi finals and finals are high intensity affairs, you don't field lads that are hobbling along and not fully fit.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 23/09/2021 22:36:48
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Replying To JoeSoap: "Some interesting posts here since the All-Ireland final. No doubt watching Tyrone lift Sam hurts but I'll be honest I was cheering them on vehemently, I think they are really great champions. I feel we are not too far away from them however our problem has not been performances vs. Tyrone. It has been performing against anyone else at the top table. I know it has been said on these pages but I have a friend from Tyrone who says we happily beat them and nobody else. It doesn't sit well with me but it is probably a fair enough assessment. My fear now is that All-Ireland win will push on a lot of Tyrone squad. They will take great confidence from that, and especially the manner of their win. There's nothing more dangerous than a confident Tyrone man, dhia.
I agree with a lot of what has been said about our half-back line. I honestly believe Ryan should be named at 15 and allowed to roam about, but keep him higher up the pitch. Someone mentioned it already but opposition players are happy to foul him on the Donegal 45 because there's no problem with fouling him there and stopping his runs. Get him higher up the pitch where they will either foul him for a score-able free or else he can properly impact these big games. If that move doesn't work, then maybe Ryan should be dropped to the bench and used as an impact sub.
I also think that if everyone is fully fit, MacNiallis needs to be incorporated more next year. I understand this year was his first one back and he can't waltz back in to things/needs to get up to speed etc., but I genuinely believe he is one of the most talented players in the country. I think himself, Langan and Niall O'Donnell would form a formidable half-forward line.
I have great faith in the talent in Donegal and while I am not exactly excited about Declan staying on, I think he deserves another shot with hopefully a clean bill of health and a clear run at things without any disruptions next year. Hopefully we will be allowed bigger crowds and can get back to some sort of normality where I'll be getting over-excited about a great performance on a wet early February day in Ballyshannon!" Have to agree with you on one point there is no excitement with him staying on 95 percent feel exact same way...think we are on the road to no town with this mgt set up ...but see about looking for no disruptions/injuries that's looking for excuses ...if you start saying that, the team is beat before it starts...every team has that it's part and parcel of football and life...can't agree with you on another chance been manager for 7/8 years over 2 spells never even got to a all ireland semi...we settle for this in dgl think our county board happy enough with that thou
marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 23/09/2021 23:21:56
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Replying To marty234: "Have to agree with you on one point there is no excitement with him staying on 95 percent feel exact same way...think we are on the road to no town with this mgt set up ...but see about looking for no disruptions/injuries that's looking for excuses ...if you start saying that, the team is beat before it starts...every team has that it's part and parcel of football and life...can't agree with you on another chance been manager for 7/8 years over 2 spells never even got to a all ireland semi...we settle for this in dgl think our county board happy enough with that thou" You make it sound like the entire county of Donegal are dead set against Declan and only the evil county board have kept him in situ. Everyone I have spoken to thinks he deserves another year at the least. I'm sure there are plenty folks like yourself that do not want him there but that's hardly 95%.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 24/09/2021 11:45:34
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Replying To marty234: "Have to agree with you on one point there is no excitement with him staying on 95 percent feel exact same way...think we are on the road to no town with this mgt set up ...but see about looking for no disruptions/injuries that's looking for excuses ...if you start saying that, the team is beat before it starts...every team has that it's part and parcel of football and life...can't agree with you on another chance been manager for 7/8 years over 2 spells never even got to a all ireland semi...we settle for this in dgl think our county board happy enough with that thou" Speak for yourself, I and a lot more want bonner there at this time. It might be 95 per cent of your friends. Your figures never add up by the way there are 40 clubs in Donegal.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 24/09/2021 12:36:50
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I don't really understand the school of though that Ryan McHugh's position on the team is in danger. He is too good and clever a footballer to be thinking of benching. The man was a YPOTY and an All Star. It's up to management to get the best out of players and getting them into positions of the field where their influence is not being negated.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 24/09/2021 14:38:29
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I don't really understand the school of though that Ryan McHugh's position on the team is in danger. He is too good and clever a footballer to be thinking of benching. The man was a YPOTY and an All Star. It's up to management to get the best out of players and getting them into positions of the field where their influence is not being negated." It is hard to take these critics of McHugh seriously.It would appear that there are other agendas or grievances at play here clouding their judgement.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1059 - 25/09/2021 11:41:10
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The problem I have with Bonner is we have been on a downward curve since 2019....he's had 4 years, but I would also put the caveat in that I didn't hear of any other serious contender for the post. I can only wish him and his backroom team all the best in 2022
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 26/09/2021 18:11:57
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Replying To totalrecall: "The problem I have with Bonner is we have been on a downward curve since 2019....he's had 4 years, but I would also put the caveat in that I didn't hear of any other serious contender for the post. I can only wish him and his backroom team all the best in 2022" No serious candidate would enter as there was nothing said for 8/9 weeks about the role from the county board or about the current managements intentions. When Declan then declared his intention to stay the county board then set a deadline 3 days to apply...what serious candidate would consider this? ..ppl will say about terms being up and all that but we all know who the board wanted and they got their man...no ambition to seek an alternative to status quo or to bring county team forward. Compare this to Kerry process, that's why they will be landing an all ireland in next 2 years.
marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 27/09/2021 07:52:46
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Replying To gunman: "It is hard to take these critics of McHugh seriously.It would appear that there are other agendas or grievances at play here clouding their judgement." I wouldn't call myself a critic of Ryan at all but we have to ask why he has been shut down so effectively in our most disappointing performances in the past couple of years. I've no doubt he's one of our best and most talented players so I'm trying to think of ways to get him more involved when we need him most because starting him in the half backs has not worked in the biggest games recently.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 27/09/2021 09:56:08
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Replying To marty234: "No serious candidate would enter as there was nothing said for 8/9 weeks about the role from the county board or about the current managements intentions. When Declan then declared his intention to stay the county board then set a deadline 3 days to apply...what serious candidate would consider this? ..ppl will say about terms being up and all that but we all know who the board wanted and they got their man...no ambition to seek an alternative to status quo or to bring county team forward. Compare this to Kerry process, that's why they will be landing an all ireland in next 2 years." As I said before clubs had 8 weeks to get manager in but as usual nobody done anything. All talk now Marty your rambling on about this since bonner was reappointed. I'm sure you must have approached your club that's if your a paid up member and asked them to put forward a candidate. It shudnt take eight weeks to nominate a candidate.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 27/09/2021 10:26:03
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See how Kerry move on the management front. Keane shown the door after being o so close, putting Jack o Connor in the driving seat who has the Celtic crosses to show. Why could McGuinness not have been installed, pedigree no problem! Then again as posters have pointed out who could come up with management plan in 2 days? The bungling county board who can't see past their noses,messing up the 2020 final which should have been completed already headed down the same path with 2021 champ. McGrath, Bonner the lot have to be sent up the river.
thelowball (USA) - Posts: 400 - 27/09/2021 14:05:27
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Replying To thelowball: "See how Kerry move on the management front. Keane shown the door after being o so close, putting Jack o Connor in the driving seat who has the Celtic crosses to show. Why could McGuinness not have been installed, pedigree no problem! Then again as posters have pointed out who could come up with management plan in 2 days? The bungling county board who can't see past their noses,messing up the 2020 final which should have been completed already headed down the same path with 2021 champ. McGrath, Bonner the lot have to be sent up the river." The county board didn't mess up the 2020 or 2021 c ship. N Conal and ardara have used extra subs which can happen. So absolutely nothing to do with co board. Take off your blinkers good lad you and Marty are singing off the one hymn sheet more than likely the same person lol.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 27/09/2021 14:34:58
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Replying To rorysboys: "The county board didn't mess up the 2020 or 2021 c ship. N Conal and ardara have used extra subs which can happen. So absolutely nothing to do with co board. Take off your blinkers good lad you and Marty are singing off the one hymn sheet more than likely the same person lol." Not much to 'sing' about really, the Donegal tune is getting really old, we all know who is blinkered, blinkers will not won for u Bonner or this twisted Donegal regime who are satisfied to carry on as perennial losers!
thelowball (USA) - Posts: 400 - 27/09/2021 15:38:54
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