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New Donegal Manager

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Replying To RoryGall35:  "Jaysus lads that's hard to take.. If you ask me I think we have a more talented group of players than Tyrone but we've no way near the bottle of Tyrone unfortunately"
Nothing really between the squads they are definitely stronger in full back line. We probably have better attacking players in terms of talent but Tyrone make up for that with lads who are unselfish and willing to do anything for the betterment of the team. The management of Dooher and Logan has been excellent. Leaving players off to bring on but maintaining spirit and bond is no easy task. Could Donegal learn by maybe doing the same with Paddy and Jamie Brennan?

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 10:35:23    2379874

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Replying To rorysboys:  "If we get a few hampseys. Mc geary. And mc namees we'll be better than them. But not till that. That hampsey lad is unreal can defend, play ball and kick scores. Have we players of similar stature and physique in Donegal, sadly not at the moment. Face facts lad."
These boys were bang average in hartes era no better than eoghan ban, McHugh, McMenamin or mcgee but new mgt in dooher/logan moulded them into defenders just like mcguinness did to mcgees, McGrath, lacey mcglynn...its all about the coaching and management...great mgt don't come up with excuse that they aren't there that's defeatist and lazy... great managers make it happen ....face fact lads

marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 12/09/2021 10:41:46    2379878

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Replying To panamasam:  "I really wouldn't know regarding the County Board but Tyrone winning can be looked in different ways. To be fair they have overlooked great work in Convoy which we already seen the fruits of at underage. But when you have someone like Gary Duffy in charge of the under twenties when he shouldn't be within an arses roar but clearly connected your point is not invalid."
Yous are great people for criticising managers. I'm damn sure your club cloghaneely could put somebody forward next year. You might even try it yourself you seem to know a lot. Like a few other posters

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 10:57:38    2379886

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Replying To rorysboys:  "If we get a few hampseys. Mc geary. And mc namees we'll be better than them. But not till that. That hampsey lad is unreal can defend, play ball and kick scores. Have we players of similar stature and physique in Donegal, sadly not at the moment. Face facts lad."
Its not strictly about stature, its about making contact, getting hands on oppositions attacking players. Paddy McGrath is not a big player, but he is a hardy wee buck who gets right in the oppositions face.
Full fit Stephen McMenamin, Odhran McFadden Ferry and Conor Morrison would make a huge difference, and bulking up our half back line would help too.

We already have the players to do this, we have solid half backs in the Senior squad already who don't get games due to the style we play, take Tony McClenaghan for example, the guy is a bull of a player, yet he is always on the bench.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 12/09/2021 11:27:53    2379901

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Replying To RoryGall35:  "Jaysus lads that's hard to take.. If you ask me I think we have a more talented group of players than Tyrone but we've no way near the bottle of Tyrone unfortunately"
We have some players who are probably individually who definitely are, but a team is a sum of the 15 players and the bench, and Tyrones weakest players are probably more solid than ours.

Interesting hearing Peter Canavan say yesterday that the heavy defeat in Killarney was an opportunity for Brian Dooher to pull a few players aside and tell them to get their act together or they wouldn't play for Tyrone again. I think that is what should have happened in Donegal after the Ulster final loss to Cavan, unfortunately we have too many boys who have automatic starting places regardless of how crap they play.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 12/09/2021 11:32:42    2379904

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Replying To panamasam:  "Tyrone are not about 6 defenders though it is a collective thing which is why they don't necessarily pick what most would perceive as their best 15. The Cavan debacle wasn't necessarily our defense it was lads wilting between the ears when it mattered most."
I get it's a collective thing but you still didn't gave me your best 6!defenders.?. I know half forwards and midfielders track back in the modern game but the way Donegal play they like to attack, so they leave themselves a lot of times man to man. That game yesterday was mostly man on man stuff which is the only way to win big games. The Mc Guinness era of defending is gone.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 11:53:15    2379907

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Replying To Commodore:  "Its not strictly about stature, its about making contact, getting hands on oppositions attacking players. Paddy McGrath is not a big player, but he is a hardy wee buck who gets right in the oppositions face.
Full fit Stephen McMenamin, Odhran McFadden Ferry and Conor Morrison would make a huge difference, and bulking up our half back line would help too.

We already have the players to do this, we have solid half backs in the Senior squad already who don't get games due to the style we play, take Tony McClenaghan for example, the guy is a bull of a player, yet he is always on the bench."
I agree and think there are players who can be adapted to play similar roles. For example no reason someone like Mogan could do a similar job to Meyler. Maybe instead of Ryan playing half back push him on. Lots of options but tough calls are needed especially in terms of the middle third and getting the right balance.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 12:44:44    2379929

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Yous are great people for criticising managers. I'm damn sure your club cloghaneely could put somebody forward next year. You might even try it yourself you seem to know a lot. Like a few other posters"
I don't think I have being too critical of Bonner at all. In fact I have agreed with you in that really there are not many alternatives. I am not against him getting another year at it and wish him well plus I am interested to see who might come into the management team. The time felt right for a change but it does appear it was a bit if a closed shop given the timeframe clubs had to put forward worthy candidates. Whatever rhetoric you got going on with these 'few other posters' save it for them if you don't mind. I actually had similar discussions defending Declan after the Cavan game when I didn't see the point in changing given the quick turnaround and the times we live in.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 12:56:54    2379933

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I get it's a collective thing but you still didn't gave me your best 6!defenders.?. I know half forwards and midfielders track back in the modern game but the way Donegal play they like to attack, so they leave themselves a lot of times man to man. That game yesterday was mostly man on man stuff which is the only way to win big games. The Mc Guinness era of defending is gone."
Tyrone turned over Kerry and mayo yesterday by 3/4 men swarming around the player in possession....i did see a bit of man to man but majority was swarming...i really don't know what you are watching times... really doubt your knowledge in terms of reading a game of football....are you one of the county board officials that wanted him jim to fail? Or can't accept that he was only.man that took us anywhere in last 30 years single handedly?

marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 12/09/2021 13:14:14    2379939

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Replying To panamasam:  "I don't think I have being too critical of Bonner at all. In fact I have agreed with you in that really there are not many alternatives. I am not against him getting another year at it and wish him well plus I am interested to see who might come into the management team. The time felt right for a change but it does appear it was a bit if a closed shop given the timeframe clubs had to put forward worthy candidates. Whatever rhetoric you got going on with these 'few other posters' save it for them if you don't mind. I actually had similar discussions defending Declan after the Cavan game when I didn't see the point in changing given the quick turnaround and the times we live in."
Bonner's time was up after the Tyrone game so everybody knew and had 5 weeks to propose a candidate. I don't go with this short time frame. Seems to me bonner and rochford met the players who were quite happy for them to put there name forward again. That's why I'm happy to see them stay. If Murphy and co weren't happy bonner would not let his name go forward.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 13:21:56    2379943

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I get it's a collective thing but you still didn't gave me your best 6!defenders.?. I know half forwards and midfielders track back in the modern game but the way Donegal play they like to attack, so they leave themselves a lot of times man to man. That game yesterday was mostly man on man stuff which is the only way to win big games. The Mc Guinness era of defending is gone."
You asked me a similar question a few weeks ago and I answered giving players whom I thought could be capable so not repeating myself. I disagree regarding man on man yesterday. Tyrone got plenty of men back and often defended in numbers. Their midfield was excellent in breaking up Mayo moves allowing players man on man up the field to come back especially around the ark.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 13:28:40    2379947

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Really admire the way Tyrone have played this year, they have got the right mix between defence and attack. Cathal McShane is one of the best forwards in the country yet had to content himself with a place on the bench as he wasn't at peak fitness. This would never happen in Donegal, we are hell bent on starting our big name players when they are half fit or out of form.

The positive from yesterday is that it shows we are not a million miles away from being contenders. We all agree on the main issue - lack of intensity in our defensive tackling or tough tackling markers. I feel we need to be a bit more pragmatic and pick 6 out and out defenders and tackle with intensity. That will mean keeping some of our better attacking players on the bench but it has to be done. If Declan added a good defensive coach to his backroom team I think this would get supporters back onside.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 12/09/2021 13:46:48    2379959

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Replying To marty234:  "Tyrone turned over Kerry and mayo yesterday by 3/4 men swarming around the player in possession....i did see a bit of man to man but majority was swarming...i really don't know what you are watching times... really doubt your knowledge in terms of reading a game of football....are you one of the county board officials that wanted him jim to fail? Or can't accept that he was only.man that took us anywhere in last 30 years single handedly?"
Jim's a legend yea. We all know that he didn't do it single handed he had Rory and a certain young player called Michael Murphy who was untouchable. I have huge respect for Jim. I always will have. Your some boy to be on about knowledge of football. By the posts you put on here I can guarantee that you probably never kicked a ball in your life. Lol

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 14:10:31    2379964

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Bonner's time was up after the Tyrone game so everybody knew and had 5 weeks to propose a candidate. I don't go with this short time frame. Seems to me bonner and rochford met the players who were quite happy for them to put there name forward again. That's why I'm happy to see them stay. If Murphy and co weren't happy bonner would not let his name go forward."
I'd say you are spot on there, the influential players wanted Bonner and Rochford to stay on but not sure this is a good thing. From my experience a popular manager amongst the players is not necessarily a good one. The manager needs to call the shots. I do agree with your overall stance that Bonner is the only option at the moment, no other candidates were breaking their necks looking for the job. I really hope it works out for Bonner.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 12/09/2021 14:46:41    2379973

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Hopefully it will. I hope he gets a good defensive coach in. Is donie Buckley available or somebody of that calibre. Hopefully rochford stays to

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 15:25:10    2379979

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "I'd say you are spot on there, the influential players wanted Bonner and Rochford to stay on but not sure this is a good thing. From my experience a popular manager amongst the players is not necessarily a good one. The manager needs to call the shots. I do agree with your overall stance that Bonner is the only option at the moment, no other candidates were breaking their necks looking for the job. I really hope it works out for Bonner."
Case in point Rory Gallagher when it was obvious pretty early he wasn't the man yet the players wanted him. These players need someone to tell them a few home truths and toughen them up mentally. No All Ireland semi final since 2014 tells you all you need to know about one of the biggest underachieving teams in the country of recent years. Don't often agree with Martin McHugh but didn't he put in same bracket as the Cork footballers from 10-15 years ago and the best comparison the Galway hurlers.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 16:01:38    2379989

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Replying To panamasam:  "If we played Tyrone next week there be feck all in it at all so no not a big gap. However Tyrone have a mentality where they grow stronger as they go on hence winning 4 outta 5 AI finals they have contested with their underage teams following a similar trait. On the rare occasion out underage team gets outta Ulster they generally fail. I agree with Commodore in that the problem lies in our half backline and also not having the balls to not start or sub 'big' players in games that either not suited or not having an effect."
Agree with a lot of that. Tyrone were happy to bring big players on as impact subs, maybe we could learn from that ourselves.

If we played Tyrone next week though we would be playing a different outfit than 2/3 months ago. I rated us as stronger than Tyrone previously and that's part of my frustration that we haven't pushed on more. But those Tyrone players now have All Ireland medals and will be a different proposition for us from here on. The gap is big enough for me unfortunately because our defending isn't on the level of a top 4 team.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 12/09/2021 21:28:24    2380083

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Agree with a lot of that. Tyrone were happy to bring big players on as impact subs, maybe we could learn from that ourselves.

If we played Tyrone next week though we would be playing a different outfit than 2/3 months ago. I rated us as stronger than Tyrone previously and that's part of my frustration that we haven't pushed on more. But those Tyrone players now have All Ireland medals and will be a different proposition for us from here on. The gap is big enough for me unfortunately because our defending isn't on the level of a top 4 team."
I think the defending issues are fixable but as alluded to its going to take some big decisions. Hopefully McMenamin can keep fit and OMFF will have a proper season next year which will make a big difference to begin. You are right in that no doubt Tyrone will be a different proposition not forgetting they'll be stronger in the forward division with McShane and Canavan most likely over their injury woes. Plus they have got a midfield pairing which seems to work. I thought Kennedy was immense yesterday before going off. We need to look after Murphy and ease him back in. Remember Tyrone only conceded one goal in this year's championship and that was to Donegal with 14 men. So plenty to be optimistic about but like I have constantly alluded to is that Donegal's biggest issue is between the ears. Hopefully no bulls**t talk about the only way to an AI is through Ulster. No reason why they cannot go the scenic route if required. Hopefully the Super 8's are ditched and a return to the previous format which was fine anyways with qualifiers and AI quarter finals.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 22:53:16    2380110

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Replying To panamasam:  "Case in point Rory Gallagher when it was obvious pretty early he wasn't the man yet the players wanted him. These players need someone to tell them a few home truths and toughen them up mentally. No All Ireland semi final since 2014 tells you all you need to know about one of the biggest underachieving teams in the country of recent years. Don't often agree with Martin McHugh but didn't he put in same bracket as the Cork footballers from 10-15 years ago and the best comparison the Galway hurlers."
Not a habitual poster but a close reader of most comments. Agree entirely with this especially the sentence beginning with "These players" and ending with "mentally"

DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 12/09/2021 23:30:33    2380122

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Problem lies on the line men...as well as that the coaching structures in Tyrone are brilliant...look at amount of ex players involved way club and counties throughout Ulster ...they develop coaches but the county board obviously facilitate and develop them unlike our county board who would not be interested in providing that and as well as that ex players have seen how they treated top managers before.i remember lacey making a statement about 13/14 years ago about them holding back fball in county and said best they could give players was a pair of gloves for chship game on warmest day of the year.its a 10 year rebuilding process and change is needed from the top down.
Donegal always produce very natural easy on the eye footballers that's what keeps us in top 8 generally but to go that extra level that's where top manager is needed...unfortunately I see Tyrone dominating Ulster for 4/5 years that hurts to say I can also see them get at least another all Ireland...but listen you get out of life what you it in and they fully deserve it as they have genuine fball ppl involved and put great structures and hard work into it.....on another note it's a general thing but I always thought they had an air that they were wee streak of badness in them and that they expected to be there where we generally as dgl.ppl have shyness about us which I think comes across in our fball teams a lot.

marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 12/09/2021 23:47:16    2380128

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