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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "I don't give 2 you know whats if it's tedious for you, you are maybe a bit tedious for the rest of us brown nosing about Bonner,
It was Mc Guinness that brought us from nowhere in 2010 to 2 All ireland finals and a hat full of Ulsters, without him we would have had nothing. Bonner is a decent fella but he is not in the same league as a manager as McGuinness." I agree that Declan Bonner doesn't personally have the same characteristics of Jim McGuinness which made McGuinness a superior level of manager, but very few others have that either. Developing good managers seems to be a bigger problem for us that players in Donegal, and many other Counties.
Joe Brolly met Declan Bonner for pints in West Donegal just before the 2014 All Ireland SF against Dublin, and said Declan Bonner didn't think Donegal seniors could beat Dublin, obviously it was expressed privately to a mouthpiece like Brolly, but it shows the difference between McGuinness and Bonner, Jim fully believed we could beat them. He didn't look at newspaper headlines or big scores that the Dubs had racked up and think "No way we could beat that", he instead dissected them into tiny tactical pieces until he could identify weaknesses that we could exploit.
Jim McGuinness was relentless in his tactical analysis, he studied the opposing teams for 12 months, studying patterns of play and even how their managers use subs etc, their kick-out strategy. It was a different level of dedication, but it made us a serious force, every team in the Country knew they would be getting a tight game with us at that time.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 11/09/2021 13:23:03
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Replying To Commodore: "I agree that Declan Bonner doesn't personally have the same characteristics of Jim McGuinness which made McGuinness a superior level of manager, but very few others have that either. Developing good managers seems to be a bigger problem for us that players in Donegal, and many other Counties.
Joe Brolly met Declan Bonner for pints in West Donegal just before the 2014 All Ireland SF against Dublin, and said Declan Bonner didn't think Donegal seniors could beat Dublin, obviously it was expressed privately to a mouthpiece like Brolly, but it shows the difference between McGuinness and Bonner, Jim fully believed we could beat them. He didn't look at newspaper headlines or big scores that the Dubs had racked up and think "No way we could beat that", he instead dissected them into tiny tactical pieces until he could identify weaknesses that we could exploit.
Jim McGuinness was relentless in his tactical analysis, he studied the opposing teams for 12 months, studying patterns of play and even how their managers use subs etc, their kick-out strategy. It was a different level of dedication, but it made us a serious force, every team in the Country knew they would be getting a tight game with us at that time." Just reading McGuinness's articles in the Irish Times he is so insightful on the game, he is one of a kind for sure, I just wish he was managing the senior team but that's not to be for now anyway.
Hope we can do better next year anyway.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2757 - 11/09/2021 18:21:25
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just reading McGuinness's articles in the Irish Times he is so insightful on the game, he is one of a kind for sure, I just wish he was managing the senior team but that's not to be for now anyway.
Hope we can do better next year anyway." He tipped Mayo to win today.
A wonderful manager, but proves even the best can get it wrong sometimes.
joeman123 (Leitrim) - Posts: 463 - 11/09/2021 19:53:52
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just reading McGuinness's articles in the Irish Times he is so insightful on the game, he is one of a kind for sure, I just wish he was managing the senior team but that's not to be for now anyway.
Hope we can do better next year anyway." He tipped Mayo to win today.
A wonderful manager, but proves even the best can get it wrong sometimes.
joeman123 (Leitrim) - Posts: 463 - 11/09/2021 19:53:58
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just reading McGuinness's articles in the Irish Times he is so insightful on the game, he is one of a kind for sure, I just wish he was managing the senior team but that's not to be for now anyway.
Hope we can do better next year anyway." Jim tipped Mayo so he can be wrong.
neutral (None) - Posts: 358 - 11/09/2021 20:17:39
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just reading McGuinness's articles in the Irish Times he is so insightful on the game, he is one of a kind for sure, I just wish he was managing the senior team but that's not to be for now anyway.
Hope we can do better next year anyway." Suppose it's no bad getting beaten by the Sam maguire winners. We're not far away just a bit of luck .?keep the faith
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 11/09/2021 20:31:53
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Replying To rorysboys: "Who's saying they are. I never compared them. My point was that poster said that Tyrone wudnt put up with them not competing at the top level my answer being Donegal and Monaghan had there number this last decade and Micky still held on. There were no back door this last two years to gave any manager a fair chance. Donegal before covid we're flying. So it's only right he gets to manage them hopefully in normal times again. Are we going to debate all year why he got his extension, bonner is the manager now and it's time to move on and support him and the team. People on about 80 per cent not wanting him.?how do they come to that number. 80 per cent of hogan stand posters, don't make me laugh, keyboard warrior don't exist in my life." Held on? Just won 3 AI senior titles as well as 6 Ulster titles nevermind AI titles and Ulster titles at U-21 and minor. Not to mention 2 of those Ulster titles were in the last ten years when apparently dominated by Donegal and Monaghan. Oh and also an AI semi final and final appearance since Jim left which is a whole lot more than Donegal have done. Never a case of just holding on regarding Mickey Harte....a legend.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 20:41:19
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Replying To Commodore: "Declan Bonner did win back to back Ulster titles with us, he just hasn't been able to take us to the All Ireland challenger level, and he has made mistakes with team selections and subs etc, game management hasn't always been good. But right now I don't see anybody else within the County with anything on their CV to show they could do better. Anyone won't cut it, we had Rory Gallagher in charge for 3 years and he couldn't even win an Ulster title.
Regarding the potential replacements you noted as available again,
Karl Lacey has zero experiencing actually managing a team, he had played for Donegal during the McGuinness era and been a key member of the backroom team under Bonner, but right now he lacks the credentials as an actual manager. I know he has recently taken over a senior role of development within the County, and maybe in time he will prove his metal at management, I just don't think he has shown enough to justify such a massive move.
Jim McGuinness is proven at the top level, he is probably the only option we have with Senior All Ireland experience. However all indicators suggest he has no interest in going back into GAA, his focus is now making a career in Club soccer. Jim is also tight with Declan Bonner, and many of his 2014 backroom team have been part of Declan Bonners backroom team in recent seasons, so I could only see him considering it if Declan Bonner voluntarily decided to step down and there wasn't any obvious contenders.
Malachy O'Rourke is a manager I actually suggested here a few weeks ago as a potential replacement for Bonner if he stepped down, I have since learned that he is based in Ballygawley, Co Tyrone, so he is close enough to be considered. He helped Monaghan realise their maximum potential, if he could make Donegal reach their potential, we would be a scary proposition at All Ireland level for any team.
I believe some Club Managers and some of the 2012 All Ireland winning side have the potential to one day manage Donegal" Only really McGuiness worthy from that list but like what Lacey has already brought in terms of the underage side of things.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 20:45:12
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Replying To marty234: "Yeah he got us there but managed to blow final...just like following year 2015 when we had a very special minor team, just like under 21 team if 2017 which had abundance of talent when dessie farell outfoxed him on line, just like 2016 team that blew it v Tyrone in final a team blessed with talent...just like Cavan in Ulster last year just like Tyrone in ballybofey when we 4 up way 12 mins to go in 2018...decisiin making of this manager cost us all them games ...ill not even mention his first term...see I know and remember all these nightmares and I'm not going to apologise for calling things the way I see them" As much as I agree with some of your points there especially the 2015 minors you cannot use the 2017 under 21's as a stick to beat Bonner with. Not only was that an excellent Dublin team but Donegal were screwed by the ridiculous scheduling. They didn't get much favours from the ref either in that Dublin game with one absolute stone wall pen for a foul on Michael Langan not given before unsurprisingly running out of legs in the second half. Think Dublin had 2-3 weeks to prepare for that game and were able to see Donegal in action a couple of times too.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 20:52:55
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Replying To Green_Gold: "Having had a few weeks to consider this, my feelings haven't really changed. Nothing against Bonner but it just felt like time for a change. However he does seem the best option at the moment as there are no suitable candidates. As Commodore has pointed out earlier, we have no pathway for developing young managers and coaches and that is something that should be looked at. Karl Lacey's appointment as head of our development squads is a real positive and there is some serious work being put in there at the moment.
It sounds like Bonner isn't going to change his backroom team, maybe a high profile addition would bring the fans back onside. Rory Kavanagh is another name that could be considered in a few years time. He has already won the Buncrana Cup with the u-16s and has a lot of coaching experience. Maybe Bonner should consider adding him to his coaching staff." As often the case GG you nailed it. Excellent post.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 20:54:03
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Very difficult watching Tyrone this evening given our recent history, we know we are as good as them. Dooher and Logan really need to be commended by being strong enough to resist populous decisions by keeping 'big' names on the bench and going with their best team team. For example, you would imagine hypothetically speaking Murphy would never have started against Down under their leadership. Positive to hear that Rochford is likely staying on as coach there really aren't much better in the game. Be interesting to see who else comes in. Donegal really need a couple of strong intelligent minds there. While the points about our half backline are spot on Donegal's biggest problem is between the ears a problem Declan ain't going to fix nor Rochford's excellent coaching. For this reason the changes to the backroom team will be interesting.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 21:03:50
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Replying To panamasam: "Very difficult watching Tyrone this evening given our recent history, we know we are as good as them. Dooher and Logan really need to be commended by being strong enough to resist populous decisions by keeping 'big' names on the bench and going with their best team team. For example, you would imagine hypothetically speaking Murphy would never have started against Down under their leadership. Positive to hear that Rochford is likely staying on as coach there really aren't much better in the game. Be interesting to see who else comes in. Donegal really need a couple of strong intelligent minds there. While the points about our half backline are spot on Donegal's biggest problem is between the ears a problem Declan ain't going to fix nor Rochford's excellent coaching. For this reason the changes to the backroom team will be interesting." Well what use think now boys and girls that must hurt cos it hurts me watching that Tyrone team winning an all ireland? Knowing we as good of a team...probably wilnt hurt the county board thou that's the real issue
marty234 (Donegal) - Posts: 158 - 11/09/2021 21:20:55
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Replying To panamasam: "Very difficult watching Tyrone this evening given our recent history, we know we are as good as them. Dooher and Logan really need to be commended by being strong enough to resist populous decisions by keeping 'big' names on the bench and going with their best team team. For example, you would imagine hypothetically speaking Murphy would never have started against Down under their leadership. Positive to hear that Rochford is likely staying on as coach there really aren't much better in the game. Be interesting to see who else comes in. Donegal really need a couple of strong intelligent minds there. While the points about our half backline are spot on Donegal's biggest problem is between the ears a problem Declan ain't going to fix nor Rochford's excellent coaching. For this reason the changes to the backroom team will be interesting." Totally concur. Watching Tyrone win brings a strange feeling that we are missing out on big days like this and shouldn't be. We have had their measure many times in recent years. With more fortune it could have been the same this year again. However when you look at the tackling of Meyler, McGeary, Hampsey and McNamee and compare that to our timid defensive efforts then there is a clear gap between us and the top teams. Unless it's addressed and big time, then we will stay where we are.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 11/09/2021 21:47:07
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Replying To panamasam: "Held on? Just won 3 AI senior titles as well as 6 Ulster titles nevermind AI titles and Ulster titles at U-21 and minor. Not to mention 2 of those Ulster titles were in the last ten years when apparently dominated by Donegal and Monaghan. Oh and also an AI semi final and final appearance since Jim left which is a whole lot more than Donegal have done. Never a case of just holding on regarding Mickey Harte....a legend." Read my post right. Micky Harte was holding on to the Tyrone job this last few years. I spoke to Tyrone gaels who wanted him gone long ago. Mightn please you but I don't really care. the reason Tyrone win today is because they have a defence .. You can gloss over it all you like. that is the reason. Come out and name your starting 6 defenders if all are fit? Till we have defenders who can defend we can forget about it.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 11/09/2021 22:09:46
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "Totally concur. Watching Tyrone win brings a strange feeling that we are missing out on big days like this and shouldn't be. We have had their measure many times in recent years. With more fortune it could have been the same this year again. However when you look at the tackling of Meyler, McGeary, Hampsey and McNamee and compare that to our timid defensive efforts then there is a clear gap between us and the top teams. Unless it's addressed and big time, then we will stay where we are." If we played Tyrone next week there be feck all in it at all so no not a big gap. However Tyrone have a mentality where they grow stronger as they go on hence winning 4 outta 5 AI finals they have contested with their underage teams following a similar trait. On the rare occasion out underage team gets outta Ulster they generally fail. I agree with Commodore in that the problem lies in our half backline and also not having the balls to not start or sub 'big' players in games that either not suited or not having an effect.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 22:39:27
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Replying To marty234: "Well what use think now boys and girls that must hurt cos it hurts me watching that Tyrone team winning an all ireland? Knowing we as good of a team...probably wilnt hurt the county board thou that's the real issue" I really wouldn't know regarding the County Board but Tyrone winning can be looked in different ways. To be fair they have overlooked great work in Convoy which we already seen the fruits of at underage. But when you have someone like Gary Duffy in charge of the under twenties when he shouldn't be within an arses roar but clearly connected your point is not invalid.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 11/09/2021 22:43:37
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Jaysus lads that's hard to take.. If you ask me I think we have a more talented group of players than Tyrone but we've no way near the bottle of Tyrone unfortunately
RoryGall35 (Donegal) - Posts: 167 - 12/09/2021 00:30:24
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Replying To marty234: "Well what use think now boys and girls that must hurt cos it hurts me watching that Tyrone team winning an all ireland? Knowing we as good of a team...probably wilnt hurt the county board thou that's the real issue" If we get a few hampseys. Mc geary. And mc namees we'll be better than them. But not till that. That hampsey lad is unreal can defend, play ball and kick scores. Have we players of similar stature and physique in Donegal, sadly not at the moment. Face facts lad.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 12/09/2021 08:49:45
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Replying To marty234: "Well what use think now boys and girls that must hurt cos it hurts me watching that Tyrone team winning an all ireland? Knowing we as good of a team...probably wilnt hurt the county board thou that's the real issue" If their win doesn't cause some serious reflection in Donegal then I don't know … I feel that moment may have already passed though with no change at the helm for 2022. It's a lot to expect the current management to figure out issues that they haven't really been able to for 4 years.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 12/09/2021 10:10:02
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Replying To rorysboys: "Read my post right. Micky Harte was holding on to the Tyrone job this last few years. I spoke to Tyrone gaels who wanted him gone long ago. Mightn please you but I don't really care. the reason Tyrone win today is because they have a defence .. You can gloss over it all you like. that is the reason. Come out and name your starting 6 defenders if all are fit? Till we have defenders who can defend we can forget about it." Tyrone are not about 6 defenders though it is a collective thing which is why they don't necessarily pick what most would perceive as their best 15. The Cavan debacle wasn't necessarily our defense it was lads wilting between the ears when it mattered most.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 12/09/2021 10:21:08
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