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Replying To gunman: " Replying To Commodore: "Ah here Ryan has turned up all the time.
Set up 2 points in the first quarter and was vital for the goal. If I am being critical, Tyrone did seem to target him in defence and got a few scores running hard at him, which is a first as he's usually one of our better defenders.
When you look at teams that can mark Ryan relatively well, it's mayo and Tyrone. Durcan had nullified every single person he's come up against and scores vs them too. Meyler is a quality player too, I would say Ryan edged their battle but to think people expect Ryan to be hitting 1-4 in most games is ridiculous.
Ryan has scored vital goals and points for us throughout and is a key player for us. Apart from the 2 teams mentioned above, I don't think there's any other players than can match Ryan in the country.
Donegal have played Ryan as a defender and told him to attack his man. (similar to mc caffrey, Durcan etc) and I still feel this is the best role for him. Stick him in the half forward line and the shoe is on the other foot, people like Durcan attack him and it can be counterproductive for us.
TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 695 - 28/07/2021 10:05:19
No he has not turned up when it matters, Mayo 2019, Cavan 2020, Tyrone 2021, if you look at his stand out performances like in the Ulster final against Fermanagh, where he scored a fantastic goal or recently against Down, but aside from those matches against weaker opposition, he just doesn't bring it consistently.
If he is such a key player for Donegal, why is his form so hit and miss? A player of his stature should be a leader and driving us on, but he was nowhere to be found against Cavan in the 2020 Ulster final, when we needed leaders driving out of our defence to get the ball forward.
And its not that opposition focus on him as one of key players to mark anymore, Murphy, McBrearty, Brennan and Langan are higher up the threat pecking order now, so why he is so easily taken out of matches? Defensively he is weak, he might for the odd turnover, but he is beaten if any opposition player builds up a head of steam. We won't address our problems until this is addressed." Despite what you would like to see no manager,Bonner or any manager who might replace him if he decides to go will be stupid enough to drop one of the best players in the country."
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2757 - 28/07/2021 16:18:24
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Jasus lads, are some people really thinking of dropping Ryan. The mind boggles sometimes.
Some people have mentioned that he is not high up the pecking order of being marked by opposition any more! Like WTF, I can guarantee he is first on the list to negate.
For me Ryan is not a half back. Spends far too much time and energy tracking his man. Okay he can lose his man and drive forward but put a player like Durcan on him and they attack too easily off Ryan and put him on back foot.
We don't mix it up enough. We don't get enough of Ryan but IMO that's not his fault. Ryan needs to play around the D and middle of park linking play and driving forward.
We need to seriously beef up the half back line. Pace and power are needed with the right balance.
DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 28/07/2021 21:48:41
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no harm in having an opinion but a bit silly to say we should be in croke park every year. On what basis as I'm sick saying we don't have a strong enough defence to play in croke park. For the time being trying to win ulster is our only realistic hope and that s going to be difficult with Tyrone building momentum.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1008 - 28/07/2021 10:40:16
That mindset is partly what is wrong within Donegal, in 2010 people were saying the we didn't have a good enough full back line, midfield, half forward line etc to be playing in Croke Park. Then Jim McGuinness arrived, adapted players to the roles we were lacking in for his system and changed Donegal football history.
Dublin GAA were between 1996 and 2010 the team always fell short, people said they weren't good enough etc, but that wasn't true, they simply didn't have the management structures in place to take them to the next level. However they understood this and started making moves behind the scenes to address it, no fools on the Dublin County board, all very serious minded people with a strong focus on making GAA in Dublin better.
I think Donegal has too many GAA people who want a ready made package, they can't visualize what might be with some hard work and effort. They should be able to list the problems and then figure out alternative solutions, and if we can develop good man markers at U17, we can do it with the seniors, it just might take some effort. Winning an All Ireland is the ambition for Kerry every year, a County of similar population to Donegal, surely reaching Croke Park should be a minimum requirement for Donegal.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 29/07/2021 08:33:00
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Replying To Commodore: "no harm in having an opinion but a bit silly to say we should be in croke park every year. On what basis as I'm sick saying we don't have a strong enough defence to play in croke park. For the time being trying to win ulster is our only realistic hope and that s going to be difficult with Tyrone building momentum.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1008 - 28/07/2021 10:40:16
That mindset is partly what is wrong within Donegal, in 2010 people were saying the we didn't have a good enough full back line, midfield, half forward line etc to be playing in Croke Park. Then Jim McGuinness arrived, adapted players to the roles we were lacking in for his system and changed Donegal football history.
Dublin GAA were between 1996 and 2010 the team always fell short, people said they weren't good enough etc, but that wasn't true, they simply didn't have the management structures in place to take them to the next level. However they understood this and started making moves behind the scenes to address it, no fools on the Dublin County board, all very serious minded people with a strong focus on making GAA in Dublin better.
I think Donegal has too many GAA people who want a ready made package, they can't visualize what might be with some hard work and effort. They should be able to list the problems and then figure out alternative solutions, and if we can develop good man markers at U17, we can do it with the seniors, it just might take some effort. Winning an All Ireland is the ambition for Kerry every year, a County of similar population to Donegal, surely reaching Croke Park should be a minimum requirement for Donegal." I am saying at the moment we are short defenders to be playing regulary in croke park. Nothing to do with mindset it's fact. Hopefully in a few years this will change. As I said before the defenders we have now are all good footballers but are not used to man marking and if you play attacking football like this management have done we are going to concede heavily against the Kerry's and the Dublins.. difference in Donegal and kerry is kerry keep winning all irelands at under age levels so the conveyor belt of talent is going to be strong. We have been poor at under age level which hopefully will change soon. Why should teams like Monaghan with half our population be so strong at underage level.. whatever management team comes in this year is going to find the same problems.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 29/07/2021 10:33:52
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If McGuinness stepped in again now, would he be taking over a better or worse panel of players than he did in 2010?
back then we were ranked 19th in Ireland and hadn't even won a game in the Ulster Championship in years.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2757 - 29/07/2021 11:21:37
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I am saying at the moment we are short defenders to be playing regulary in croke park. Nothing to do with mindset it's fact. Hopefully in a few years this will change. As I said before the defenders we have now are all good footballers but are not used to man marking and if you play attacking football like this management have done we are going to concede heavily against the Kerry's and the Dublins.. difference in Donegal and kerry is kerry keep winning all irelands at under age levels so the conveyor belt of talent is going to be strong. We have been poor at under age level which hopefully will change soon. Why should teams like Monaghan with half our population be so strong at underage level.. whatever management team comes in this year is going to find the same problems.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 1010 - 29/07/2021 10:33:52 2
I understand your point and you do make some valid points, I'm just looking at it from a different angle.
Underage level is a bit like Club level in that the average level of players on the successful teams is usually slightly higher than others, but that's not to say the successful team has more superstars than the other teams. If you look at St Eunans or Naomh Conaill, they each might have only 2 or 3 players currently of Senior Intercounty standard, but the quality of the other players are on average slightly better and that is what makes them better teams.
Donegal has never been super successful at underage, but we manage to always have a superstar or two in the works, even if that underage teams is weak in many areas. A Tyrone man highlighted that to me recently, how Tyrone have been regularly successful at underage for that last 15-20 years, yet Donegal still manage to produce better indvidual players like Michael Langan, MacNiallais, Thompson, Niall O'Donnell, Peadar Mogan, Ryan McHugh etc.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 29/07/2021 11:42:58
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If McGuinness stepped in again now, would he be taking over a better or worse panel of players than he did in 2010?
back then we were ranked 19th in Ireland and hadn't even won a game in the Ulster Championship in years." A significantly better team now. Back then he had to first convince them that they could win Ulster, and then after they won their 2nd Ulster title, they took it to the next level with some belief.
Here he would be taking over a relatively young group of players, average age of 24-25 who have already won a couple of Ulsters and gone toe to toe with Kerry and Dublin, so it would be a very different project.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 29/07/2021 11:45:45
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@ Rory, more rubbish, you're telling us that Bonner has done it all at underage level from U15 on. If so how come Donegal are so inept in the defending stakes, which for the most part are where games are won and lost. He has failed to unearth the couple of defenders which is a huge part of the job. By the way do no not ask me to name the starting six backs, that's for u and Bonner!
thelowball (USA) - Posts: 400 - 29/07/2021 14:41:49
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Replying To thelowball: "@ Rory, more rubbish, you're telling us that Bonner has done it all at underage level from U15 on. If so how come Donegal are so inept in the defending stakes, which for the most part are where games are won and lost. He has failed to unearth the couple of defenders which is a huge part of the job. By the way do no not ask me to name the starting six backs, that's for u and Bonner!" I wudnt expect you to name the six backs because your knowledge of gaa is limited. Ever since you named players who you said should be on the panel that's when I stopped taking you seriously lol.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 29/07/2021 15:03:36
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Was it sambo mcnaugton said you get as many players from a bad minor team as a good one. You probably get a better idea based on players who played more than one year at minor. Of the playes who played championship this year don't think patton or mcfadden played minor as they focused on soccer and Paul brennan was a leitrim man at minor. The following players last year at minors (under 18) was
2003 mcgee*
2007 murphy*
2010 mcniallais (think was a sub)
2011 mcbrearty*
2012 Ryan mchugh* & eoin mchugh
2013 Thompson (think was a sub)
2014 ban*, Jamie brennan *, mcgonagle & Andrew mcclean
2015 mcmenamin*, ethan odonnell *, langan & mccole
2016 nod*, mcff
2017 mogan*
2018 gallen* and conor o'donnell* (minors was moved to under 17 in 2018 but they played in 2017)
The * are players who played at least two years (mcbrearty played 3)
Donegal were strong at minor in the mid 10s winning 3 ulster minor leagues and 2 ulster minor championships and there are more players off them teams but not a huge amount more than other years. Every year, even a less successful year like 2017 has produced players.
Now you want to see minors being successful as much for the team themselves. It ultimately should be good for both club and county improvements but it's not essential for a successful county team. Galway have been dominating at minor hurling but doesn't seem to do them a huge amount of good at senior. For a senior county team you ultimately want a few really good players every year rather than a good all round team. Maybe a case in point is monaghan last night. That mooney chap is nearly guaranteed to come through for them and whether they won or lost yesterday that's not going to change that fact.
What is important though is that the under age squads and club training focus young players (at minor its probably too late) on kicking off both feet and hand passing off off both hands to make the very good players elite. There's definitely a few players on the senior team that are held back because they can't do that. From a defenders point of view focus on developing their defending skills though again this needs focus at club and the early years of county development squads.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 697 - 29/07/2021 18:49:16
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If McGuinness stepped in again now, would he be taking over a better or worse panel of players than he did in 2010?
back then we were ranked 19th in Ireland and hadn't even won a game in the Ulster Championship in years." The team McGuiness took over were at a false low. The manager and backroom team between McIvor & McGuiness were very poor and unprofessional. Donegal were National League Champions in 2007 so a lot of quality was already there.
correct (None) - Posts: 84 - 30/07/2021 19:15:23
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "Was it sambo mcnaugton said you get as many players from a bad minor team as a good one. You probably get a better idea based on players who played more than one year at minor. Of the playes who played championship this year don't think patton or mcfadden played minor as they focused on soccer and Paul brennan was a leitrim man at minor. The following players last year at minors (under 18) was
2003 mcgee*
2007 murphy*
2010 mcniallais (think was a sub)
2011 mcbrearty*
2012 Ryan mchugh* & eoin mchugh
2013 Thompson (think was a sub)
2014 ban*, Jamie brennan *, mcgonagle & Andrew mcclean
2015 mcmenamin*, ethan odonnell *, langan & mccole
2016 nod*, mcff
2017 mogan*
2018 gallen* and conor o'donnell* (minors was moved to under 17 in 2018 but they played in 2017)
The * are players who played at least two years (mcbrearty played 3)
Donegal were strong at minor in the mid 10s winning 3 ulster minor leagues and 2 ulster minor championships and there are more players off them teams but not a huge amount more than other years. Every year, even a less successful year like 2017 has produced players.
Now you want to see minors being successful as much for the team themselves. It ultimately should be good for both club and county improvements but it's not essential for a successful county team. Galway have been dominating at minor hurling but doesn't seem to do them a huge amount of good at senior. For a senior county team you ultimately want a few really good players every year rather than a good all round team. Maybe a case in point is monaghan last night. That mooney chap is nearly guaranteed to come through for them and whether they won or lost yesterday that's not going to change that fact.
What is important though is that the under age squads and club training focus young players (at minor its probably too late) on kicking off both feet and hand passing off off both hands to make the very good players elite. There's definitely a few players on the senior team that are held back because they can't do that. From a defenders point of view focus on developing their defending skills though again this needs focus at club and the early years of county development squads." Not taking away from your point, but Hugh McFadden played minor in 2012 I'm pretty sure.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 385 - 31/07/2021 22:16:42
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Our u20s were strong this year particularly the spine of the team and we're competitive in ulster and our u17s are through to the semi final having accounted for Antrim and Monaghan, we don't need to be winning titles at underage to develop players, because underage teams are about player development and I am sure we will get 2 or 3 off this year's u20s to graduate to the senior panel. The senior championship will see one or two lads put their hands up for the panel who may not have been considered previously. Our core group of players are a good age and some have yet to hit to their peak. I think if we can sort out to the positions of 3 & 6 we will be a force again next year
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 01/08/2021 01:26:43
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Replying To totalrecall: "Our u20s were strong this year particularly the spine of the team and we're competitive in ulster and our u17s are through to the semi final having accounted for Antrim and Monaghan, we don't need to be winning titles at underage to develop players, because underage teams are about player development and I am sure we will get 2 or 3 off this year's u20s to graduate to the senior panel. The senior championship will see one or two lads put their hands up for the panel who may not have been considered previously. Our core group of players are a good age and some have yet to hit to their peak. I think if we can sort out to the positions of 3 & 6 we will be a force again next year" Agree 3 and 6 are crucial positions but so are the two corner backs. Fixing the problem is huge I don't see a ready fix unfortunately. One more thing our two all Ireland s were build on successful u21 teams. The u21 teams of 1982 and 1988 were the backbone of our 1992 success as was the influx of players from the 2010 team to our 2012 success .
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 01/08/2021 10:55:23
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Replying To SurelyToGod: "Not taking away from your point, but Hugh McFadden played minor in 2012 I'm pretty sure." Good catch, I couldn't see that he did based on the match programme against cavan but a bit of googling shows he did come on as a sub in the two matches that year. He did have more of an impact at under 21. I also found out Thompson was on the original minor panel at the start of 2012.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 697 - 01/08/2021 12:31:14
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Replying To rorysboys: "Agree 3 and 6 are crucial positions but so are the two corner backs. Fixing the problem is huge I don't see a ready fix unfortunately. One more thing our two all Ireland s were build on successful u21 teams. The u21 teams of 1982 and 1988 were the backbone of our 1992 success as was the influx of players from the 2010 team to our 2012 success ." Imagine telling someone Crossmaglen in 2010 that pretty much the same Donegal team that day would win an Ulster a year later an All Ireland in two years, with a highest concession of 14 points along the way. Well you would have fair laughed at them. Donegal were looking for more than a few new defenders after that match.
There is no doubt improvement needs to take place with the Donegal team but the "fixing the problem" is nothing like it was in 2010. I don't see it as insurmountable at all. Also next year is the year of the 2 and well and we do well in years ending in 2.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 697 - 01/08/2021 13:13:26
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Jez can't wait till next February and the leagues back to normal for everyones sake, leave declan for another Yr and give him a proper chance to make the team right again. Needs to change up them around him and narrow it down to one voice in the room. Hopefully finds a core for the team and injury free so no need to be constantly moving lads around, them boys will be hurting more than anyone on here and I'm sure they all want to put in another big effort to prove their worth.
Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 160 - 01/08/2021 13:34:07
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To be at the top table in Gaelic Football you need to be clinical and cut-throat. It's not about protecting egos and it's not about fearing the unknown. If that means wishing Declan luck on his next role, or even asking him to start over with an underage squad once again then so be it.
I think that opening the manager's job up for applications is the right thing to do at this point. The right person for the job will present themselves, even if the job is entrusted with Declan for another few years.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 385 - 01/08/2021 19:04:56
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Just seen a picture of Jim on the home page and I immediately thought they was some news of his return!!
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2757 - 04/08/2021 21:35:00
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Declan applying for another year. This horse doesn't know when his race is ran.
StockholmGael (Donegal) - Posts: 112 - 26/08/2021 09:23:25
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