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Replying To TheHermit: "Well sin e, League done and dusted and now the long wait begins until the Munster Semi-Final on the 2 June.
Two bloody months ahead where we will have no clue what's going on below in training, we won't know what players are coming back after not featuring in the League, we won't know whose been culled and we won't have any notion what the Championship panel is until the eve of their first Munster game.
It's been a League to forget results wise. I think we are all happy so many young players got their chance but ever since the Mayo victory there has been no sense of the team as a whole developing, the performances improving week on week, a game plan forming etc.
All I can hope is that the two victories in the first couple of games told management that we would be safe from any relegation battle and instead the priority and focus was on giving as many lads as much game time as possible.
Now that's all well and good, but my huge worry is how the sideline has overseen the actual games. Whatever about giving guys a chance, surely Eamon would still be sending them out to try and win? For a young side surely winning is the best confidence boost you can get.
So why the bizarre selections and crucially, the unfathomable substitutions game after game?
Kingdomboy said it above, Moran on his last legs, they bring on Brendan a midfielder but he replaces Casey one of the only fellas taking the game to Tyrone!!!!
People like BJK and Mike Geaney still making the field (even been selected out of position to facilitate it) when these lads should have been culled long ago.
No kick out strategy, no system put in place to counter our weaknesses in defense.
I mean why does playing young fella's have to mean you do practically nothing else to try and win the games or develop the team.
It's a if Fitzmaurice's tactic for the entire League was, right lads go out and play and see what happens. Are two months, one of which is meant to be given over to the clubs, going to be enough time to fix every glaring shortcoming the League has shown up?!!!" You make some great points there the hermit.
The boys on TT picked an interesting team for the championship they picked
Murphy,
killian young, foley, o'beaglaoich/enright .
Murphy, Morley, Crowley.
Barry, mark griffin.
Seanie O'shea, jod , daithi Casey.
Clifford, Star, p Geaney.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 26/03/2018 19:40:29
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Which Crowley in the half back line - interesting alright would like to see that team with Gavin Crowley at 6 and Morley to midfield with Jack Barry
Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 26/03/2018 22:47:08
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Replying To Horsebox77: "Which Crowley in the half back line - interesting alright would like to see that team with Gavin Crowley at 6 and Morley to midfield with Jack Barry" I think the meant Peter Crowley horse but like you I really think gavin Crowley has the potential to be a great center back and ya Morley in the middle could be good as Moran is a very good player but he's too slow for the modern game.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 27/03/2018 02:14:20
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Some interesting picks there, not sure about Griffen in the middle, he hasn't played there much so it's hard to say.
Does anybody think that forward line is a bit unbalanced? It's a very aggressive looking unit but I don't see any worker bees that will track back, this is part and parcel of the half forward role now unfortunately. I'd put two speedy lads like o'Brien and Burns / McCarthy on the wings for this job personally as they are full of running and can also take a score, you don't want your creative players like O'Shea and Casey having to do this. I think Dublin or Mayo would make hay with runners if we had the HF line the lads picked.
Not sure about Donaghy starting any more at this stage, or JOD at 11, for me he is a born finisher and I can't see what he will give you out there that O'Brien or somebody else wouldn't do better. I'd put JOD in the corner or leave him out altogether.
Very interesting to see other people's selections.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 27/03/2018 09:15:21
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Lads ye have to be realistic unless he is injured Moran will be a starting midfielder so it's about have another back up option or two for him and Barry on the bench.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 27/03/2018 09:22:50
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "You make some great points there the hermit.
The boys on TT picked an interesting team for the championship they picked
Murphy,
killian young, foley, o'beaglaoich/enright .
Murphy, Morley, Crowley.
Barry, mark griffin.
Seanie O'shea, jod , daithi Casey.
Clifford, Star, p Geaney." Well no offense to the lads on TT but are they picking the best six forwards we have or are they picking a forward line that will actually work?
Where are the dirty breaking ball merchants in that forward line and where are the men that will keep the opposition's half backs honest? You need a Kevin McCarthy or someone similar in there.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 27/03/2018 10:54:38
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Replying To TheHermit: "Well no offense to the lads on TT but are they picking the best six forwards we have or are they picking a forward line that will actually work?
Where are the dirty breaking ball merchants in that forward line and where are the men that will keep the opposition's half backs honest? You need a Kevin McCarthy or someone similar in there." Ya you would be thinking like Gerry that McCarthy and O'Brien at either side of o'shea Or daithi Casey, we usually only play a two man full forward line so you'd maybe have burns as well.
Full forward line two of either Donaghy Geaney jod and Clifford and maybe Spillane?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 27/03/2018 12:54:17
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The only way I see Griffen as an option in the middle is for the last 15 minutes when Moran or Barry tires and you are trying to defend a lead with a deep lying midfield. I don't think he has the stamina or distribution for a starting midfield role. He could cover 3-4 positions from the bench so is a very useful player to have around.
The more I look at that forward line the more I am wondering what were they thinking with four inside forwards and two centre forwards. I'll have a listen to the podcast in the gym this evening out of curiosity.
They could badly do with a shake up of the panel on TT and bring in the likes of Marc and Aidan O'Mahoney who would have a much better grasp of the modern game.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 27/03/2018 13:10:09
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "The only way I see Griffen as an option in the middle is for the last 15 minutes when Moran or Barry tires and you are trying to defend a lead with a deep lying midfield. I don't think he has the stamina or distribution for a starting midfield role. He could cover 3-4 positions from the bench so is a very useful player to have around.
The more I look at that forward line the more I am wondering what were they thinking with four inside forwards and two centre forwards. I'll have a listen to the podcast in the gym this evening out of curiosity.
They could badly do with a shake up of the panel on TT and bring in the likes of Marc and Aidan O'Mahoney who would have a much better grasp of the modern game." Yeah Gerry the panel they have this time of the year during the League can be very hit and miss. One week you might have the likes of Jack Kennedy or Martin Horgan on - fella's whose opinions you would respect, the next week you could have Joe or Mary from the supporters club or Dinny Allen who (with all due respect to the man), doesn't really have anymore insight than the lot of us on here, and probably much less than some of ye at that!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 27/03/2018 14:29:19
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Team id like to see is
MURPHY
SHANAHAN
FOLEY
YOUNG OR O'BEAGLACH
MURPHY
G CROWLEY
MORLEY
BARRY
BUCKLEY
BURNS
CASEY
K MCCARTHY
CLIFFORD
S O SE
GEANEY
aidan64 (Kerry) - Posts: 665 - 27/03/2018 20:31:12
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Lads I don't want to come across as if I'm doing nothing lately but knocking Fitzmaurice but I've finally gotten around to reading Gooch's book and I can't reconcile the picture of Fitzmaurice he paints and the evidence of the past few weeks, if not two years.
Gooch describes him as a meticulous game planner and how his match review video sessions are Joe Schmidt-esque in how uncomfortable they can get when he highlights and calls out of players over individual mistakes etc.
Now I have to wonder how does that stack up when we see his team's continually make the same errors and when he fails to address the glaring deficiencies in our game plan.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/03/2018 00:21:32
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Replying To TheHermit: "Lads I don't want to come across as if I'm doing nothing lately but knocking Fitzmaurice but I've finally gotten around to reading Gooch's book and I can't reconcile the picture of Fitzmaurice he paints and the evidence of the past few weeks, if not two years.
Gooch describes him as a meticulous game planner and how his match review video sessions are Joe Schmidt-esque in how uncomfortable they can get when he highlights and calls out of players over individual mistakes etc.
Now I have to wonder how does that stack up when we see his team's continually make the same errors and when he fails to address the glaring deficiencies in our game plan." That is interesting the hermit, I haven't read gooches book yet but remember reading in one of the papers after the 2009 final all the work fitz put into players match ups and it was a brilliant piece in fairness, he used to actually fall asleep watching videos of cork.
But like you say it doesn't really stack up now when you see the same mistakes being made over and over again, maybe he's not to blame maybe the players just aren't good enough at the moment, but sure how would we know when we're not allowed into training sessions and the county players hardly ever play with their clubs now.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/03/2018 10:52:36
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@TheHermit that book is sitting on the shelf under the coffee table at home must pick it up myself.
I suppose if you look back at the big games we have won and lost there have been mistakes but I don't think I'd be as hard as some on here
2013 semi we went toe to toe with the Dubs, were leading coming to the end before a Dublin attempted point ended up in our net, this killed us and Dublin ran away with it after that.The better team won but we were in a position to pull of a shock which deserves credit
2014 final, good tactical display I thought
2015 final, both teams were flat, Dublin were not good, they were just less bad than us, it was a rotten day and both teams hit a pathetic 8 points from play each. One of our backs in particular got cleaned leading to several easy frees for Rock, and we couldn't match Dublin around the middle for intensity and application. JOD clearly wasn't fit to play although he kicked 2 points iirc. You could argue Donaghy should have started at the edge of the square but you never know what difference it would have made, I think he would have been shut down personally.
2016 semi, again we were in a position to win it after catching Dublin for two goals and a point by pushing up on the kickouts but we just came up short when it mattered. Fitzmaurice got scathing criticism for subbing Geaney for Marc, we were out on our feet across the board and desperately trying to cling on for a draw by the end. Dubs had much better subs than we had, we were solid enough defensively I thought. Ref admitted to making an error towards the end that resulted in a two point swing in favour of Dublin. Are we really blaming Fitzmaurice for this one? I don't think that's fair tbh.
2017, we played a fairly aggressive game and could have easily won the first game, we wouldn't have deserved it but that's not the point. We made a complete mess of the second game from many aspects, tactically, playing a clearly unfit Donnachadh, taking Murphy out of his very effective role the first day and putting him in a very ineffective sweeper role, leaving Enright get burned by Moran through two games, I could go on. Hopefully lessons were learned, and I think all the backroom changes over the winter show us that change is coming.
We could pick out individual things in each game that may have made a difference but at the end of the day that's with the benefit of hindsight. The Mayo replay stands out to me, I think most of the other games were close and it's debatable whether they came down to the sideline. Dublin are simply better than us since 2011, don't forget that.
We had some very indifferent performances during the league, particularly defensively. We could solve the issue immediately by dropping men back and playing more on the counter. I don't know why that hasn't been done during the league, perhaps Eamon was trying to see what certain guys were made of under pressure. There were a lot of young lads in there and he will now be whittling down the panel and working towards the summer.
I'm prepared to give him one more crack at it but if he doesn't at least make a semi final and put in a credible performance he will come under serious pressure I think.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 28/03/2018 11:12:31
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Alright lads,
I've been to all league games this year and from what I've seen of the new lads and what we know of the tried and tested old guard, this in my opinion is our strongest 15 come championship. I've also attached my B team which sees lads breathing down the necks of their opposite numbers in almost every position. We couldn't have said that last year.
A Team
1.S. Murphy. 2. K. Young. 3. J. Foley. 4. T. Morley. 5. P. Murphy. 6. M Griffin. 7. P Crowley. 8. J. Barry. 9. D. Moran 10. S O Shea 11. D. Casey 12. K Mc Carthy 13. D. Clifford 14. P. Geaney 15. J O Donoghue
B Team
1.B. Kelly. 2. F. Fitzgerald. 3. S. Enright . 4. R. Shannahan. 5. B. O Beaglaich. 6. G. Crowley. 7. T O Sullivan. 8. J. Crowley 9. B O Sullivan. 10. D. Walsh. 11. D. O Sullivan. 12. M. Burns. 13. S. O Brien. 14. K. Donaghy. 15. BJ Keane.
Honourable mentions. A Maher. K Spillane. M Geaney. J Savage. E O Connochuir. C. Coffey A. Spillane M Flaherty B. O Seanachain G. White Brendan O Sullivan
With the young lads I make it 4 are ready to start and 6 more probably a year away from nailing down a starting place.
Last year our weakest line was our half forward line. I believe this to be one of our strongest this year. This is a massive improvement in such a short space of time.
Our weakest link right now is centre back. I believe M. Griffin has all the attributes to make a great no 6. Hopefully Fitzie has the vision and patience to stick with him here.
Unfortunately I don't think we are quite ready to stop the Dubs just yet but I think next year we will put a halt to the 5 in a row and go on to win quite a few more in the following years. Having said that, if we can avoid them until the final we may have gathered enough momentum and experience to pip them on the day.
What do ye all think?
KerryBoys (Kerry) - Posts: 1 - 28/03/2018 11:53:06
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Replying To KerryBoys: "Alright lads,
I've been to all league games this year and from what I've seen of the new lads and what we know of the tried and tested old guard, this in my opinion is our strongest 15 come championship. I've also attached my B team which sees lads breathing down the necks of their opposite numbers in almost every position. We couldn't have said that last year.
A Team
1.S. Murphy. 2. K. Young. 3. J. Foley. 4. T. Morley. 5. P. Murphy. 6. M Griffin. 7. P Crowley. 8. J. Barry. 9. D. Moran 10. S O Shea 11. D. Casey 12. K Mc Carthy 13. D. Clifford 14. P. Geaney 15. J O Donoghue
B Team
1.B. Kelly. 2. F. Fitzgerald. 3. S. Enright . 4. R. Shannahan. 5. B. O Beaglaich. 6. G. Crowley. 7. T O Sullivan. 8. J. Crowley 9. B O Sullivan. 10. D. Walsh. 11. D. O Sullivan. 12. M. Burns. 13. S. O Brien. 14. K. Donaghy. 15. BJ Keane.
Honourable mentions. A Maher. K Spillane. M Geaney. J Savage. E O Connochuir. C. Coffey A. Spillane M Flaherty B. O Seanachain G. White Brendan O Sullivan
With the young lads I make it 4 are ready to start and 6 more probably a year away from nailing down a starting place.
Last year our weakest line was our half forward line. I believe this to be one of our strongest this year. This is a massive improvement in such a short space of time.
Our weakest link right now is centre back. I believe M. Griffin has all the attributes to make a great no 6. Hopefully Fitzie has the vision and patience to stick with him here.
Unfortunately I don't think we are quite ready to stop the Dubs just yet but I think next year we will put a halt to the 5 in a row and go on to win quite a few more in the following years. Having said that, if we can avoid them until the final we may have gathered enough momentum and experience to pip them on the day.
What do ye all think?" Dream on, we are not stopping at 5!!
fingalman (Dublin) - Posts: 233 - 28/03/2018 14:53:03
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Replying To fingalman: "Dream on, we are not stopping at 5!!" Howr ye all in county fingal?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/03/2018 15:16:04
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Replying To fingalman: "Dream on, we are not stopping at 5!!" Heard somewhere recently that altogether 30 million has been pumped into the Dublin GAA in the last 12 years so yeah you'd want to be looking at at least 15 for Croke Park to get their money's worth. ...
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/03/2018 16:55:02
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Replying To KerryBoys: "Alright lads,
I've been to all league games this year and from what I've seen of the new lads and what we know of the tried and tested old guard, this in my opinion is our strongest 15 come championship. I've also attached my B team which sees lads breathing down the necks of their opposite numbers in almost every position. We couldn't have said that last year.
A Team
1.S. Murphy. 2. K. Young. 3. J. Foley. 4. T. Morley. 5. P. Murphy. 6. M Griffin. 7. P Crowley. 8. J. Barry. 9. D. Moran 10. S O Shea 11. D. Casey 12. K Mc Carthy 13. D. Clifford 14. P. Geaney 15. J O Donoghue
B Team
1.B. Kelly. 2. F. Fitzgerald. 3. S. Enright . 4. R. Shannahan. 5. B. O Beaglaich. 6. G. Crowley. 7. T O Sullivan. 8. J. Crowley 9. B O Sullivan. 10. D. Walsh. 11. D. O Sullivan. 12. M. Burns. 13. S. O Brien. 14. K. Donaghy. 15. BJ Keane.
Honourable mentions. A Maher. K Spillane. M Geaney. J Savage. E O Connochuir. C. Coffey A. Spillane M Flaherty B. O Seanachain G. White Brendan O Sullivan
With the young lads I make it 4 are ready to start and 6 more probably a year away from nailing down a starting place.
Last year our weakest line was our half forward line. I believe this to be one of our strongest this year. This is a massive improvement in such a short space of time.
Our weakest link right now is centre back. I believe M. Griffin has all the attributes to make a great no 6. Hopefully Fitzie has the vision and patience to stick with him here.
Unfortunately I don't think we are quite ready to stop the Dubs just yet but I think next year we will put a halt to the 5 in a row and go on to win quite a few more in the following years. Having said that, if we can avoid them until the final we may have gathered enough momentum and experience to pip them on the day.
What do ye all think?" I agree with the majority of your team there mate. In the backs I have been impressed with Shanahan and Beaglaoich from what I have seen so far this year so Id have them ahead of Killian Young but its early in the year as he is yet to come back.
Midfield looks a bit one paced but we are severely lacking options in this area unless the likes of Morley or Griffin move there but I dont see this happening.
I think Fitzy has started Burns in every league game so I think he will start when the Championship begins. Casey has been left out alot in the league even with alot of players to return, I dont believe the management have much faith in him and unfortunately the likes of BJ Keane and Mikey Geaney will be ahead of him.
I think O Brien will start on the wing. The full forward line picks itself if all players are fully fit.
I think we have to start looking at some extra protection for the full back line. I like to see Morley protecting the full back line and also of the option of Griffin dropping back when we dont have the ball to help cover the middle of the defense. I think both these players have plenty energy to help in this area instead of the likes of Moran who doesn't cover ground quickly enough.
The management know by now that we need fresh legs in this team but I would not be surprised to see a alot of the same players once the big games come around after the super 8s.
My Championship 15:
1.S. Murphy. 2. B. O Beaglaoich. 3. J. Foley. 4.R.Shanahan. 5. P. Murphy. 6. T.Morley. 7. P Crowley. 8. J. Barry. 9. M.Griffin 10. S O Brien 11. S.O Shea 12. K Mc Carthy 13. D. Clifford 14. P. Geaney 15. J O Donoghue
Fitzys Championship 15:
1.S. Murphy. 2. S. Enright. 3. M.Griffin. 4.F Fitzgerald. 5. P. Murphy. 6. T.Morley. 7. P Crowley. 8. J. Barry. 9. D.Moran 10. S O Brien 11. S.O Shea 12. D.Walsh 13. D. Clifford 14. P. Geaney 15. J O Donoghue
KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 28/03/2018 21:51:56
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We need more and better coaches that's what we need more backroom people I sure we will see Eamon in the stands Sunday watching the dubs trying to hide but what is he going to learn sitting there. I'm wondering if there is going to be more people around the ground to see every move that team makes every strength and check for any little weakness if there is any. On the team itself am I the only one that doesn't want donnaghy back ? This team is young now and it has to stay that way bringing him in now is not going to help one bit imo we don't want to see these young lads looking over their shoulder waiting for him to rescue them if they are loosing . I seen it before with Maurice fitz and the gooch coming back in after the league and the players thinking they will save the day. On another note wondering why every one here thinks Gavin Crowley is the answer at center back. Don't get me wrong I like him very much and was always a big fan and he should have had more game time last year but didn't he start there against Donegal and Mayo and we conceded five goals in those games.
chicago09 (Kerry) - Posts: 694 - 30/03/2018 14:25:12
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All quite on the South-Western front I see! Hope everyone has had a good Easter break.
What did ye all make of the League final yesterday. Thought it was a poor enough game myself and the cynicism on show was depressing. I don't know what's the point of the black card anymore, the amount of lads that were still on the pitch despite blatant examples of what it was meant to stamp out. There should have been three Dublin lands sent marching to the stands alone in the first quarter. The smirk Philly McMahon has anytime a ref calls him over would make your blood boil, surely to God that fella has some tsunami of karma coming his way soon.
Anyway Galway were decent but never really looked like winning.
Long summer ahead but at the minute and it's very hard to see anything at the end of it but another AI for Dublin. I still think we are the only team capable of dethroning them, but will Kerry get far enough to meet them in a championship knock out game like a semi-final or final? If Dublin do the 4 in a row, I think I'll have to emigrate!!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 02/04/2018 15:09:47
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