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Confederate Flag

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Replying To moc.dna: "So if loyalists are attending Gaa matches & start to complain that the Tricolour is offensive & oppressive to them & want it removed, would you agree with that ? Are you aware of something nobody else knows in that you are accusing those of flying the flag at Gaa matches as racists, some accusation on your part. Where is the false equivalency between slavery in the South & the Japanese in WW2, both kept against their will, forced to work, starved, tortured, murdered, detained despite the laws, very little difference, it just doesn't suit your argument. Nobody is condoning what happened in Charlottesville but if we are going to tie ourselves up in knots over everything that offends somebody then we become entangled in a web where nothing can be done. Labelling everybody as racists in order to silence debate is the action of those who themselves have an agenda." The confederate flag is unequivocally a racist symbol. I don't call the Cork fans racist but I struggle to believe how someone bringing that flag to the game doesn't know what it means. There's a huge difference between the national flag of a country still in existence and that has been used for hundreds of years and a flag that was specifically designed to be used in a conflict to prevent the abolition of slavery. The Irish tricolour is our National flag, it doesn't have any specific connotation with being anti anything. It's bloody designed with the thought in mind that there should be peace between Catholics and Protestants. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 15/08/2017 21:40:26 2033906 Link
Strange as it may seem i'd imagine most Cork supporters fly the Confederate flag as it's well... a very nice flag in appearance. Also many have memories of the flag from series like North and South in the 1980s and aren't particularly aware of which side flew it. If we're looking at it from a historical and political point of view it was the flag of honourable men like Robert E. Lee, a brilliant commander and man of substance who was anti slavery, but put Virginia and it's succession before commandership of the US army. It's not a simple question of it being a bad flag flown by bad people. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 15/08/2017 21:47:37 2033908 Link
The best flag I saw was a Waterford one with a picture of Mother Teresa in her blue and white nun's gown. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/08/2017 21:52:19 2033913 Link
Who knew that the Dukes of Hazard were such racists. Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1014 - 15/08/2017 22:02:32 2033916 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "The confederate flag is unequivocally a racist symbol. I don't call the Cork fans racist but I struggle to believe how someone bringing that flag to the game doesn't know what it means. There's a huge difference between the national flag of a country still in existence and that has been used for hundreds of years and a flag that was specifically designed to be used in a conflict to prevent the abolition of slavery. The Irish tricolour is our National flag, it doesn't have any specific connotation with being anti anything. It's bloody designed with the thought in mind that there should be peace between Catholics and Protestants." protestants dont think that way up north alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 15/08/2017 22:19:04 2033925 Link
Flags and symbols etc can represent many terribe things, the confederate flag for example does immediately remind people of slavery, the Nazi flag reminds people of countless horrific atrocities also. But if you strip all that back, they are just flags at the end of the day, they themselves are not guilty of anything, the people waving them around on the other hand, they're the ones you want to watch out for! (Ps, not a dig at Cork supporters who I very much doubt have any malicious intentions, I'm talking mainly about organised political groups and members) The Gaa is becoming more multi-cultural these days though, so I understand why there might be more of an issue with the confederate flag flying around. Ps, it's worth noting though that we often ignore or even support symbols that represent other tyrannical (and far more successful organisations I might add) without a second.......the catholic church is still alive, well and in most of our lives to at least some extent. Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 15/08/2017 22:22:54 2033927 Link
Replying To Jack_Sparrow: "Who knew that the Dukes of Hazard were such racists." That's why Boss Hogg was always trying to get them Duke boys (to paint over the flag on the car). Because Boss Hogg and Enos were the good guys. Cork fans need to drop this flag, it is not worthwhile to be associated with this current racist rubbish. I understand the whole rebel connection but save your county the embarassment of being connected with Klansmen, They are worse than even Kerrymen. CletusVanDamme (Kerry) - Posts: 63 - 15/08/2017 22:26:46 2033930 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "The confederate flag is unequivocally a racist symbol. I don't call the Cork fans racist but I struggle to believe how someone bringing that flag to the game doesn't know what it means. There's a huge difference between the national flag of a country still in existence and that has been used for hundreds of years and a flag that was specifically designed to be used in a conflict to prevent the abolition of slavery. The Irish tricolour is our National flag, it doesn't have any specific connotation with being anti anything. It's bloody designed with the thought in mind that there should be peace between Catholics and Protestants." You missed the point, we are all aware of what the colours symbolise in the Tricolour, the point been if somebody finds it offensive as Loyalists do & complain are we to bow to pressure from certain groups & do away with it as suggested by the President of the Association, where do you stop ? As someone pointed out will the Palestinian flag which is flown at games be banned because of its association with things such as terrorism & homophobia or is it to stay as those who shout the loudest on these matters are left leaning & view the Palestinian flag as honourable, even flown from Council owned buildings in this State. So you see you can go on & on, till it comes to the stage where you just do away with flags. The politics of PC & appeasement are an agenda driven by someone who wants their ideals put first. The whole thing leads to an entanglement where nothing can be done. Cork Gaa fans flying various nations flags for fun are been used to make a political point, nobody is flying them to support political matters in Charlottesville. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 15/08/2017 22:44:58 2033936 Link
Replying To Laois76: "Strange as it may seem i'd imagine most Cork supporters fly the Confederate flag as it's well... a very nice flag in appearance. Also many have memories of the flag from series like North and South in the 1980s and aren't particularly aware of which side flew it. If we're looking at it from a historical and political point of view it was the flag of honourable men like Robert E. Lee, a brilliant commander and man of substance who was anti slavery, but put Virginia and it's succession before commandership of the US army. It's not a simple question of it being a bad flag flown by bad people." Lee married into one of the largest plantations in the US. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/08/2017 22:50:03 2033937 Link
Cork fans don't fly the flag to make a political point, anyone that thinks that's the case doesn't know alot about Cork GAA, and may have their own unscrupulous motives for their "outrage". Its status as a hate symbol, rightly or wrongly (well, wrongly), hasn't always been as concrete as it currently is, especially to those in other countries who consume American mainstream media. However, that flag does represent alot of very nasty stuff, unfortunately, and it would really be better if people stopped using it at matches, regardless of their reasoning. And if you think that continuing to fly it at matches represents a fightback against 'PC/SJW' culture, it doesn't, it just emboldens it. And you just make a rod for your own back, and identify yourself as something you're really not. Again, that's not the fault of Cork GAA fans, its the fault of genuine racists elsewhere. But that's just the reality we have to work with. And I couldn't care less about alot of the Irish people who are currently luxuriating in righteous indignation at the flags use at matches. But I would hate for someone from the USA, who may come from a background that was historically discriminated against in places where that flag is flown, to get the wrong idea about GAA fans if they ever tried to join our GAA family. Maybe this is a good a time as any to retire that flag, and find a new one. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 15/08/2017 22:51:13 2033938 Link
Nothing is ever as simple as your world MesAmis. Midleton (Cork) - Posts:518 - 15/08/2017 20:47:25 2033857 What? It's a flag that represents people who wanted to continue to be allowed to enslave another race of people for profit. That's indisputable. People flying the flag at a GAA match are either completely ignorant of its meaning (The most likely hopefully) or are racist. What's not simple about that? MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 15/08/2017 22:59:49 2033942 Link
Another example of PC gone mad. This flag was never a political symbol for the supporters who carried it into GAA grounds for the past 20 or 30 odd years, it simply relatively matched the Rebel colours, same as Japan Flag and a few other multi cultural flags the Cork supporters have also flown on the Hill, in Thurles, in Killarney, in The Páirc and in many other stadia. Waterford supporters had a flag with Mother Theresa on it last Sunday....in good taste I thought and funny.....but shure the PC brigade will say it was a religious symbol and should have been banned. I for years never knew the Cork supporters flag was a Confederate flag, just thought it was colourful on the day amongst the great variety of other flags the Cork supporters always brought, now with their actions methoughts we can expect far more Confederate Flags at Cork games but for possibly the wrong reasons (which I don't support). At home we used to say "is binn béal ina thost"....the silent mouth is best!!!! This is a controversy of the PC brigade's own making. had they kept their mouth's shut is would all have passed unnoticed to the major majority. Even though a Kerryman I say up The Rebels on this one. dingle2 (Kerry) - Posts: 278 - 15/08/2017 23:02:39 2033944 Link
Since seemingly waving a red and white flag at Cork games is no big deal, I think English and Northern Irish flags should be handed out at the next Cork championship game at Pairc Ui Caoimh. Wouldn't it look lovely to see all the cork folk waving red and white flags. Sligo fans should rush out and buy ISIS flags. Give the Armagh fans orange order and Afrikaans flags. Kilkenny fans could fly Al-Quada flags. Give Laois, Cavan and Monaghan folk Israeli flags. Limerick and Fermanagh fans would look well draped in Hamas flags. Ask the Vatican if Antrim can fly papal flags at their games in the new Casement. Shur it's all a bit of harmless fun, not!!! Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/08/2017 23:06:33 2033946 Link
A flag that is a symbol of racism, white supremacy, oppression and neo nazism has no place in any GAA grounds. Cork fans should stop using it. Now. Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 15/08/2017 23:08:14 2033948 Link
Replying To Killarney.87: "Lee married into one of the largest plantations in the US." Yes and in 1863 he freed most of them on his plantation, which part of was actually Arlington cemetary. In fact Grant no less married into slave owners even though he did so much for Blacks although his dark side was his distaste for jews. So history is history and surely no one is waving a Japanese war flag in support of Japan or Confederate flag to support slavery!! But I thought the GAA had banned flags? I guess they banned pulling face guards too but sure this is the GAA. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 15/08/2017 23:33:03 2033958 Link
Replying To CletusVanDamme: "That's why Boss Hogg was always trying to get them Duke boys (to paint over the flag on the car). Because Boss Hogg and Enos were the good guys. Cork fans need to drop this flag, it is not worthwhile to be associated with this current racist rubbish. I understand the whole rebel connection but save your county the embarassment of being connected with Klansmen, They are worse than even Kerrymen." Boss Hogg was the villain of the show from what I remember. He was always taking part in Criminal schemes and trying to frame the Dukes. Dont recall him having a moral crusade to cover the flag or it being a major issue. That seems to have changed nowadays and I can see how people find the flag offensive. Like not too long ago we had minstrels advertising tea on the telly. Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1014 - 15/08/2017 23:45:37 2033964 Link
Replying To Barnowl94: "A flag that is a symbol of racism, white supremacy, oppression and neo nazism has no place in any GAA grounds. Cork fans should stop using it. Now." Ok Barnow. Which national flags do you deem suitable for GAA grounds? Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 15/08/2017 23:49:34 2033967 Link
Replying To Barnowl94: "A flag that is a symbol of racism, white supremacy, oppression and neo nazism has no place in any GAA grounds. Cork fans should stop using it. Now." Symbol is a very good and relevant word to use too. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/08/2017 23:54:33 2033968 Link
Replying To Barnowl94: "A flag that is a symbol of racism, white supremacy, oppression and neo nazism has no place in any GAA grounds. Cork fans should stop using it. Now." Exactly. Someone made a point above about the former South African flag. Would people defend this being flown at GAA matches also? It's seen as a symbol of a pro-apartheid government, even though it was the actual national flag at the time. You won't see it flown anywhere, for the same reasons the confederate flag shouldn't be flown. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2034 - 15/08/2017 23:56:07 2033970 Link
Keep politics out of the GAA, everyone knows its not in support of any 'group' whatsoever other than one called 'the rebels', its our little world, lets be having fun, no one complained before, and its not as if they're setting a trend for say the Dubs to bring blue and navy swastikas to the Hill. I cringe at the thought of any outside influence having any negative effect on our games. If the GAA start going all PC soon it will be offensive to shoulder a guy just because he plays for the other team! realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 16/08/2017 00:14:02 2033972 Link