National Forum

Confederate Flag

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Now the county board are to discuss this tonight.
Because of its origins it is controversial but should it be simply seen as a show of support and any politics put aside ?

catch22 (USA) - 15/08/2017 18:15:46    2033775

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Storm in a teacup. The lefties have been pushing this proposed ban for a while. What about the Chinese flag or the Soviet or Palestinian flags . These are dodgy emblems in my opinion.
And about 40,000 irish born men fought for the confederacy including the great Colonel Patrick Cleburne (Stonewall of the west) from Ovens in Cork. Many do see the Flag as some symbol of oppression . I know from living in the South that many more see it as a symbol of sacrifice and pride and place.

bloodyban (Limerick) - 15/08/2017 19:09:54    2033806

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Why are Cork fans pretending they fly it because its red and white??
They fly it because they are the "rebel county" and the confederate flag was seen as the "rebel flag"
Why are they pretending otherwise?

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - 15/08/2017 19:14:42    2033808

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The flag has no place at a GAA match. There is absolutely zero justification for it, given what the flag stands for. Personally I think anybody waving it should be thrown out of a ground with their flag.
I am by no means a snowflake, but I think it is a terrible example given what went on in Charlottesville at the weekend. And it set a very bad example of how great our games are to tourists, etc when they see a confederate flag waved on hill 16 in 2017 Ireland.
You'd like to think Irish people had more sense but idiots be idiots.

Pinkie (Wexford) - 15/08/2017 19:21:41    2033815

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Replying To catch22:  "Now the county board are to discuss this tonight.
Because of its origins it is controversial but should it be simply seen as a show of support and any politics put aside ?"
It's a disgrace no place for it

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 15/08/2017 19:43:05    2033829

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It is not and has never been political. Any nation flag with a bit of red in it has been flown in the past by Cork supporters. I can recall the Japan's Rising Sun, the USSR's Hammer and Sickle, Canada's Maple Leaf and even the United State's Stars and Stripes. There has been others on occasion, but I've forgotten what they were.

I understand the rumpus because of what's happening in Charlottesville at the moment, but just because some racist group decides to use what is, after all, a very famous flag, should every one else be banned from using it for other purposes?

The people who bring up this are the people with the problem, and those sort of people want to inflict other people with their problem.

Midleton (Cork) - 15/08/2017 19:44:47    2033830

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The PC crowd making a political statement out of this when the flag has been used innocently by Cork fans with a variety of other flags that have red in them for decades. Will they also ask for the flag of the Rising Sun to be banned next due to the actions of the Japanese towards POW's in WW2. Cork fans are not flying them to make political statements. We had the president of the Association suggest before that if things changed politically here the Gaa would consider doing away with our National flag & Anthem, in light of recent issues this week how long before we are asked to do away with it. The history of the civil war in the States & here are pretty similar & it seems that some want history rewritten & all association with one side obliterated. The history of most countries is not pretty or as in the States right or fair to certain sides, but it's there & was reality at a particular time. Trying to bury it will not change things. If the PC crowd start to discover that half of Gaa clubs are named after freedom fighters they might be forced by media & the political class to do away with them. If everything that offended anybody was to be done away with we would wrap ourselves up in a web of entanglement that would prevent people from doing anything. Individual thought & freedom of expression is been done away with by the PC crowd, once they get away with one item, they will zoom in on the next. Wait for the calls on our national flag & anthem to be up next as it will be linked with violence, terrorism, religion & offends others. Maybe we should have all Sligo flags banned as they have connotations towards ISIS flags & we don't want to offend anyone.

moc.dna (Galway) - 15/08/2017 19:54:59    2033833

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Load of rubbish. Fly the flag as they've done for years, why stop now? Oh yeah, snowflakes!

realdub (Dublin) - 15/08/2017 20:04:04    2033835

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I always liked that flag thought it was cool given at Cork games you'd see so many flags Japanese,Canadian etc but when in later years I found out what it stood for and I was quietly shocked.
It may seem no harm to the people carrying them I'm not sure their beliefs.
Just for the record I have a Sweden flag and my friend has a Barbados flag we used to bring them to Tipp games when we were terrace tinkers!!

WildPundit (Tipperary) - 15/08/2017 20:06:48    2033839

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Its quite simple, the flag has severe racist undertones and when flown in the south of the US, that's what it represents, you can't justify it for that reason.

However, it is simply used to signify "the rebel country" here and is not used for racist reasons, let it be.

Iamlegion666 (Monaghan) - 15/08/2017 20:28:44    2033849

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Replying To moc.dna:  "The PC crowd making a political statement out of this when the flag has been used innocently by Cork fans with a variety of other flags that have red in them for decades. Will they also ask for the flag of the Rising Sun to be banned next due to the actions of the Japanese towards POW's in WW2. Cork fans are not flying them to make political statements. We had the president of the Association suggest before that if things changed politically here the Gaa would consider doing away with our National flag & Anthem, in light of recent issues this week how long before we are asked to do away with it. The history of the civil war in the States & here are pretty similar & it seems that some want history rewritten & all association with one side obliterated. The history of most countries is not pretty or as in the States right or fair to certain sides, but it's there & was reality at a particular time. Trying to bury it will not change things. If the PC crowd start to discover that half of Gaa clubs are named after freedom fighters they might be forced by media & the political class to do away with them. If everything that offended anybody was to be done away with we would wrap ourselves up in a web of entanglement that would prevent people from doing anything. Individual thought & freedom of expression is been done away with by the PC crowd, once they get away with one item, they will zoom in on the next. Wait for the calls on our national flag & anthem to be up next as it will be linked with violence, terrorism, religion & offends others. Maybe we should have all Sligo flags banned as they have connotations towards ISIS flags & we don't want to offend anyone."
That's a ridiculous false equivalency there between the confederacy and Japan.

The confederacy was specifically set up to protect slaveowners from the abolitionists.

The flag is one of the most racist symbols around. It should NEVER have had a place in a GAA ground, even before what happened in Charlottesville. This notion of innocent Cork fans bringing it to matches. That's crap. Cork fans know about what that flag means, it's purely out of stubbornness and a two fingers to "the PC brigade" that they continue to bring it. They need to wise up. It's really not far off the Swastika as a symbol of hate.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 15/08/2017 20:32:02    2033850

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You'd hope that the Cork fans flying the Condeferate Flag are doing so in ignorance rather than making any wider political point.

In this day and age anyone flying that flag are either incredibly ignorant or racist. It's as simple as that.

It was the flag of the Confederacy which wished to protect an individual States' right to allow one group of people to own and enslave another race of people because they felt that that race was inferior or subhuman. The Confederacy felt so strongly about their State's rights to enslave other humans that they started a war over it. That is what that flag represents. There has been numerous attempts at revionist history to downplay the roll of slavery in the American Civil war but it's all BS.

It was the flag of people who thought themselves so superior to another race that they had the right to enslave those people.

The only reason I can fathom that anyone would wish to fly a flag such as the Confederate Flag is that they are completely ignorant of its meaning.

Hopefully we do not see it again in the GAA.

MesAmis (Dublin) - 15/08/2017 20:34:37    2033851

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Replying To MesAmis:  "You'd hope that the Cork fans flying the Condeferate Flag are doing so in ignorance rather than making any wider political point.

In this day and age anyone flying that flag are either incredibly ignorant or racist. It's as simple as that.

It was the flag of the Confederacy which wished to protect an individual States' right to allow one group of people to own and enslave another race of people because they felt that that race was inferior or subhuman. The Confederacy felt so strongly about their State's rights to enslave other humans that they started a war over it. That is what that flag represents. There has been numerous attempts at revionist history to downplay the roll of slavery in the American Civil war but it's all BS.

It was the flag of people who thought themselves so superior to another race that they had the right to enslave those people.

The only reason I can fathom that anyone would wish to fly a flag such as the Confederate Flag is that they are completely ignorant of its meaning.

Hopefully we do not see it again in the GAA."
Nothing is ever as simple as your world MesAmis.

Midleton (Cork) - 15/08/2017 20:47:25    2033857

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sounds like a bit of a reach to imply cork fans are bringing it to make a political point, think theyv simply been bringing them for years..a few of the usual suspects were out on sunday looking for another thing to find outrage in as if a confederate flag ever truly belonged in a gaa ground

alano12 (Dublin) - 15/08/2017 21:07:02    2033879

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's a ridiculous false equivalency there between the confederacy and Japan.

The confederacy was specifically set up to protect slaveowners from the abolitionists.

The flag is one of the most racist symbols around. It should NEVER have had a place in a GAA ground, even before what happened in Charlottesville. This notion of innocent Cork fans bringing it to matches. That's crap. Cork fans know about what that flag means, it's purely out of stubbornness and a two fingers to "the PC brigade" that they continue to bring it. They need to wise up. It's really not far off the Swastika as a symbol of hate."
yeah and lets pretend that what happened during the american civil war was anywhere near on the level of the atrocities the empire of japan commited during ww2 and the years in the lead up to it..either condemn all flags of this sort or none at all...stop trying to find outrage in something that was completely innocent on the part of cork fans

alano12 (Dublin) - 15/08/2017 21:09:27    2033880

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Whatever about Cork fans ignorantly flying it years ago without properly understanding what it represents apart from being 'rebels', it is very poor taste to continue flying the flag now. You'd want to be living under a stone nowadays not to know what that flag represents especially after the riots in Virginia on Saturday. If Croke park stewards didn't do anything about it, it doesn't reflect well on Croke park either.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - 15/08/2017 21:22:56    2033892

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's a ridiculous false equivalency there between the confederacy and Japan.

The confederacy was specifically set up to protect slaveowners from the abolitionists.

The flag is one of the most racist symbols around. It should NEVER have had a place in a GAA ground, even before what happened in Charlottesville. This notion of innocent Cork fans bringing it to matches. That's crap. Cork fans know about what that flag means, it's purely out of stubbornness and a two fingers to "the PC brigade" that they continue to bring it. They need to wise up. It's really not far off the Swastika as a symbol of hate."
So if loyalists are attending Gaa matches & start to complain that the Tricolour is offensive & oppressive to them & want it removed, would you agree with that ? Are you aware of something nobody else knows in that you are accusing those of flying the flag at Gaa matches as racists, some accusation on your part. Where is the false equivalency between slavery in the South & the Japanese in WW2, both kept against their will, forced to work, starved, tortured, murdered, detained despite the laws, very little difference, it just doesn't suit your argument. Nobody is condoning what happened in Charlottesville but if we are going to tie ourselves up in knots over everything that offends somebody then we become entangled in a web where nothing can be done. Labelling everybody as racists in order to silence debate is the action of those who themselves have an agenda.

moc.dna (Galway) - 15/08/2017 21:28:34    2033900

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Whatever about Cork fans ignorantly flying it years ago without properly understanding what it represents apart from being 'rebels', it is very poor taste to continue flying the flag now. You'd want to be living under a stone nowadays not to know what that flag represents especially after the riots in Virginia on Saturday. If Croke park stewards didn't do anything about it, it doesn't reflect well on Croke park either."
PS, white Irish were some of the first British slaves in the West Indies and North America:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - 15/08/2017 21:36:12    2033903

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I quite like the bizarre GAA tradition of flying foreign flags at matches even if they have the most tenous of resemblances to your own colours.
Seems to of died out a bit in recent times. Hope this fiasco doesnt kill it of.
Saw Waterford fans with a Scottish saltire so hope thats not the end of it.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - 15/08/2017 21:36:40    2033904

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I've often seen the Palestinian flag at major GAA matches, a flag which represents an elected governance who's attitude to human rights is appalling. Without going into detail on the horror It is particularly barbaric and discriminatory in respect to woman and gay people.
Presumably it as seen as an Anti Israel flag by the people that bring it to Matches although I once spoke to a lad with one who just liked the flag..

salvador (Roscommon) - 15/08/2017 21:40:16    2033905

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