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I'd agree wholeheartedly with the posters who propose a break with the GAA. Unfortunately the GAA hasn't delivered for hurling. People all over Ireland but in the Hurling heartlands in particular do talk about the need for separation. It doesn't have to be an acrimonious split if it was done now. There could still be links but in all honesty hurling needs new leadership. The game is great. Gaelic football isn't yet look at how it dominates hurling mainly because of poor leadership over the years. The linking it with the Gaelic language and Nationalism doesn't help either..its real makey uppy carry on.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 04/08/2017 20:43:07
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Well its just aswell that Hurling as a sport isnt judged by this forum alone. The day after the Munster final there was just 5 posts on Cork v Clare. There was 46,000 at the match. I think it says more about this forum and who visits it than the status of hurling.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 04/08/2017 21:33:44
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Replying To hill16no1man: "In Dublin I know of three hurling only clubs just off the top of my head in faughs, commercials and setanta, also not 100% sure but reald dearg and civil service and st Kevin's may also be hurling only clubs too as I can't remember seeing or playing them at any level in football." I think Civil Service is the only one of the three of them that call themselves a hurling club, whereas the other two refer to themselves as GAA clubs. Civil Service definitely had Gaelic Football teams in the past too.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 04/08/2017 21:37:36
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3 out of the 7 hurling clubs in Roscommon are exclusively hurling clubs, one of the 3 being Tremane which is the hurling equivalent of a turlough - appears out of nowhere every summer to play senior hurling and then dissappears again - no real village or town called Tremane , just a collection of townlands.
Hurling which has a long tradition in the county with some really old clubs is just about treading water , a long way from 1984 when we were 5 minutes away from being promoted to Div 1 only for scorelines to reverse negatively and we stayed put in Div 2.
Completely disagree with the proposal to have a hurling breakaway from the GAA. There is a shared value system in the GAA, shared resources with pitches , players etc and I think it would be a very sad day if there was a split.
Also agree with comment on the helmets. There are Kilkenny players with 8 AI medals and I wouldnt know them if they sat beside me on the couch. It does make a difference and requires a little imagination to counteract the effect.
facethepuckout (Roscommon) - Posts: 214 - 04/08/2017 22:47:28
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I hate to say it but I think it's time to pay players to bring more interest into both football and hurling codes.
Paying county players is the way forward. A set standard wage regardless of county and amount of games players. Communist wages if you will. The second some counties start getting more than others the game is finished and you will have the Paddy McBreaty's and Aidan O'Shea's of the world lining up for Dublin after the transfer window is opened.
If you pay county players in hurling, it will promote the game in counties where the sport isn't big. If young lads know there's a bit of money in it it might stop them going for soccer,rugby etc when they're at that age. It will make the GAA a bit more glamorous for teenagers as they can some day aim to actually form a career of sorts from the game plus it will take players back from AFL for football.
The other way to promote hurling is very simple and it's lesson that can be learnt from St.Patrick. Start with the youth up. Don't expect 30 year old men to suddenly become passionate hurling fans when they grew up with football all their lives. Forget about converting the seniors supporters of any county..or even the over 12's for that matter. It starts at about six and that's the target market age if you want to develop a counties hurling structure.
Separate the GAA into two separate bodies. GAA which would just be football and let hurling have it's own thing. I do feel like the GAA currently doesn't do enough for hurling outside of the southern areas. Let hurling be in itself then have the hurling body set up structures for underage in schools/communities weak counties. Pump some money into them. Get ex hurlers appearing for summer camps etc. Kids only want someone to look up to. In Kerry/Tyrone/Mayo/Donegal this is senior football teams and the big names on those teams.This is passed on through their family from birth and is difficult to get a county thinking differently. . . but if a child likes and enjoys hurling and sees a few faces of older lads coaching them who are into their hurling they will flourish and just like the game for what it is not caring if it is a minority sport or not.
The Issue with all this is that it is set on a collision course with Football and taking the counties future footballers into a different code and it also happens the other way around and is exactly why Kilkenny has no senior team in the Championship. It all sounds nice trying to promote it but deep down football counties don't want to lose more players to hurling and vice versa. The only way out of that I think is by paying senior players and glamourising the sport a little so it will draw away from soccer, rugby and all other sports ...but then you will have these lot complaining too.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 04/08/2017 22:52:10
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Replying To Hardtimes: "It's a pity hurling isn't played more but that's just the way the association developed. There were two forms of the game back in the day, ioman and caman. The former is the form of the game we have today, the latter was more widespread, played all over and similar to shinty. Caman was a ground game. Games would have been very rough and loosely organised. Not sure what type of ball or sticks they had but I'm sure they used what was available, probably plenty of blackthorn.
Ioman was popular in the southern counties. There was much more gentrification in these areas so the games would have been better organised as there were more people with time on their hands to do such. There would have been a better defined set of rules and plenty of access to quality ash. The association formed in Thurles so naturally the founders would have been most influenced by the southern form of the game, if they were even aware of the northern game at all. Rules were drawn up for the two codes we have today and organised structures put in place with understandably no provisions for caman made. The game died out. Naturally hurling prospered where they grow the ash, football where they grow the rush." Hurling prospered where they grow the ash, football where they grow the rush.... aah, and now I know why Gaelic football is called "Bog Ball"... a sport that has similarities literally to field it was founded on....Crap!
murrax (Wexford) - Posts: 90 - 05/08/2017 11:06:10
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Replying To Hardtimes: "It's a pity hurling isn't played more but that's just the way the association developed. There were two forms of the game back in the day, ioman and caman. The former is the form of the game we have today, the latter was more widespread, played all over and similar to shinty. Caman was a ground game. Games would have been very rough and loosely organised. Not sure what type of ball or sticks they had but I'm sure they used what was available, probably plenty of blackthorn.
Ioman was popular in the southern counties. There was much more gentrification in these areas so the games would have been better organised as there were more people with time on their hands to do such. There would have been a better defined set of rules and plenty of access to quality ash. The association formed in Thurles so naturally the founders would have been most influenced by the southern form of the game, if they were even aware of the northern game at all. Rules were drawn up for the two codes we have today and organised structures put in place with understandably no provisions for caman made. The game died out. Naturally hurling prospered where they grow the ash, football where they grow the rush." Great post! Yes the rush and the ash was a great old saying!
Funny though where i am in Laois is very much the rush as are our 2 bordering clubs in Carlow and Kilkenny. However we have football in my club but 2 'rush' hurling clubs beside us in Carlow and Kilkenny. Little anomalies.
The likes of Christian brothers moving to weaker counties from strong and other pioneers can play a part in the spreading of the game.
I find in Ulster in particular, Camogie is very strong relative to hurling.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 05/08/2017 11:49:54
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Hurling and camogie are played in all 32 counties and it means everything to those who play. Ok so there are only a few counties that can win the big medals, same as Gaelic. The football culture has all the slagging threads and the tit for tat stuff that is more tabloidy in nature, "one horse pony" etc etc, posters tend to have more craic with the football, it's all good
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1670 - 05/08/2017 12:30:46
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Replying To Laois76: "Great post! Yes the rush and the ash was a great old saying!
Funny though where i am in Laois is very much the rush as are our 2 bordering clubs in Carlow and Kilkenny. However we have football in my club but 2 'rush' hurling clubs beside us in Carlow and Kilkenny. Little anomalies.
The likes of Christian brothers moving to weaker counties from strong and other pioneers can play a part in the spreading of the game.
I find in Ulster in particular, Camogie is very strong relative to hurling." Yes Laois76, round our way camogie would be fairly popular. Wouldn't be even comparable to hurling and with some clubs women's football would take a distant second. It ebbs and flows that way depending who in the club is willing to take the bull by the horns and put a concerted effort into promoting either code. But men's football is so ingrained it makes hurling a very hard sell.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 05/08/2017 12:38:13
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Replying To murrax: "Hurling prospered where they grow the ash, football where they grow the rush.... aah, and now I know why Gaelic football is called "Bog Ball"... a sport that has similarities literally to field it was founded on....Crap!" You can't bate a day out in the bog!
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 05/08/2017 12:45:54
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Someone was posting on this thread about football being less predictable than hurling, I'm sure I buy that.
Most people would have tipped Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone as the most likely to win the all-Ireland this year. I would have given anyone any odds on a team outside those 4 winning the all Ireland at the start of the year. We have 5 teams left now and it's the 4 of them and Roscommon.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 05/08/2017 21:57:09
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Replying To Killarney.87: "Someone was posting on this thread about football being less predictable than hurling, I'm sure I buy that.
Most people would have tipped Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone as the most likely to win the all-Ireland this year. I would have given anyone any odds on a team outside those 4 winning the all Ireland at the start of the year. We have 5 teams left now and it's the 4 of them and Roscommon." The teams in football fluctuate over the years.Tyrone and Mayo may well fade away in the near future and the likes of Galway and Meath will return etc etc that's what has always happened in football and it will continue to happen.With less teams playing hurling you effectively have 10 teams that can have a chance of competing in football almost every county will have a golden period over the long to medium term and compete.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 06/08/2017 00:08:58
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The likes of Christian brothers moving to weaker counties from strong and other pioneers can play a part in the spreading of the game.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:591 - 05/08/2017 11:49:54
Unfortunately for many children in Ireland, the existence, let alone the movement, of Christian Brothers had a devastating effect.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2478 - 06/08/2017 00:11:01
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "The teams in football fluctuate over the years.Tyrone and Mayo may well fade away in the near future and the likes of Galway and Meath will return etc etc that's what has always happened in football and it will continue to happen.With less teams playing hurling you effectively have 10 teams that can have a chance of competing in football almost every county will have a golden period over the long to medium term and compete." In the last 10 years 9 hurling teams have reached at least one semi final and 7 have played in at least one final.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 06/08/2017 02:18:31
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Replying To Killarney.87: "Yeah, I am not sure I get your reference to Shinty Keeper 7? I think something like Rugby league in England would be a better comparison?" Someone said shinty was going great guns compared to hurling.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 06/08/2017 12:05:48
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Replying To keeper7: "Someone said shinty was going great guns compared to hurling." Well it wasn't me anyway.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/08/2017 06:24:50
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "The likes of Christian brothers moving to weaker counties from strong and other pioneers can play a part in the spreading of the game.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:591 - 05/08/2017 11:49:54
Unfortunately for many children in Ireland, the existence, let alone the movement, of Christian Brothers had a devastating effect." Well it didn't for Offaly hurling. And that statement can be measured. Yours is a generalisation of a statement.
Scraping the barrel a bit now when that's all you come back with.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 07/08/2017 10:05:56
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Replying To Killarney.87: "In the last 10 years 9 hurling teams have reached at least one semi final and 7 have played in at least one final." And in 20 years time the same 9 teams will be the ones getting to the quarters and semi finals.
That was the point I was making.
In football you could have over a period of 7 or 8 years 10 teams getting to the semi finals and then 20 years later in a seperate 7 or 8 year period you could have 10 teams getting to the semi final however half of those 10 teams could be different than the 10 teams form 20 years before.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 07/08/2017 11:06:57
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "And in 20 years time the same 9 teams will be the ones getting to the quarters and semi finals.
That was the point I was making.
In football you could have over a period of 7 or 8 years 10 teams getting to the semi finals and then 20 years later in a seperate 7 or 8 year period you could have 10 teams getting to the semi final however half of those 10 teams could be different than the 10 teams form 20 years before." Yeah I don't agree with that. Kerry and now Dublin have a greater strangle hold on Football or at least as Great as the 3 big ones in hurling. Some football teams that get to quarters and semis are so far off winning an all ireland that they don't even register. This super 8 could be an awful shambles with double digit wins for kerry and Dublin every week.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 07/08/2017 11:42:31
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Replying To bloodyban: "Yeah I don't agree with that. Kerry and now Dublin have a greater strangle hold on Football or at least as Great as the 3 big ones in hurling. Some football teams that get to quarters and semis are so far off winning an all ireland that they don't even register. This super 8 could be an awful shambles with double digit wins for kerry and Dublin every week." That situation is now.
It will change.
People really don't seem to understand the point I made, it's fairly simple.
There are 8 to 10 teams competing at anywhere close to hurlings top level and those teams have pretty much been the same forever and will not change.
In football the top 8 or 10 change all the time and only really Dublin and Kerry have been constants in the top 8 or 10.All the teams in hurlings top 10 are pretty much the same teams that will be there in 20 years time and were there 20 years ago, you won't get 4 or 5 of them falling out of that group and 4 or 5 new counties replacing them.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 07/08/2017 11:54:54
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