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Jamie Clarke

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No love lost between Tyrone and Armagh supporters I see. Tyrone might well be able to suffocate Clarke out of the game but if he were born in Tyrone he would be first name on their team sheet. That's not even debatable.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 11:53:22    2026557

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "No love lost between Tyrone and Armagh supporters I see. Tyrone might well be able to suffocate Clarke out of the game but if he were born in Tyrone he would be first name on their team sheet. That's not even debatable."
I'm not a Tyrone native by the way - so don't start a fracas between Tyrone and Armagh fans! You actually can have an opinion without a bias.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 12:14:46    2026579

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "I'm not a Tyrone native by the way - so don't start a fracas between Tyrone and Armagh fans! You actually can have an opinion without a bias."
Fair enough but it sounded biased. I don't think your comparisons were like for like. Canavan and Marty Clarke played in a different era where there was still plenty of scope for top forwards to dominate their area/man in a weaker team against top opposition. In the last few years it's practically impossible to plough a lone furrow as a forward against a top team. You need help because the same space is not there.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 12:49:20    2026595

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Fair enough but it sounded biased. I don't think your comparisons were like for like. Canavan and Marty Clarke played in a different era where there was still plenty of scope for top forwards to dominate their area/man in a weaker team against top opposition. In the last few years it's practically impossible to plough a lone furrow as a forward against a top team. You need help because the same space is not there."
Marty Clarke's era wasn't too long ago and will into the current blanket defense era.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 13:37:31    2026631

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "No love lost between Tyrone and Armagh supporters I see. Tyrone might well be able to suffocate Clarke out of the game but if he were born in Tyrone he would be first name on their team sheet. That's not even debatable."
Ahead of Mattie Donnelly? I wouldn't have thought so.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 31/07/2017 13:56:16    2026643

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Marty Clarke's era wasn't too long ago and will into the current blanket defense era."
Football was still more open and very different so it doesn't matter if it wasn't that long ago. It was a different era.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 13:58:53    2026647

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Replying To Thomas Clarke:  "Ahead of Mattie Donnelly? I wouldn't have thought so."
Yes Donnelly is a massive player for them but they could still tweak their team around in his absence. IMO they are crying out for a player like Clarke that would give them an extra dimension.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 14:09:36    2026656

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Football was still more open and very different so it doesn't matter if it wasn't that long ago. It was a different era."
Sure was puke football not created in 2003?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 31/07/2017 14:21:43    2026666

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Football was still more open and very different so it doesn't matter if it wasn't that long ago. It was a different era."
Are you actually serious? If you are then you're deluded - if anything it's opened out a lot more now.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 14:25:30    2026674

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Are you actually serious? If you are then you're deluded - if anything it's opened out a lot more now."
No, you're wrong.

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 31/07/2017 14:34:51    2026685

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Replying To Tom1916:  "No, you're wrong."
Well let's agree to disagree and leave at that.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 15:04:25    2026712

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Are you actually serious? If you are then you're deluded - if anything it's opened out a lot more now."
So much for allowing opinions and being non biased! Not many teams deployed massed defense up to 2010. Marty Clarke didn't come up against it too much that year but against Tyrone in Ulster he didn't "carry Down" too well as you put it. In the back door he faced plenty of open teams and had greater influence.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 15:04:52    2026713

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "So much for allowing opinions and being non biased! Not many teams deployed massed defense up to 2010. Marty Clarke didn't come up against it too much that year but against Tyrone in Ulster he didn't "carry Down" too well as you put it. In the back door he faced plenty of open teams and had greater influence."
In 2010, Marty Clarke played behind his own midfield, and sprayed the ball around like a quarterback. He didn't play in attack, as there was far more space to be found in the middle third..

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 31/07/2017 15:46:05    2026743

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Replying To Thomas Clarke:  "In 2010, Marty Clarke played behind his own midfield, and sprayed the ball around like a quarterback. He didn't play in attack, as there was far more space to be found in the middle third.."
I'm aware of that but it was IrishGael who made the Marty Clarke comparison and said Jamie Clarke couldn't carry a team in the same manner. Of course having Mark Poland and Benny Coulter up front, you could certainly have bigger crosses to bear.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 31/07/2017 15:56:47    2026751

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The expectation that great players never have quiet games is just plain stupid.

No 1 man has ever won a game at the latter end of the championship on his own. To expect someone to drag his team through like that particularly from corner forward is just not realistic.

Jamie Clarke is a brilliant footballer, he could go out against Tyrone and have very little impact but that won't be solely his fault.

Armagh on Saturday were very good at getting men up to support Clarke. Rafferty was excellent when he came on. Clarke was wonderful but he didn't win that game on his own by any stretch and he actually was quite quiet in the first half, hit a few poor balls into Murnin. It was when Murnin went off that Clarke really came into his own.

It was a pleasure to be at the game and watch him moving and working that hard for the team.

Mayo and Roscommon forwards could do with watching that ahead of their replay.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 31/07/2017 16:01:56    2026758

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Not too sure of your point and the general reaction to my opinion on Clarke. If you read my threads I was counteracting many posts that Kildare were unlucky in last game saying that Armagh were superior in every department - so I don't have an anti-Armagh agenda at all - far from it - the more Ulster teams that challenge the Kerry Dub duopoly the better. My opinion is that Clarke is not one of the best forwards to play the game and I challenge you to tell me otherwise - he hasn't done anything for Armagh against the bigger teams when it counts and is frequently marked out of it when he does play against them. Many counties have nice players like Jamie - case being Galway and we saw what happened to them yesterday against Kerry who played really poorly. What he does for Cross in club doesn't count because you're not up against the calibre you get at county. Now if he dictates the game at weekend and wins it for Armagh then I will be happy to take my hat off to him. Canavan carried Tyrone for many years before the successful noughties and took them to an AI final as did Marty Clarke for Down - so talking about Jamie not playing for brilliant teams isn't a great argument!"
Well last week the hoganstand rated kildare as the 5th best team in ireland and we beat them, we beat tipp who were in the all ireland semis last year, at the end of the armagh havent really played a top team in a while. Hes only played in a few top teams in his career as we havent played dublin kerry or mayo in a long time so its a bit silly your argument. We beat tyrone and did well against donegal and meath. Then all the club scene i think thats were your wrong top players show more in club especially the level hes got too i think he has won 3 all ireland clubs when he left cross struggled so work that one out

credit_crunch (Armagh) - Posts: 57 - 31/07/2017 16:25:25    2026773

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Replying To credit_crunch:  "Well last week the hoganstand rated kildare as the 5th best team in ireland and we beat them, we beat tipp who were in the all ireland semis last year, at the end of the armagh havent really played a top team in a while. Hes only played in a few top teams in his career as we havent played dublin kerry or mayo in a long time so its a bit silly your argument. We beat tyrone and did well against donegal and meath. Then all the club scene i think thats were your wrong top players show more in club especially the level hes got too i think he has won 3 all ireland clubs when he left cross struggled so work that one out"
Ok understand you defending your man - let's see if can show his class on Saturday against a very tough defence - if he does good luck to him and I will be routing for Armagh in semi!

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 16:52:20    2026794

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Ok understand you defending your man - let's see if can show his class on Saturday against a very tough defence - if he does good luck to him and I will be routing for Armagh in semi!"
Like Conor Mc Manus was very quiet on Sat for most of the game he chalks up big scores because he takes frees same as cillian o connor

As I said before Clarke just doesnt score for Armagh he creates the play. I fully expect him to roam about if there is two men on him there is one free which maybe some like rafferty and o neill or soupy could take advantage off. Its going to be interesting to see what happens. I think it will be tough for Armagh no question but I bet any money they will show a hell of bottle.. With one weeks rest v three weeks for tyrone. I expect it to be similar to the Armagh v Donegal match a few years ago we basically have a free pop at Tyrone no1 is expecting us to win bar our own fans great position to be in.....

credit_crunch (Armagh) - Posts: 57 - 31/07/2017 17:46:27    2026815

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Replying To credit_crunch:  "Like Conor Mc Manus was very quiet on Sat for most of the game he chalks up big scores because he takes frees same as cillian o connor

As I said before Clarke just doesnt score for Armagh he creates the play. I fully expect him to roam about if there is two men on him there is one free which maybe some like rafferty and o neill or soupy could take advantage off. Its going to be interesting to see what happens. I think it will be tough for Armagh no question but I bet any money they will show a hell of bottle.. With one weeks rest v three weeks for tyrone. I expect it to be similar to the Armagh v Donegal match a few years ago we basically have a free pop at Tyrone no1 is expecting us to win bar our own fans great position to be in....."
Agree

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 31/07/2017 17:48:50    2026816

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Ok the game where Jamie scored 1 from play and was pretty much anonymous, Tyrone played most of second half without Mattie Donnelly getting a second yellow and Armagh starting a melee early in game like they did against Cavan I believe - so Jamie wasn't the reason Armagh won that game Tony Kernan scored more? I remember a young Jamie who apparently was on top of his game playing against Conor Gormley who was pretty much hanging together with medical tape and almost retired - that day there was only one winner and it wasn't Jamie. But getting back to point - he is a good player and needs to be watched not a great player. Armagh however need to look to other players to step up because Tyrone will ensure he is marked tightly - perhaps they could keep off another melee and I say that seriously - anything to disrupt Tyrone."
Not a great player eh? I've heard it all now. Gee I wish you were giving advice to Mickey Harte! Bet you Mickey thinks he's a great player and will duely have 3 players on him with the rest of the team on that side of the field too!!

DooReg (Armagh) - Posts: 33 - 31/07/2017 18:41:31    2026855

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