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When you draw with a team in an all-ireland final you're real contenders! Do you mean to say Mayo weren't real contenders in last years all ireland final and replay? I'd bet Sam would be in Mayo if Rochford hadn't changed goalies. Another question that's hard to answer is what would Mayo have been like in 2016 with Holmes and Conneely on their second year? They drew with the Dubs and lost a replay in 2015, same as Rochford. With the Galway hurlers O'Donoghue's first year wasn't hectic. They lost to an average Kilkenny team in Leinster and all-ireland finals. He looked so timid on the sideline each day, that he was being compared to a Parish curate. He got a second and third chance that wasn't afforded to Holmes and Connelly. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 18/07/2017 22:46:22 2018988 Link 6 |
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He lost the dressing room .. but was clinging on despite that ... mcgrath could have left gracefully when he had the chance .. I agree with gotmilk .... county board put the blinkers on and don't take on the learned input of senior players. Yes mcgrath achieved much 2 years ago ... yes 2 years ago .. 2016 was flat and 2017 was horrible .... we have much to thank mcgrath for but in that classic line .... he has taken the team as far as he can KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 334 - 18/07/2017 23:14:58 2019001 Link 0 |
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I knew my Cunningham comment would have blowback. Comparing all these different situations is like apples and oranges. From what I heard of the new Galway set up they were going to go places, that was what I heard last year despite what you may have thought of how they were last year. Do I think Mayo would have been in the final last year under Holmes and Connelly? No i don't, but players don't just wake up and decide to blame the manager. All this old school talk is nonsense. Players should just get on with it bla bla. It isn't that simple. Maybe Galway won't get over the line this year but IMO they look better this year and more physically and tactically prepared than any other year. And you mention he was compared to a parish curate? By Loughnane? The only thing worse than having a poor opinion is to borrow one from the likes of Loughnane or Brolly. Loughnane is basically the Dunphy of the hurling brigade. I'll finish by saying sometimes players can reach great heights under poor management short term, but long term bluffers tend to get found out.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 18/07/2017 23:19:13 2019004 Link 0 |
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If a manager is useless or has had a fair shot but the team is getting worse, then player power in theory isn't a bad thing. However, human nature being what it is, you can never rule out payers wanting to get rid of a good-but-tough manager on personal grounds. Do we trust players to always act for the right reasons? If a manager, or indeed any boss, has told you a few home truths, you may dislike him and that may colour your opinion of him. In an ideal world, managers would be competent and popular; but a % of competent people in all walks of life aren't necessarily likable. essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 18/07/2017 23:46:05 2019015 Link 0 |
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i think its disrespectful to say that players should just play, they are the ones making the biggest sacrifices and understand far more about what a manager brings compared to someone on the county board, remember managers are paid so i havent that much sympathy for a lot of them if players feel training or a manager isnt up to scratch then id have to side with them as they know more than the rest of us or should do so anyway alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 19/07/2017 00:03:31 2019020 Link 1 |
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And you mention he was compared to a parish curate? By Loughnane? The only thing worse than having a poor opinion is to borrow one from the likes of Loughnane or Brolly. Loughnane is basically the Dunphy of the hurling brigade. I'll finish by saying sometimes players can reach great heights under poor management short term, but long term bluffers tend to get found out. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts:5223 - 18/07/2017 23:19:13 2019004 Loughnane may be sensationalist in his utterances but there's one massive credit on his cv, winning an all-ireland in 1995 with a bunch of no hopers/serial final losers who hadn't won a Munster since 1932 and all-ireland since 1914. He followed it up with an all-ireland in 1997 beating Cork, Kilkenny and Tipp twice. So there's a little irony when a Mayo man calls him the Dunphy of the hurling brigade. Does Rochford the messiah the Mayo players wanted post 2015 look like he'll do something similar? Call it old school if you like but the fact remains that player power in the gaa generally takes place in underachieving counties who continue to underachieve after the heave. Cork didn't topple the Cats when Denis Walsh came in, Waterford didn't reach the holy grail when Justin McCarthy got the heave, Laois hurlers didn't perform any better after ridiculing Teddy McCarthy in the national press, Mayo are in that same perennial position they've been in for donkeys years. Contenders in 1989, 1996, 1997, 2004, 2006, 2011-17 etc. You generally don't here of player power with Kilkenny hurlers, Kerry footballers and Dublin footballers. Even after years of falling at the final hurdle with Pillar the Dublin players remained remarkably loyal. It doesn't take Einstein to work out that stability and putting the head down and, i admit, proper appointment of coaches with consultation, leads to results. The player has to look in the mirror and analyse his own shortcomings first. It's too easy saying your not where you want to be because of this guy, or other things being wrong. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 19/07/2017 00:32:08 2019025 Link 7 |
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The players are the one's putting in the effort and they are entitled to have their opinions heard.if the players don't get what they want they can simly not play and that doesn't get the county team anywhere. uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2017 08:01:18 2019049 Link 0 |
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Where did I question the achievements of Loughnane with Clare? You are totally missing the point. I am talking about how he is regarded now as a pundit. And just because a manager leaves and that group don't win an All ireland it doesn't mean the new manager isn't any better than the old one. Your outlook is beyond simplistic.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 19/07/2017 08:09:27 2019050 Link 0 |
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Players should play if they are focused and dedicated on their own jobs they shouldn't have time for doing a second job.ie coaching. County players play at the highest level because of their ability on the pitch , they don't make great coaches , a lot of them and very few have tried administration ,at club level I've seen coaches get on the elbow as senior players took feedback personal or they disagree with selection. Now days some players feel they can play coach and ref a match everything I've told juveniles not to try and do.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 08:50:34 2019058 Link 1 |
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on the flip side don't see fermanagh doing any better with pete gone.he got the best out of that group of players.. ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 19/07/2017 08:54:20 2019061 Link 0 |
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Realistically, Can anyone take them any further? I guess there's only one way to find out. I know that there where high hopes when Canavan took over including from Tyrone fans as well and that never materialised but now who would you want to take over Fermanagh? Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 19/07/2017 09:17:13 2019080 Link 0 |
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I don't believe that players should have final saying in choosing a manager, but I do think that they should have input. Any county/club board that puts in place a manager who the players don't want is only asking for trouble. Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 19/07/2017 09:57:29 2019100 Link 0 |
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In fairness there is a big difference in getting a team promoted from division 4 to 3 then getting a team up to division 2 and staying there. Canavan had a poor championship record. Judging a manager on a pre season tournament is ridelous. The quality of player available to Mcgrath was a lot lower then in 2004. I would be surprised if the new manager does anywhere near as well as Mcgrath.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 19/07/2017 11:11:46 2019152 Link 0 |
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Without using google name 5 players off both the 04 team and this years team. I've never seen as many experts on Fermanagh football from across the country than I have in the recent days. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2017 11:15:33 2019156 Link 0 |
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He didn't keep them in D2 - they were relegated this year. So you're telling me that McGrath, who started in D3 and finished in D3, has been more successful than all those others? Let's not let McGrath's name and intercounty record (albeit from 25 years ago) fool us - he did an ok job with Fermanagh, but nothing more than any of his predecessors did. I'm not saying that the next Fermanagh manager will do any better, but McGrath didn't do enough in his 4 years to warrant the outcry that his ousting has generated. Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 19/07/2017 11:23:55 2019165 Link 0 |
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Loughnane was speaking as a pundit with managerial experience when commenting on O'Donoghue. A pundit is a product of his playing days, managerial experience etc. You have an inability to see the bigger picture. And sometimes simplistic is better when it comes to winning trophies. For example, Alex Ferguson was the boss, he managed, players played and they knew where the boundaries were.They were very successful. Same with Cody, Mick O'Dwyer, Jim Gavin, Heffo etc. Anytime you have difficulty with an opposing argument you accuse a poster of missing the point. We're discussing player power here. Everything i've mentioned in my posts on this thread is related to that point. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 19/07/2017 12:41:38 2019225 Link 6 |
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Original poster most comments are generic as is original post , player power overall Fermanagh is just the latest of many a county were it has occurred. As for being experts no from Fermanagh be it posters on here or the actual players themselves have enlightened us , posters because its all innuendo and hearsay and the players because they are hiding under a rock somewhere their silence is deafening. Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 13:15:39 2019241 Link 0 |
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I think there silence says a lot about them. Some of the rumours doing the rounds about McGraths treatments of players is quite damming of the man. He has spoken to numerous outlets about the incident since the heave yet they haven't disclosed anything. They don't want to tarnish his reputation but he's willing to do it to the players. That for me says everything.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2017 13:38:17 2019268 Link 0 |
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2004.. Mark Little, Barry Owens, McGrath Fermanagh who had the heart problem, Tom Brewster (winning point v Armagh in quarter final), Liam McBarron (midfielder played with Kilmacud), McSherry. This year, Ryan McCluskey (who i think was around in 2004), Sean Quigley, Tomas Corrigan, Barry Mulrone. And to be completely honest i can't name a 5th off hand! Just shows the impression the 2004 team made. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 19/07/2017 13:39:06 2019269 Link 6 |
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Do you not find it a little strange that over 30 years this man has built a reputation , one of knowledgeable and good man management , yet you have described Cunningham Dublin hurling manager in your posts. Outside of your county nobody recognises the character you have described.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 15:19:12 2019335 Link 0 |