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Super 8 this year would be exciting

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I think you won't see it for a couple of reasons, the first one being the money from the gate for the GAA (nothing to do with Dublin) and also I think most teams want to play in Croke Park. If that means playing Dublin there twice, so be it. I wouldn't see any real disadvantage to playing them there, and sure it's all the sweeter if you manage to keep the Hill quiet :)

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/07/2017 16:11:12    2019373

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Other than the GAA HQ influenced by money i don't see the sense in having two groups for the final eight. Backdoor/qualifiers has already taken a lot of fizz out of games which in the past was total knock out and had no safety net if you lose. Fermanagh 2004,Wexford 2008 and even Tipp last summer reaching the All Ireland semi final were great underdog stories the type of excitement that a cup competition needs. Sadly the "super 8" will more than likely kill those underdog stories now.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3766 - 20/07/2017 21:48:44    2020249

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The super 8 series will only make more money for the GAA, petrol/diesel stations, pubs and restaurants, it means the top 4 teams will qualify for the semis, no more shock results, and if the bottom 2 are already out and have to play each other it will be a turkey of a game. The idea is money and TV rights driven, it does nothing for the fans having to pay and attend 3 games instead of 1, nothing for the counties involved except fatigue and injury, playing 3 games instead of 1 and especially nothing for weaker counties, if the GAA concentrated more on how to sort out the weaker counties problem and get them up to a higher standard rather than parading 8 teams in worthless games just to please RTE and Sky it would be better for the game, will the GAA give up 100% of the revenue generated by every super 8 match to the improvement of weaker counties, I doubt it

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 20/07/2017 22:49:19    2020293

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Super 8 will be great for those Super 8. Their extra media exposure will give them more endorsement opportunities on top of their share from the extra games. I can't help but think it'll widen the standards gap between the Super 8 and the not great 8. If you're from a bottom 16 county currently you'll be lucky to see 2 minutes of your teams match including the managers speaking. But the game shown on Sunday Game live that day will take top billing on the Sunday Game that night??? While the analysts big up the Super 8 and condescendingly talk about a B championship. I think the Super 8 will eat itself."
Good point about 25 teams will get little or no exposure only for the experts to dump them in the b championship

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/07/2017 23:01:25    2020301

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Replying To The_analyser:  "Other than the GAA HQ influenced by money i don't see the sense in having two groups for the final eight. Backdoor/qualifiers has already taken a lot of fizz out of games which in the past was total knock out and had no safety net if you lose. Fermanagh 2004,Wexford 2008 and even Tipp last summer reaching the All Ireland semi final were great underdog stories the type of excitement that a cup competition needs. Sadly the "super 8" will more than likely kill those underdog stories now."
I don't really see why people keep saying that

So teams will need to win 2 games from 3 instead of a one off game.

Yes it's a bit more difficult, but still not impossible, plus 1 of the games is against another qualifier.

You look at Fermanagh a few years ago. Would they rather a one off game v Dublin or 3 games against some of the top teams. If they got lucky they could get through with 1 win.

There will still be fairy tale stories. Any team qualifying gets 3 games against top opposition at the height of the summer. That would only be great for that teams development.

If there was a proper qualifier system in place for the competition where teams are guaranteed a few more games and the competition was expanded to 12 teams I think you've got yourself a hell of a good championship.

Say the Provincial groups

Ulster plus London 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 1 group of 6
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5

Semifinals in Ulster and Leinster, finals in Munster and Connacht for top 2 teams.

Winners of those games into All Ireland series and Provincial finals for the Ulster and Leinster teams.

6 loser play 6 third place teams from the group for the final 6 All Ireland places.

The All Ireland series works with every team playing 3 matches.

6 teams with the best records into knockout round. 2 best records getting straight into the semifinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 20/07/2017 23:02:22    2020302

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I always did wonder what the arrangements for the Super 8 would look like. If everyone is to have one home game, one away game and one neutral venue game then EVERYONE should have to do that. And I'm very seriously not applying this as an anti Dublin thing, just saying everyone should be treated exactly the same. They tell us that most county grounds around the country can't host Dublin though and if that's the case, the Super 8 as a concept was stupid from the beginning because the basic tenant of everyone playing home, away and neutral couldn't work from the get go. I know the dub fans will say Croke Park isn't their home to start with but that's disingenuous at this stage. So the teams that draw Dublin will effectively play twice away and once at home, maybe you won't even get your home game either if your ground isn't considered up to scratch. The Super 8 is a TV revenue vehicle and it's going to leave the bulk of counties behind while enhancing the elite even further.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 20/07/2017 23:21:30    2020314

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Replying To riverboys:  "The super 8 series will only make more money for the GAA, petrol/diesel stations, pubs and restaurants, it means the top 4 teams will qualify for the semis, no more shock results, and if the bottom 2 are already out and have to play each other it will be a turkey of a game. The idea is money and TV rights driven, it does nothing for the fans having to pay and attend 3 games instead of 1, nothing for the counties involved except fatigue and injury, playing 3 games instead of 1 and especially nothing for weaker counties, if the GAA concentrated more on how to sort out the weaker counties problem and get them up to a higher standard rather than parading 8 teams in worthless games just to please RTE and Sky it would be better for the game, will the GAA give up 100% of the revenue generated by every super 8 match to the improvement of weaker counties, I doubt it"
Excellent post I think the gaa if the could get away with it would have dublin and kerry playing 10 times a year and the rest could just go away. This super 8 limits the chances of the likes of roscommon or tipperary or down ever making a semi final again

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 21/07/2017 00:07:49    2020342

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't really see why people keep saying that

So teams will need to win 2 games from 3 instead of a one off game.

Yes it's a bit more difficult, but still not impossible, plus 1 of the games is against another qualifier.

You look at Fermanagh a few years ago. Would they rather a one off game v Dublin or 3 games against some of the top teams. If they got lucky they could get through with 1 win.

There will still be fairy tale stories. Any team qualifying gets 3 games against top opposition at the height of the summer. That would only be great for that teams development.

If there was a proper qualifier system in place for the competition where teams are guaranteed a few more games and the competition was expanded to 12 teams I think you've got yourself a hell of a good championship.

Say the Provincial groups

Ulster plus London 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 1 group of 6
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5

Semifinals in Ulster and Leinster, finals in Munster and Connacht for top 2 teams.

Winners of those games into All Ireland series and Provincial finals for the Ulster and Leinster teams.

6 loser play 6 third place teams from the group for the final 6 All Ireland places.

The All Ireland series works with every team playing 3 matches.

6 teams with the best records into knockout round. 2 best records getting straight into the semifinals."
What about the non Super 8 teams?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 21/07/2017 01:15:29    2020351

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Replying To Cuckoosinging:  "What games look imbalanced?"
well I know for fact that Roscommon would prefer to be on that side of the group

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 760 - 21/07/2017 09:10:08    2020377

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Replying To kildare73:  "I always did wonder what the arrangements for the Super 8 would look like. If everyone is to have one home game, one away game and one neutral venue game then EVERYONE should have to do that. And I'm very seriously not applying this as an anti Dublin thing, just saying everyone should be treated exactly the same. They tell us that most county grounds around the country can't host Dublin though and if that's the case, the Super 8 as a concept was stupid from the beginning because the basic tenant of everyone playing home, away and neutral couldn't work from the get go. I know the dub fans will say Croke Park isn't their home to start with but that's disingenuous at this stage. So the teams that draw Dublin will effectively play twice away and once at home, maybe you won't even get your home game either if your ground isn't considered up to scratch. The Super 8 is a TV revenue vehicle and it's going to leave the bulk of counties behind while enhancing the elite even further."
I know the dubs have a huge following but like soccer games if you play away from home there is only a certain amount of tickets allocated to the away fans if you cant get tickets so be it, I think it will bring a end to have filled stadiums in the latter stage of the championship. for example if the dubs were going down to Thurles that stadium would be backed out I think it will greatly improve the atmosphere of games.

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 760 - 21/07/2017 09:18:03    2020381

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This might be a silly idea but my fear with the super 8 is that you will have a nothing game at the end of the group games, so my though was like the rugby if you lose by less then 5 for example you get 1 point this may improve quality of mtches. If you were to do that you would have to increase it to 3 points for a win and 2 for the draw. I dono if it would make any difference but it may

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 760 - 21/07/2017 09:22:35    2020383

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "What about the non Super 8 teams?"
They've played more games in the Provincial championships.

Sport isn't communism.

At some point the best teams have to play more games. It's about getting the balance right so that everyone plays a minimum number of meaningful matches but that there's still something to aspire to.

Reaching a Super 12 (8 is too small in my opinion) would have a certain amount of prestige to it, much like qualifying for an international soccer tournament for the Irish team.

Having 3 games per team, running the competition with a single ladder and having byes to the semifinals available would reduce the number of dead rubbers in the last round of games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 21/07/2017 11:28:23    2020456

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Replying To Whammo86:  "They've played more games in the Provincial championships.

Sport isn't communism.

At some point the best teams have to play more games. It's about getting the balance right so that everyone plays a minimum number of meaningful matches but that there's still something to aspire to.

Reaching a Super 12 (8 is too small in my opinion) would have a certain amount of prestige to it, much like qualifying for an international soccer tournament for the Irish team.

Having 3 games per team, running the competition with a single ladder and having byes to the semifinals available would reduce the number of dead rubbers in the last round of games."
That's elitism. Where is the balance between top counties and those at the bottom? The so-called weaker counties are being shafted. Next they'll push through a B championship increasing the widening gap between the top and bottom. Absolutely no initiative to try and get Divisions 3 and 4 counties to improve standards by somehow trialling a competition where they can be mixed in with Division 1 and 2 teams.

They'd be lucky to see two minutes of their county on The Sunday Game in early provincials and qualifier rounds while the live games of top counties will have extended highlights??? Can't see anything but less coverage for these counties once the Super 8 Elite has been established. What has a prospective weaker county player who's in college got to look forward to now? A much poorer standard than what he's playing in college. His Super 8 comrade is getting a few quid from endorsements because of their increased media exposure. He also plays soccer and a bit of rugby and these now look more attractive because he could at least get some more reward than a poor standard of football while the elite take all the glory. I hope it never happens but some parts of Ireland will have little or no intercounty football in 20 years if they don't reduce the gap between top and bottom.


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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 21/07/2017 12:27:10    2020507

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Replying To Tarismelting22:  "I know the dubs have a huge following but like soccer games if you play away from home there is only a certain amount of tickets allocated to the away fans if you cant get tickets so be it, I think it will bring a end to have filled stadiums in the latter stage of the championship. for example if the dubs were going down to Thurles that stadium would be backed out I think it will greatly improve the atmosphere of games."
It was only little over a year ago Nowlan Park was considered the only ground in leinster capable of holding a neutral championship game in leinster. Add Portlaoise and maybe Navan to that and you are bunched for a ground holding the Dublin crowd. Even their own Parnell Park can't come close to holding them. Go across the country and more often than not home grounds of counties will be too small too. If it were Kerry town it would be the same. I think lots of fans will want to go watch the best teams coming to their own back yard. Do you think the GAA will be happy just selling out 10,000-15,000 capacity venues all ticket and not looking for bigger available grounds to get more people in? Can't see it. If not then the Super 8 home, away and neutral idea is beaten to start with.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 21/07/2017 13:00:18    2020532

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Replying To Whammo86:  "They've played more games in the Provincial championships.

Sport isn't communism.

At some point the best teams have to play more games. It's about getting the balance right so that everyone plays a minimum number of meaningful matches but that there's still something to aspire to.

Reaching a Super 12 (8 is too small in my opinion) would have a certain amount of prestige to it, much like qualifying for an international soccer tournament for the Irish team.

Having 3 games per team, running the competition with a single ladder and having byes to the semifinals available would reduce the number of dead rubbers in the last round of games."
There will be no balance though. The gap in standards between top and bottom can only widen as the GAA want to cash in on Super 8 and seem happy to propose a B championship where those at the bottom can only aspire to a poor standard. Closer to elitism than communism

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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 21/07/2017 13:21:43    2020546

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "There will be no balance though. The gap in standards between top and bottom can only widen as the GAA want to cash in on Super 8 and seem happy to propose a B championship where those at the bottom can only aspire to a poor standard. Closer to elitism than communism

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I agree I don't like the system as is being proposed at present.

If there were a better qualifying system involving more games for weaker counties with games against strong counties and if the competition were expanded to include more teams then I think you're on to a winner.

My original post was just that taken on its own in a vacuum, without thought on the affect it would have on weaker teams, the 2 groups that would have materialised this year look like they'd have thrown up more excitement than a round of quarterfinals.

You'd have Kerry's group wide open for that second semifinal spot.

The Dublin Tyrone group would be very tight between all 4 teams. Winning the group would be an advantage to avoid a semi with Kerry.

I am in agreement though I think the GAA is somewhat letting down the teams that are perennially out of championship after 2 or 3 games by not looking to do something with the early rounds of the championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 21/07/2017 14:23:01    2020577

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What if people turn their back on the Group Games
waiting to see who emerges instead

Scarabin (Dublin) - Posts: 116 - 21/07/2017 15:19:07    2020603

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I don't really see why people keep saying that

So teams will need to win 2 games from 3 instead of a one off game.

Yes it's a bit more difficult, but still not impossible, plus 1 of the games is against another qualifier.

You look at Fermanagh a few years ago. Would they rather a one off game v Dublin or 3 games against some of the top teams. If they got lucky they could get through with 1 win.

There will still be fairy tale stories. Any team qualifying gets 3 games against top opposition at the height of the summer. That would only be great for that teams development.

If there was a proper qualifier system in place for the competition where teams are guaranteed a few more games and the competition was expanded to 12 teams I think you've got yourself a hell of a good championship.

Say the Provincial groups

Ulster plus London 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 1 group of 6
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5

Semifinals in Ulster and Leinster, finals in Munster and Connacht for top 2 teams.

Winners of those games into All Ireland series and Provincial finals for the Ulster and Leinster teams.

6 loser play 6 third place teams from the group for the final 6 All Ireland places.

The All Ireland series works with every team playing 3 matches.

6 teams with the best records into knockout round. 2 best records getting straight into the semifinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1574 - 20/07/2017 23:02:22 2020302

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Whatever the team sport underdogs in a cup competition look to catch teams on the hop in a one off game if they are put into a group the chances of them getting out of that is very low. Fermanagh went as far as could in 2015 matter of fact they wouldn't have reached that quarter final at all if Cormac Reilly didn't give them one of the softest penalties and turned that game on its head against us.


I'm weary reading and listening to all these formats changes the championship should have and that the best teams needs to play more often totally ignoring the rest. We have the best GAA format played from Feb to April called the NFL an ideal development ground for all counties and GAA HQ should be finding ways to make that competition more important than having a daft round robin for the final 8 in the All Ireland championship.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3766 - 21/07/2017 17:00:40    2020650

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Replying To The_analyser:  "I don't really see why people keep saying that

So teams will need to win 2 games from 3 instead of a one off game.

Yes it's a bit more difficult, but still not impossible, plus 1 of the games is against another qualifier.

You look at Fermanagh a few years ago. Would they rather a one off game v Dublin or 3 games against some of the top teams. If they got lucky they could get through with 1 win.

There will still be fairy tale stories. Any team qualifying gets 3 games against top opposition at the height of the summer. That would only be great for that teams development.

If there was a proper qualifier system in place for the competition where teams are guaranteed a few more games and the competition was expanded to 12 teams I think you've got yourself a hell of a good championship.

Say the Provincial groups

Ulster plus London 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 1 group of 6
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5

Semifinals in Ulster and Leinster, finals in Munster and Connacht for top 2 teams.

Winners of those games into All Ireland series and Provincial finals for the Ulster and Leinster teams.

6 loser play 6 third place teams from the group for the final 6 All Ireland places.

The All Ireland series works with every team playing 3 matches.

6 teams with the best records into knockout round. 2 best records getting straight into the semifinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1574 - 20/07/2017 23:02:22 2020302

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Whatever the team sport underdogs in a cup competition look to catch teams on the hop in a one off game if they are put into a group the chances of them getting out of that is very low. Fermanagh went as far as could in 2015 matter of fact they wouldn't have reached that quarter final at all if Cormac Reilly didn't give them one of the softest penalties and turned that game on its head against us.


I'm weary reading and listening to all these formats changes the championship should have and that the best teams needs to play more often totally ignoring the rest. We have the best GAA format played from Feb to April called the NFL an ideal development ground for all counties and GAA HQ should be finding ways to make that competition more important than having a daft round robin for the final 8 in the All Ireland championship."
I couldn't agree more with your last point.

One of the simplest most exciting formats you could have would involve having the NFL being played in parallel to a traditional style All Ireland cup. The League would be a straight whoever finishes top of the pile is champion.

The overall AI champion is a winner of a playoff between the League champion and the All Ireland cup champion. A team winning the double is automatically champion.

The competition could actually be run off in 14 games weeks. Allowing for break weeks it could take 4 months and be incredibly exciting, with the weaker teams playing in a meaningful competition. You do lose out on qualifier runs though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 21/07/2017 18:05:54    2020666

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Replying To Scarabin:  "What if people turn their back on the Group Games
waiting to see who emerges instead"
The Dubs will be playing 2 games in Croke Park against top teams. That alone will nearly account for as much of a crowd as the quarterfinals will get. Just look at the Dubs following for the NFL.

Fans will probably go to their teams home games provided they're still in contention.

Games between qualifiers in Croke Park probably won't get great crowds. I'd say less than a 4th round qualifier.

The formats downfall will be when a team gets a virtual walkover by coming up against an already eliminated team. A team out of contention will be back training with their clubs and their players won't want to risk injury for a pointless fixture, which will make a mockery of the competition at such an advanced stage.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 21/07/2017 19:19:20    2020689

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