National Forum

Mayo vs Clare

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Replying To yew_tree:  "So Clare should be favourites? If Clare pull of a shock I will be in here to congratulate them. I don't see anybody disrespecting Clare."
I'm not referring to Mayo fans. Clare achievements have been subjected to an awful lot of condescension on this website over the last 12 months.

What I mean is if they were to beat a team like Mayo the doubters and cynics would have to give them some credit for a change.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/07/2017 03:08:27    2011756

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I certainly think Clare + 5 is worth taking on the handicap but Mayo to scrape through which is all you need to do at this stage of the qualifiers.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 07/07/2017 07:13:42    2011769

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "I'm not referring to Mayo fans. Clare achievements have been subjected to an awful lot of condescension on this website over the last 12 months.

What I mean is if they were to beat a team like Mayo the doubters and cynics would have to give them some credit for a change."
Unfortunately most of the talk would be about Mayo if that happened. What Clare have done is phenomenal when you think where they've come from and the consistency they have shown

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 07/07/2017 07:24:14    2011776

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Replying To dingle2:  "Sorry yes one season in Div 2 but heading into second season there, still they are evolving as a very solid outfit and outside of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone who are ahead of the rest they are in with the likes of Galway, Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan, Kildare & Meath in terms of development. I don't rate Mayo - I never did. They simply can't take their scores when it matters. Lee Keegan & Keith Higgins are possibly two of the best footballers in the country but what's the use when most of their forwards can't score consistently from open play. Keegan knows where the posts are and I'm sure if he was drafted to wing forward he could cause havoc but then who would replace him in defence. Ditto with Higgins.

I expect a big game from Cleary and Malone for Clare and while Tubridy had a very quiet game against Laois he was spot on for much of the Kerry game. Brennan will also relish the Mayo game and it will be a big opportunity for Cathal O'Connor to prove that he is an intercounty standard mid-fielder so he shouldn't be holding back.

Clare 2-12 Mayo 1-10 my prediction."
Just so I'm clear - you rate Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Galway, Donegal, Kildare, Monaghan, Cavan, Meath and Clare all ahead of Mayo? Only 3 of these teams have made it past the quarter finals in the last 5 years and 4 haven't even won a provincial title in that time. And these are all better than the same Mayo team who have been the 2nd best team in the country for most of the past 5 years? Even at that they have been 2nd best to Dublin who are possibly the greatest team in the last 20 years/50 years/all time depending on your opinion. I have no problem with you prediction for Clare to win and I actually feel they will run Mayo very close but to suggest all of the above teams are better than them is utterly ridiculous.

razor425 (Roscommon) - Posts: 45 - 07/07/2017 07:59:54    2011804

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Mayo are in the same bracket as Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal & arguably Monaghan who were given a nasty shock by Down. Mayo have put it up to the other top teams over the last few years and fully deserve to be respected.

Clare have been phenomenal in their achievements as have Tipperary, and they may well run Mayo tight in Ennis, but for people to say that Mayo are a poor team and rate them behind the likes of Cavan & Meath, thats pure nonsense.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 07/07/2017 08:16:37    2011813

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Replying To razor425:  "Just so I'm clear - you rate Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Galway, Donegal, Kildare, Monaghan, Cavan, Meath and Clare all ahead of Mayo? Only 3 of these teams have made it past the quarter finals in the last 5 years and 4 haven't even won a provincial title in that time. And these are all better than the same Mayo team who have been the 2nd best team in the country for most of the past 5 years? Even at that they have been 2nd best to Dublin who are possibly the greatest team in the last 20 years/50 years/all time depending on your opinion. I have no problem with you prediction for Clare to win and I actually feel they will run Mayo very close but to suggest all of the above teams are better than them is utterly ridiculous."
The sum of Mayo's individual parts has imo always been greater than their overall team - hence great individuals but no success at end of line. Always the perennial runner's up. Yes they are a good team when lower tier standards are applied but when ever asked the big question they have failed the test especially against Kerry & Dublin (& now most recently again Galway). This is nothing new and has been happening for the past 25 years or so especially in finals against Kerry, Dublin & Meath.
I will only seriously rate Mayo when they actually manage to lift Sam and show they actually have the wherewithal to do so. Lack of consistently scoring forwards = defeat.
My first visit to Croke Park was a Kerry v Mayo league fina,l back in 1971/2 I think, and the same affliction cost Mayo back then just the same as it's costing them now. They were the 'league experts' back then but same as now couldn't hack it in the championship. Yes I am a doubting Thomas as far as Mayo is concerned and I won't believe it that they are are a really good team until I actually see it happen and they win Sam.
Yes they may indeed beat Clare tomorrow (though I have grave doubts in this regard) but they won't get over the line against a Kerry or Dublin side who are both constantly improving and improvising and who possess fantastic scoring forwards. Nearly 50 years experience of attending GAA league and championship matches has provided me with enough evidence to back up my opinion.

dingle2 (Kerry) - Posts: 278 - 07/07/2017 10:03:56    2011835

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "I'm not referring to Mayo fans. Clare achievements have been subjected to an awful lot of condescension on this website over the last 12 months.

What I mean is if they were to beat a team like Mayo the doubters and cynics would have to give them some credit for a change."
I've seen very little that I would deem condescension in relation to Clare football. Most people seem to acknowledge that Clare's trajectory is on the rise but this has been steady rather than spectacular. Why do people feel the need to overstate an achievement rather than take it on its face value merits?

Clare have only really appeared on several people radar since last year. In that time they've been promoted to division 2 and stayed up this year. They also reached an All-Ireland quarter final, beating 4 teams to do so. This is all positive.

If you look at the details, they got promoted on points difference from a group of 3 teams. They avoided relegation on points difference from a group of 3 teams. In championship, they beat a team relegated to division 4, a team relegated to division 3, a team in division 3 and a team in division 1. They also lost two championship games by an accumulative 23 points (albeit, both against Kerry). This is decent but not spectacular.

Clare may well beat Mayo this weekend but the smart money says Mayo will win. This is a realistic appraisal of the situation, backed up by the bookies' odds. If they do beat Mayo, I'd consider this a big shock but did Longford beating Monaghan last year put them up on a pedestal for more than a few days? Limerick made the quarter finals a few years ago but not many people were talking about them and not for any duration of time. If Clare consistently start reaching the last 8 of the championship, then maybe they'll get the respect / credit you feel is denied them. Personally, I think they've been given the credit and respect that their performances, to date, merit.

I predict a Mayo win tomorrow. I don't feel any requirement to add the ridiculous "no disrespect to Clare" to my prediction. My prediction is based on objective reasoning. Adding the "no disrespect to Clare" - now that is condescension.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 07/07/2017 14:14:54    2011992

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Replying To dingle2:  "The sum of Mayo's individual parts has imo always been greater than their overall team - hence great individuals but no success at end of line. Always the perennial runner's up. Yes they are a good team when lower tier standards are applied but when ever asked the big question they have failed the test especially against Kerry & Dublin (& now most recently again Galway). This is nothing new and has been happening for the past 25 years or so especially in finals against Kerry, Dublin & Meath.
I will only seriously rate Mayo when they actually manage to lift Sam and show they actually have the wherewithal to do so. Lack of consistently scoring forwards = defeat.
My first visit to Croke Park was a Kerry v Mayo league fina,l back in 1971/2 I think, and the same affliction cost Mayo back then just the same as it's costing them now. They were the 'league experts' back then but same as now couldn't hack it in the championship. Yes I am a doubting Thomas as far as Mayo is concerned and I won't believe it that they are are a really good team until I actually see it happen and they win Sam.
Yes they may indeed beat Clare tomorrow (though I have grave doubts in this regard) but they won't get over the line against a Kerry or Dublin side who are both constantly improving and improvising and who possess fantastic scoring forwards. Nearly 50 years experience of attending GAA league and championship matches has provided me with enough evidence to back up my opinion."
That pretty much sums Mayo up to date. The difference I see in this team is that they are less likely to lay down and be steamrolled as has happened to Mayo teams in the past and their tackling has improved tremendously. While this team may not win an All Ireland the tactics and experience they have gained may help train future lads to succeed.... Hopefully....

offtheboat (USA) - Posts: 57 - 07/07/2017 15:13:11    2012017

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I've seen very little that I would deem condescension in relation to Clare football. Most people seem to acknowledge that Clare's trajectory is on the rise but this has been steady rather than spectacular. Why do people feel the need to overstate an achievement rather than take it on its face value merits?

Clare have only really appeared on several people radar since last year. In that time they've been promoted to division 2 and stayed up this year. They also reached an All-Ireland quarter final, beating 4 teams to do so. This is all positive.

If you look at the details, they got promoted on points difference from a group of 3 teams. They avoided relegation on points difference from a group of 3 teams. In championship, they beat a team relegated to division 4, a team relegated to division 3, a team in division 3 and a team in division 1. They also lost two championship games by an accumulative 23 points (albeit, both against Kerry). This is decent but not spectacular.

Clare may well beat Mayo this weekend but the smart money says Mayo will win. This is a realistic appraisal of the situation, backed up by the bookies' odds. If they do beat Mayo, I'd consider this a big shock but did Longford beating Monaghan last year put them up on a pedestal for more than a few days? Limerick made the quarter finals a few years ago but not many people were talking about them and not for any duration of time. If Clare consistently start reaching the last 8 of the championship, then maybe they'll get the respect / credit you feel is denied them. Personally, I think they've been given the credit and respect that their performances, to date, merit.

I predict a Mayo win tomorrow. I don't feel any requirement to add the ridiculous "no disrespect to Clare" to my prediction. My prediction is based on objective reasoning. Adding the "no disrespect to Clare" - now that is condescension."
Kerry played Clare twice and Tipp once last year and that was seen as a handy route to the semi finals for Kerry.

The Munster football championship endures endless ignorance on here.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/07/2017 15:13:18    2012018

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Kerry played Clare twice and Tipp once last year and that was seen as a handy route to the semi finals for Kerry.

The Munster football championship endures endless ignorance on here."
I guess that's a fair statement.

Its the system that's flawed and to blame, not the constituent parts. Teams can only play what's put in front of them.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 07/07/2017 15:33:57    2012029

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I guess that's a fair statement.

Its the system that's flawed and to blame, not the constituent parts. Teams can only play what's put in front of them."
Exactly, Clare beat Laois, Sligo away and Roscommon to get there. Sligo are a grossly underrated team. It was either Sligo's first ever home defeat in the qualifiers or first in a long long time.

Tipp beat Cork, Derry and Galway (hammered them).

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/07/2017 15:54:52    2012044

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Unfortunately most of the talk would be about Mayo if that happened. What Clare have done is phenomenal when you think where they've come from and the consistency they have shown"
That's the problem. Clare would get no credit it would all be about the demise of Mayo.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/07/2017 18:10:59    2012089

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I've seen very little that I would deem condescension in relation to Clare football. Most people seem to acknowledge that Clare's trajectory is on the rise but this has been steady rather than spectacular. Why do people feel the need to overstate an achievement rather than take it on its face value merits?

Clare have only really appeared on several people radar since last year. In that time they've been promoted to division 2 and stayed up this year. They also reached an All-Ireland quarter final, beating 4 teams to do so. This is all positive.

If you look at the details, they got promoted on points difference from a group of 3 teams. They avoided relegation on points difference from a group of 3 teams. In championship, they beat a team relegated to division 4, a team relegated to division 3, a team in division 3 and a team in division 1. They also lost two championship games by an accumulative 23 points (albeit, both against Kerry). This is decent but not spectacular.

Clare may well beat Mayo this weekend but the smart money says Mayo will win. This is a realistic appraisal of the situation, backed up by the bookies' odds. If they do beat Mayo, I'd consider this a big shock but did Longford beating Monaghan last year put them up on a pedestal for more than a few days? Limerick made the quarter finals a few years ago but not many people were talking about them and not for any duration of time. If Clare consistently start reaching the last 8 of the championship, then maybe they'll get the respect / credit you feel is denied them. Personally, I think they've been given the credit and respect that their performances, to date, merit.

I predict a Mayo win tomorrow. I don't feel any requirement to add the ridiculous "no disrespect to Clare" to my prediction. My prediction is based on objective reasoning. Adding the "no disrespect to Clare" - now that is condescension."
I take your point but I think too much emphasis is placed on league and yeah I would agree with you Laois have been terrible.

There are some very good teams in Division 3. Tipp just about got out of there this year. I think there are teams in division 2 who are happy to coast there for years and pretend to themselves they are still a big team. Laois fell through for Division 2 trap door and kept falling cos they found out the hard way how good the division 3 standard is.

I would hate to be drawn away to Sligo or Longford in the qualifiers. Plenty of teams learnt the hard way how hard a prospect that is. Longford really put it up to Donegal and home advantage probably got Meath over the line against Sligo. That why I loved when Tipp drew Division 2 sides in the qualifiers cos they thought we would be a handy one.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 07/07/2017 18:18:56    2012091

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Clare are useful and are not to be dismissed lightly on their home patch in Ennis. Mayo are vulnerable with injuries, suspensions and some players struggling to hit form.
Those of us naturally rooting for the underdog today may later lament like 2016 that Kerry can again reach the last four by beating Clare twice and a dis jointed Cork in a Munster final in Killarney ( neither of them a Division 1 team). A Kerry v Mayo clash would be a tasty quarter final and their first championship meet since Limerick 2014.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 08/07/2017 11:53:53    2012304

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Replying To Curlew66:  "Clare are useful and are not to be dismissed lightly on their home patch in Ennis. Mayo are vulnerable with injuries, suspensions and some players struggling to hit form.
Those of us naturally rooting for the underdog today may later lament like 2016 that Kerry can again reach the last four by beating Clare twice and a dis jointed Cork in a Munster final in Killarney ( neither of them a Division 1 team). A Kerry v Mayo clash would be a tasty quarter final and their first championship meet since Limerick 2014."
If I hear anymore about Division1,2, 3 or 4 teams during the cship I'll go mad.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 08/07/2017 13:34:16    2012328

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Replying To Curlew66:  "Clare are useful and are not to be dismissed lightly on their home patch in Ennis. Mayo are vulnerable with injuries, suspensions and some players struggling to hit form.
Those of us naturally rooting for the underdog today may later lament like 2016 that Kerry can again reach the last four by beating Clare twice and a dis jointed Cork in a Munster final in Killarney ( neither of them a Division 1 team). A Kerry v Mayo clash would be a tasty quarter final and their first championship meet since Limerick 2014."
This is exactly the sort of guff I am referring to. This obsession with Kerry isunhealthy. I do recall this 'useful' Clare team giving Roscommon a nice trimming in 2016.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 08/07/2017 14:41:02    2012341

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Where in the name of god did they get this referee?
Clare playing well.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 08/07/2017 17:34:06    2012396

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What a great first half of championship football. Total commitment in front of a big crowd with some excellent scores kicked. Surely Clare can't keep up that level of intensity and Mayo will start to get a grip of the game in the second half.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 08/07/2017 17:40:23    2012398

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Well half time, here lads going anywhere nice for your holidays this year?

Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 660 - 08/07/2017 17:45:57    2012399

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Will try again. Clare playing very well but where in the name of god did they get this ref?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 08/07/2017 17:46:05    2012400

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