National Forum

Time for the 'qualifiers' to go?

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the weak teams are all more or less gone by the end of June even with the qualifiers, the odd one will get a third game maybe, I don't know the solution but a team that cannot win a first round provincial game or 2nd round game on a consistent basis is not going to win the all Ireland by the back door...good runs are grand and all that but who really remembers them in a few years other that the counties involved which is fair enough, but they don't come back and win a minor or U21 a few years after as a result of a good run in the qualifiers by their senior 5/10 years prior..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 27/06/2017 16:07:10    2006383

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Replying To the_walls:  "The mainland? Do you live on Inishturk or something?"
I'd have a lot more peace and quiet if I did!

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 27/06/2017 16:16:40    2006389

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One idea from France and Germany could be imported here - in those countries, teams from lower divisions automatically get home advantage in cup competitions - it may not be practical for all stages of the Championship, but could certainly be implemented for qualifier ties.

anciarraioch82 (Kerry) - Posts: 33 - 27/06/2017 16:28:00    2006393

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It needs a change BUT any county that has been involved in Tommy Murphy - old " B " All Ireland -Christy Ring ,etc know how the Gaa treat these competitions with total lack of respect and just try to get them early and out of the way thus the creation of the Super 8's

curnew (Wicklow) - Posts: 449 - 27/06/2017 16:58:27    2006413

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Replying To anciarraioch82:  "One idea from France and Germany could be imported here - in those countries, teams from lower divisions automatically get home advantage in cup competitions - it may not be practical for all stages of the Championship, but could certainly be implemented for qualifier ties."
Yeah, London and New York for example are already guaranteed a home tie to kick off proceedings so you could argue there's a precedent in the GAA for that.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 27/06/2017 17:01:22    2006416

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Replying To MedwayIrish:  "Yeah, London and New York for example are already guaranteed a home tie to kick off proceedings so you could argue there's a precedent in the GAA for that."
London and New York shouldn't even be in it.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 27/06/2017 20:24:30    2006490

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "London and New York shouldn't even be in it."
Why's that?

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 27/06/2017 20:41:29    2006506

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Replying To MedwayIrish:  "Yeah, London and New York for example are already guaranteed a home tie to kick off proceedings so you could argue there's a precedent in the GAA for that."
Something along those lines is coming in along with the super 8 next year.

If you look at the qualifiers in terms of how it affects who wins the All Ireland then it hasn't benefited weaker counties.

If you look at it in terms of how many games teams are playing, everybody kind of wins. There's 60 ties in a back door All Ireland compared to 32 in the old style.

There have been a good number of relative successes from the qualifiers being introduced.

Fermanagh nearly reached an All Ireland final. All Ireland quarterfinal appearances from most of the teams in the country.

Look there are big problems. Scheduling club games around the qualifiers, unfairness on Leinster and Ulster teams.

I think I'd remove the qualifiers and keep the Provincial championships alongside a group stage.

4 groups of 8. 12 teams qualify for the knockout rounds from this. 8 group winners plus a playoff between group runners up for 4 more places.

Play the Provincial championships. If a team wins their Province and has qualified for the knockout rounds through the group stage they get a bye to the quarterfinals. If they have failed to qualify from the group stages they'll get a knockout place in the first knockout round. There will be 1 fewer bye a 1 extra first round games.

The group stage will be seeded by division. Division 4 teams guaranteed to play Division 1 teams at home.

Teams play either 1 or 2 home group games depending on whether they have had 4 or 3 home league games. Every team will have 5 home and away games.

Games will be more easily scheduled.

Reduces the fairness problem whilst still rewarding Provincial champions for winning their championship out.

Provincial championship returns to being do or die. Doesn't start until mid June but is run off quickly.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/06/2017 20:46:30    2006507

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I would do away with national league, play provincial league instead which would do away with provincial championships.

Then go for a group stage All-Ireland, 8 groups of 4, top 2 in each group go on to play for Sam, bottom 2 in each group go in to B knockout cup (it can be named after me saying as i came up with the idea)

This way you still have your provincials and everyone has at least 4 championship games. All games in group stages played at neutral venues (no home/away), first round of knockout at neutral venue, then all games from q/finals on in Croker.

What do you think? Have i missed something or have i just come up with a masterplan?

Dermoot (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 27/06/2017 21:34:12    2006542

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Replying To curnew:  "It needs a change BUT any county that has been involved in Tommy Murphy - old " B " All Ireland -Christy Ring ,etc know how the Gaa treat these competitions with total lack of respect and just try to get them early and out of the way thus the creation of the Super 8's"
The problem with Tommy Murphy Cups and B Championships is you get to play in them because you have lost a game/games.. because your a loser!

Solution - have different main competitions for different levels - a league based championship with the top 4 from each division reaching the knockout stages. Example: English Championship, Division 1 etc. Teams in Division 1 don't whine cause they cant be Champions of England. Its far more logical that the work their way up and earn the right to compete at that level.

The provincial championship would remain and run in parallel - Just like the FA Cup in England.

You'd have a defined season, consolidated into a number of months, enabling proper club championship planning.

Teams would be guaranteed a large amount of games which would make sense considering the amount they prepare and train

This is an easy solution which improves our product greatly. It resolves all current complaints. Its not anything like the past which means it has merit. The approach to the game has drastically changed. Our main competition needs to follow suit.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 27/06/2017 21:43:29    2006551

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The Super 8 and the Top 16 that it will most likely will expand to will comprise of provincial finalists and qualifiers. I don't envisage qualifiers going. They might just reduce to two rounds with 8 qualifiers joining 8 provincial finalists in a Top 16 of 4 groups of 4.

Anyone expecting a return to straight knockout is in cuckoo land.

The majority of counties will want a qualifier route for the group stage for those knocked out of the provincial championships. It will give all teams at least two chances of making the group stage.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 27/06/2017 22:26:05    2006581

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