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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Weaker teams don't improve either by getting hammered by the top teams. At least when they're playing teams at their own level they do not suffer humiliation and there's a better chance they'll retain the enthusiasm for the game to keep trying to improve." They beat Offaly. Now they'll go on to play Armagh. A team around their level. If they win that they'll get another game against the likes of a Monaghan, Wexford, Cavan, Tipp, Carlow. All games they'd fancy winning. They then play a qualifier round 4 against Down or Kildare most likely. Again those are the sorts of games Kildare should aim to be winning.
There's actually loads of opportunities for teams to play games at their own level with the current structures.
The only way to stop teams getting hammered by Dublin is to give Dublin a bye to the semifinals. So I don't see why people go so nuts when a team gets hammered by the them.
It's also not a waste of time. 33k people were prepared to go along to that game yesterday. A band would need to sell out the 3 arena 3 times to get that sort of crowd.
I think anyone calling for Provincial championships to be removed are pretty short sighted. 33k or so people attending a game is not to be sniffed at. You'd never get close to that going to a B championship game. Those sorts of things matter for sponsors, whatever Westmeath get now it'd only decrease if they weren't playing in the Leinster championship.
Young Westmeath fans going to that game were probably not impressed by their own team yesterday. They may have been inspired by how good Dublin were though. Maybe Westmeath's next Dessie Dolan was there and picked something up from Dublin's forward play which will stick with him.
I'd be worried about the elitist road some would advocate. If we went that way years ago we may never have seen the likes of Conor McManus, Mattie Forde or Declan Browne emerge from non traditional counties.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/06/2017 13:49:07
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In every county in Ireland football championships are run off in tiered systems - junior, intermediate and senior. Clubs go up and down each year. The semi finals and finals are all played at around the same time. It's very simple. Dublin would be a senior team and say leitrim would be a junior team. Leitrim at the moment would never ever beat Dublin. They cannot compete with a team like that. Clubs all around the country will win junior and intermediate championships this year and will celebrate them and it will be huge for them. It can be the same for inter county but it will just take time and needs to be set up properly.
jj72 (Kildare) - Posts: 53 - 26/06/2017 14:19:55
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Replying To Whammo86: "You know that there is kind of a 2 tier championship already where teams have an opportunity of reentering the championship that year.
It's called the qualifiers. If teams win their games they get back into the All Ireland quarterfinals.
Any team that would have ambitions of winning a B championship should have similar aspirations of making an All Ireland quarterfinal.
To me that's immensely more prestigious than winning a B championship.
Just because there's a trophy with a bow on it doesn't mean that it's got prestige. A B championship is not an All Ireland title. It's a your the 17th best team merit award.
The likes of Antrim who have only played 2 games this year would still only play 2 games. Sligo v Antrim is the sort of game you'd play in a first round of a B championship. I don't see where there's an improvement on the current system.
Those giving out about the Provincial championships not working also confuse me. Dublin v Carlow, Dublin v Westmeath, Dublin v Kildare are similar to the sort of games that there'd be in rounds 1, 2 and 3 of an open draw All Ireland.
I think there could be tweaks made to the qualifiers where Connacht and Munster teams have to win more than 1 game to get to the qualifiers round 4. Roscommon skipping 3 rounds of qualifiers by beating Leitrim is much more of a joke than Dublin or Kerry getting to the quarterfinals by winning their provinces.
I also think the league should be played in parallel to the championship. Other than that I don't see what tiering the championship adds to anything." Like you said before - having 6 losers from Muns/Conn Finals and Lein/Uls SFs entering at the Qual Rd 3 stage makes the structure fairer.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2593 - 26/06/2017 14:23:37
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Replying To Whammo86: "They beat Offaly. Now they'll go on to play Armagh. A team around their level. If they win that they'll get another game against the likes of a Monaghan, Wexford, Cavan, Tipp, Carlow. All games they'd fancy winning. They then play a qualifier round 4 against Down or Kildare most likely. Again those are the sorts of games Kildare should aim to be winning.
There's actually loads of opportunities for teams to play games at their own level with the current structures.
The only way to stop teams getting hammered by Dublin is to give Dublin a bye to the semifinals. So I don't see why people go so nuts when a team gets hammered by the them.
It's also not a waste of time. 33k people were prepared to go along to that game yesterday. A band would need to sell out the 3 arena 3 times to get that sort of crowd.
I think anyone calling for Provincial championships to be removed are pretty short sighted. 33k or so people attending a game is not to be sniffed at. You'd never get close to that going to a B championship game. Those sorts of things matter for sponsors, whatever Westmeath get now it'd only decrease if they weren't playing in the Leinster championship.
Young Westmeath fans going to that game were probably not impressed by their own team yesterday. They may have been inspired by how good Dublin were though. Maybe Westmeath's next Dessie Dolan was there and picked something up from Dublin's forward play which will stick with him.
I'd be worried about the elitist road some would advocate. If we went that way years ago we may never have seen the likes of Conor McManus, Mattie Forde or Declan Browne emerge from non traditional counties." Reducing the Front Door to 2 AI QF berths (following Prov Champs Playoff Rd) and increasing the Back Door to 6 berths brings greater equity as well, while preserving the Prov lopsided tradition.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2593 - 26/06/2017 14:27:02
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Replying To s goldrick: "yes. it is called the LEAGUE.
The championship is supposed to be a knockout competition where it's the luck of the draw and you can be pitted against anyone. The problem with the championship is the provincial system. It should be a straight open-draw knockout. why is that so hard to do. ?" Yeah, I know.
Sorry, I was directing my comment at the hoards of people who regurgitate the same old rubbish that we "need a competition where teams of similar standards play each other", or words to that effect, whilst seemingly ignoring the fact that WE ALREADY BLOODY DO!!
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 26/06/2017 14:28:36
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ADMINISTRATOR : this is supposed to be a family friendly board, why are you letting words like SHITE and BULLSHIT etc through in posts?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 26/06/2017 14:34:33
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Replying To perfect10: "ADMINISTRATOR : this is supposed to be a family friendly board, why are you letting words like SHITE and BULLSHIT etc through in posts?" Now c'mon Mary Whitehouse, not exactly the end of the world, is it?
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 26/06/2017 14:57:12
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Replying To perfect10: "ADMINISTRATOR : this is supposed to be a family friendly board, why are you letting words like SHITE and BULLSHIT etc through in posts?" Because they are words that are used by every family in Ireland, and especially so when GAA matters are discussed!
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 26/06/2017 15:58:08
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House rules: These message boards are intended to be used for Gaelic Games related discussions and are aimed to be family friendly. Any bad language or abusive comments will see messages deleted, as will any attempts to post offensive or defamatory contributions
my children read this board,if bad language is to be tolerated,then the board should ask for consent before opening the pages.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 26/06/2017 16:03:54
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Replying To Onion Breath: "Because they are words that are used by every family in Ireland, and especially so when GAA matters are discussed!" THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER! YES!
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 26/06/2017 16:05:02
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in hurling we have a tier system to help so called weaker counties some thing maybe small to aim for
then when they move up to top tier they play in round robin of leinster ( like kerry , meath did) because that gives them meanfull games we would not dare put them playing in there province (kerry) becauce they might get hammered (for a better word)
I come on hs and i see meath and kerry poster talking about christy cup wins. i don see anything about a match between kilkenny and longford or louth (no disprect) or do not want to imagine the score there.
in football we have less teams with realistic chances of winning an all ireland. but nothing about helping these other counties have meaningfull games or something to aim for.
a provincial title is a massive aim for some teams, but that is not even realistic for some
madbull (Westmeath) - Posts: 195 - 26/06/2017 17:36:57
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "A simple solution is a champions league style format using the league for seeding.
8 groups of 4 teams, top two teams play for the allireland and the bottom 2 teams play in the B tournament .
Everyone gets a shot at the big prize and if you get knocked out you still have something meaningful to play for." That's the best solution for the gaa along with sinbinning players for cynical play instead of the black card but that won't happen because the gaa is run by people who wouldn't know the best idea if it slapped them in the face. Of course bigger counties would be for it until they hit a lull and end up in the b championship
Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 660 - 26/06/2017 18:23:50
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The real problem is the Leinster championship. It is a 2 horse race, the rest are "combine harvesters chasing ferari's". Ulster is great and Connacht and Munster have few teams with minor swings up and down. The solution might be to have 2 divisions compete for each cup.
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 26/06/2017 19:13:18
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Replying To perfect10: "House rules: These message boards are intended to be used for Gaelic Games related discussions and are aimed to be family friendly. Any bad language or abusive comments will see messages deleted, as will any attempts to post offensive or defamatory contributions
my children read this board,if bad language is to be tolerated,then the board should ask for consent before opening the pages." If your kids are over the age of about 9 (at a push) I think they've already heard it a million times before pal. Well, unless you've kept them locked in a cupboard anyway!
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 26/06/2017 20:10:31
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Replying To perfect10: "the provincial championships still work?no they dont.2 of the provinces are done deals before a ball is kicked,another one is 1 of 2 teams,only 1 province still works.
to those opponents of a 2 tier championship,do you only have senior football in your county,or do you think that maybe winning a junior title to a smaller club with a small population means just as much to them as winning a senior title means to others?
i would hazard a guess that a b title would mean a lot to half of the counties in the country,i am sure it would give counties like leitrim,wicklow,carlow,etc a tangible target and a competition they have a realistic chance of winning.
personally,i think the provincial championships have to go,play 8 groups of 4 teams,top 2 in each group go into the a champ,bottom 2 in each go into the b champ,you might need a provisional round draw to play new york or london,but sure who wouldnt love that junket?" As many teams as won the connacht championship as the ulster over the last 10 years. As the Tommy murphy proved counties don't have any heed on a budget championship. If the dubs hammer kildare in the leinster final I am sure the supporters of a 2 tier championship will use that as evidence to back there idea ignoring the fact that kildare are a tier one. Logic is not a strong point for the likes of brolly et all.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2017 20:10:49
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Replying To monaghan90: "People claiming the tiered system works in hurling and ladies football are kidding themselves.
Hurling has very low support in counties who are not competing in the top competition and I cannot think of any counties who have improved from playing teams at 'their own level'
While in ladies football having a three tier championship did absolutely nothing to curb the sheer dominance of cork for over ten year" You make some excellent points
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2017 20:17:40
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Replying To jj72: "In every county in Ireland football championships are run off in tiered systems - junior, intermediate and senior. Clubs go up and down each year. The semi finals and finals are all played at around the same time. It's very simple. Dublin would be a senior team and say leitrim would be a junior team. Leitrim at the moment would never ever beat Dublin. They cannot compete with a team like that. Clubs all around the country will win junior and intermediate championships this year and will celebrate them and it will be huge for them. It can be the same for inter county but it will just take time and needs to be set up properly." So no problems with the All-Ireland Junior and Intermediate series at the moment at club and inter-county level?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 26/06/2017 20:20:38
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Weaker teams don't improve either by getting hammered by the top teams. At least when they're playing teams at their own level they do not suffer humiliation and there's a better chance they'll retain the enthusiasm for the game to keep trying to improve." There is always be hammerings no matter what tiers are introduced didn't tipperary a second tier team hammer Galway a first tier county last year
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2017 20:22:34
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Replying To perfect10: "House rules: These message boards are intended to be used for Gaelic Games related discussions and are aimed to be family friendly. Any bad language or abusive comments will see messages deleted, as will any attempts to post offensive or defamatory contributions
my children read this board,if bad language is to be tolerated,then the board should ask for consent before opening the pages." The will hear alot worst if the go to a match
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2017 20:27:42
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Replying To Jonnycee: "Coming from a weaker County I firmly believe that a B or division 2 championship will be the end of gaelic football in weaker counties and counties that come with a team once a decade. It is demeaning to players. Every player who trains, plays and dreams deserves to complete for Sam McGuire. If a young lad see his County playing in a lesser competition they will look to play another sport. Gaelic football is already under serious pressure from other sports to retain young players and this is a big issue in weaker counties. The gaa itself should look too level the playing field. Increasing funding to weaker counties plus coach education, where the best coaches in football run course where that can aid coaches in weaker counties to build the right infrastructures so that they can better develop player skills and fund County gyms and programs that will improve player conditioning. Too long croke Park has sat idol and let the gap grow. The gaa was not created to be an elitists society. It was created to promote our games equally and in the last 15 years they have failed on this. People calling for this b championship are looking for the quick fix, the quick fix is rearly the right fix. Honestly I struggle to see this being resolved in the near to middle future." The problem is much bigger and more complex than A or/and B championships. It's a problem that will not be solved without tackling the issues arising from demographic movement in Ireland. This not the Ireland of 1884 but we continue to turn a blind eye to the changes as if they had no impact on the GAA, and how we structure our games and competitions. Yes we moan about the demise of country clubs and the way funding is shared out but we still adhere to the structures set up more than a hundred years ago and wonder they are problematic in today's Ireland.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 26/06/2017 20:37:26
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