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Replying To HurlingSnob: "There are only two ways to get rid of the blanket defence and both of them are unlikely:
1. Ban all Ulster teams from competing in the all ireland
2. Build a time machine that will bring you back to 1997." It's amazing how people actually believe stuff like this and how blasé they are about it.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 31/05/2017 14:24:45
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "But you've highlighted the problem.
People go to matches out of loyalty and increasingly thats the main reason for a lot of people going and not enjoyment." Do you think more carlow people would go to the dublin game if they had a realistic chance of winning,no matter how bad a game they expected?
achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 562 - 31/05/2017 14:30:27
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Replying To Breffni39: "It's amazing how people actually believe stuff like this and how blasé they are about it." You say that you enjoy the game now and for everyone complaining about it to leave you to it. I say that the likes of you have taken a brilliant sport and ruined it. In the 90s it was a close second to hurling in my opinion. Now I'd rank golf, rugby and soccer ahead of it in terms of enjoyment.
HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 31/05/2017 15:00:08
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Replying To HurlingSnob: "You say that you enjoy the game now and for everyone complaining about it to leave you to it. I say that the likes of you have taken a brilliant sport and ruined it. In the 90s it was a close second to hurling in my opinion. Now I'd rank golf, rugby and soccer ahead of it in terms of enjoyment." I don't care where you'd rank it
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 31/05/2017 15:15:51
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Replying To HurlingSnob: "There are only two ways to get rid of the blanket defence and both of them are unlikely:
1. Ban all Ulster teams from competing in the all ireland
2. Build a time machine that will bring you back to 1997." Give over
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 31/05/2017 15:24:27
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Early round Championship attendances going down has more to do with our outdated structures than with "the totally and utter death of the game".
If falling attendances had anything to do with tactics then why are League attendances going up?
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 31/05/2017 15:26:34
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "Championship attendances are down on where tehy were in the 00's.Attendances have falled in 9 of the last 10 years.See link below or maybe you shoudl ignore this and pretend eveyrthing is OK and that attendances being down isn't a big issue.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1020/825530-gaa/" Can you provide me with ticket prices in the intervening years? Wages have only increased by (roughly) 5% since the 80s yet i'd imagine ticket prices have increased dramatically since then. Add in the other things that come with match day and I think you might find that to be the reason. It's 50 quid for a couple to go to a game under the stand. Was it that in 2000?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 31/05/2017 15:40:55
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You say that you enjoy the game now and for everyone complaining about it to leave you to it. I say that the likes of you have taken a brilliant sport and ruined it. In the 90s it was a close second to hurling in my opinion. Now I'd rank golf, rugby and soccer ahead of it in terms of enjoyment.
HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts:35 - 31/05/2017 15:00:08
Cool.
It'd be great if all the doom merchants would actually stop watching and giving out about the game.
Maybe the game would flourish even more than it already does without the constant negativity it currently receives.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 31/05/2017 15:44:07
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Replying To HurlingSnob: "You say that you enjoy the game now and for everyone complaining about it to leave you to it. I say that the likes of you have taken a brilliant sport and ruined it. In the 90s it was a close second to hurling in my opinion. Now I'd rank golf, rugby and soccer ahead of it in terms of enjoyment." You're easily amused if you rank golf ahead of Gaelic football in terms of enjoyment?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 31/05/2017 16:05:27
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Replying To Lockjaw: "My suggestion is for managers and coaches not to be such lazy bastards and use their initiative and innovation to come up with something new. Tactics evolve and so should the coaching accordingly. The trouble with the GAA is that far too many people just try to copy the latest thing, be it weights programs, nutrition, blanket defence etc.
If you listen to proper, modern tacticians like Horan, Gavin and McGuinness they don't spend all their time bleating like Brolly, Spillane - they actually try to explain the nuances of the tactics involved. McGuinness' column in the Irish Times is a very good indicator of this. He explains things in great detail." Great post, the lack of ideas from managers and coaches in mind boggling. Surely there are ways of beating the blanket defence and render it redundant. I would love to see some team place 3 big men in the full forward line and try to kick over the blanket. It might not work but nobody even tries it.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 31/05/2017 16:38:09
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Replying To gotmilk: "Can you provide me with ticket prices in the intervening years? Wages have only increased by (roughly) 5% since the 80s yet i'd imagine ticket prices have increased dramatically since then. Add in the other things that come with match day and I think you might find that to be the reason. It's 50 quid for a couple to go to a game under the stand. Was it that in 2000?" A lot more games being shown on TV also. There's less of a need to actually be there.
There's probably a multitude of reasons why attendances are down. To be fair the negative tactics probably have contributed but as Mrs Amis has said skill levels are at an all time high.
Scores are up despite more men being funnelled back.
I like the 2 point suggestion is the best one I've heard. It would force defences to push up more. Long range points are a way to beat the blanket, it's just right now it's not the percentage play.
Some of the problem too is that we maybe expect a bit too much of our teams. Derry aren't particularly good at all, Tyrone are nowhere near the team of 10 years ago. I really think they're the most overrated team in the country right now. When was the last time they beat one of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo in championship? They got bigged up last year by blowing away division 2 and sneaking a poor enough Ulster title in what was their first final appearance in years.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4235 - 31/05/2017 16:42:47
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The big rule change would be scrapping the black card and replacing it with a 10 minute sin bin. Then get all the refs to consistently enforce the rules. You would suddenly see the game improve no end.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 31/05/2017 17:03:13
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Averge points per game from 1996 and 2016:
1996 Ulster Championship: 26.3
2016 Ulster Championship: 33.4
1996 Munster Championship: 30.6
2016 Munster Championship: 38.0
1996 Leinster Championship:30.9
2016 Leinster Championship:35.7
1996 Connacht Championship:29.2
2016 Connacht Championship:34.3
The average winning margin is slightly up and down depending on which province you're looking at but the total average scores were quite a bit higher in 2016 as you can see. This despite football being so open in the 90's compared to ultra defensive systems we see applied today......
I'm not going to say that modern day football is a better game to watch than it was in the 90's because it's probably not but I think there's no doubt that football is played at a higher level now than before. Skill levels are much higher now to the extent that almost any player on the team is capable of taking a score. Teams used to be heavily reliant on 2 or 3 players to get their bulk of their scores and although teams still rely on their main men to step up the days of getting 1-5 etc. from play in big games are gone. Teams now need to have around 8 different scorers to win a match. Fitness and condtioning levels have also increased and the game has also evolved tactically and while there is a heavy emphasis on defence there is also an equal emphasis put on to retaining possession and not giving the ball away cheaply. This is also a factor which leads to situations where a team could have possession of the ball for well over a minute without really making any real progress but they're trained to be patient and won't give in to cries of the crowd "to kick the fu**ing thing in". Although it's still an amateur sport it is treated professionally by the modern day managers and players. That is the reason the chances of a shock result has become almost impossible as the top teams are so well drilled and know exactly their role. Dublin are the best example of this as they have system and process they stick to and you often hear their players talk about this. If Dean Rock has a bad day at the office it doesn't effect them, if Connolly picks up a black card.. its doesn't effect them. The next man will pick up the slack. They just stick to the process.
The game in the 90's was a simpler game. There were some brillant games and there were also plenty of poor ones but defending wasn't a priorty and neither was retaining the ball. This meant there were alot of individual battles all over the field which don't really exist anymore. If a key player didn't show up on the day it was curtains for the team involved because there was probably no plan/system in place to fall back on. No rule changes will ever bring back the game from the 90's as too much work goes on behind the scenes by management looking for new ideas to try and gain an advantage.
I can see why people prefer the game from 20 years ago but I personally think it's important to move on with the times and embrace the modern game. Last year's Ulster final was a horrible game of football but that doesn't mean that I'm not excited about the upcoming ulster semi final between the same 2 teams. It may not be like the 90's in terms of individual match ups but I'm curious about who for Donegal is going to pick up Peter Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly etc and I'm sure Tyrone supporters are wondering which Tyrone player will be assigned to deal with Ryan McHugh and Murphy etc. I think the bigger issue is the growing gap between the top 6-8 teams to the rest more so than blanket defenses. All the top teams know how to set up defensively but they all can attack as well. Just look back at this years league. Theres wasn't too much talk of getting rid of blanket defenses then because each divison was competive and we were treated to some very good games of football as well as some poor ones but in whole it was an exciting league campaign.
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 31/05/2017 17:20:25
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Replying To MesAmis: "You say that you enjoy the game now and for everyone complaining about it to leave you to it. I say that the likes of you have taken a brilliant sport and ruined it. In the 90s it was a close second to hurling in my opinion. Now I'd rank golf, rugby and soccer ahead of it in terms of enjoyment.
HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts:35 - 31/05/2017 15:00:08
Cool.
It'd be great if all the doom merchants would actually stop watching and giving out about the game.
Maybe the game would flourish even more than it already does without the constant negativity it currently receives." So it would be good for the game if less people watched it?
Thats quite an odd point of view you'd have to admit.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 31/05/2017 20:32:30
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People using scoring averages to justify the game is better are missing the point.
Scoring is up because players are more skilful however the problem with the game is the lack of contests in the game which bring excitement.
Attacking now involves an endless stream of hand passes over and over again until a gap opens up.This is unbelievably tedious to watch and that is the problem.
We now rarely have a contest in open play and most kick outs now are kicked short so we don't even get a contest at the kickout.
When teams go out and play attacking football the game is fine but 90% of teams don't and we are stuck watching boring defensive rubbish for most of the year.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 31/05/2017 20:36:18
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "People using scoring averages to justify the game is better are missing the point.
Scoring is up because players are more skilful however the problem with the game is the lack of contests in the game which bring excitement.
Attacking now involves an endless stream of hand passes over and over again until a gap opens up.This is unbelievably tedious to watch and that is the problem.
We now rarely have a contest in open play and most kick outs now are kicked short so we don't even get a contest at the kickout.
When teams go out and play attacking football the game is fine but 90% of teams don't and we are stuck watching boring defensive rubbish for most of the year." No contest in open play? Are you joking?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 31/05/2017 22:54:22
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those complaining about the state of football should feast their eyes on this.
1930s
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 01/06/2017 00:00:44
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Replying To gotmilk: "No contest in open play? Are you joking?" The vast majority of passes now are short handpasses and almost always they are to a free man which produces very little contest as they are very easily gathered by the team who are passing the ball.There are very few 50/50 balls anymore which may be sensible but is not really that exciting and I don't think that's what the game is supposed to be about.
Sport is supposed to be a form of entertainment.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 01/06/2017 00:12:11
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "The vast majority of passes now are short handpasses and almost always they are to a free man which produces very little contest as they are very easily gathered by the team who are passing the ball.There are very few 50/50 balls anymore which may be sensible but is not really that exciting and I don't think that's what the game is supposed to be about.
Sport is supposed to be a form of entertainment." What is sensible or enjoyable about watching someone hoof a ball up between two players? I don't know about you but I'd much rather watch a player like McCaffery, McHugh or Keegan take the ball on the run and pierce through the middle of a defence and bury it to the net after a well worked move. What is enjoyable about watching someone launch a ball down the field to the opposition who then launches it back down to the boy who kicked it in the first place?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 01/06/2017 10:10:13
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Replying To gotmilk: "What is sensible or enjoyable about watching someone hoof a ball up between two players? I don't know about you but I'd much rather watch a player like McCaffery, McHugh or Keegan take the ball on the run and pierce through the middle of a defence and bury it to the net after a well worked move. What is enjoyable about watching someone launch a ball down the field to the opposition who then launches it back down to the boy who kicked it in the first place?" The contest for posession is enjoyable.It's what makes the game more entertaining.Continuous 5 and 10 yard handpasses although sensible is not enjoyable to watch.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 01/06/2017 11:05:08
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