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Replying To cavanman47: "Neither played 14 behind the ball.
You're right about the rest but the ref did give some questionable frees so the freecount was a bit higher than it should've been." In stages both team went defensive. Even on TV this was obvious.
I have nothing against it. In fact I love the counter attack play.
Its the biasness that it is only an Ulster thing that is annoying.
In saying that when both team won the ball playing defensive they used the kick pass out of defense. This greatly speeds up the attack.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 10/04/2017 09:32:06
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Replying To hill16no1man: "No your correct it was as clear as day a throw from keeper.
don't agree red was good I already pointed out plenty decisions he called badly but the black card for lyne on Connolly should have been a red as itvwas a high tackle around the back not black.
also couple minutes before half time I doubt camera picked it up but cian o Sullivan was pulled to the ground by geaney I think it was trying to get forward and linesman didn't intervene.
just like at the goal post James McCarthy was struck by donnacha Walsh with umpire two feet away and refused to inform ref of what he saw, league Sunday were poor in not showing these incidents when talking about officiating" Regarding Donnchadh Walsh striking James McCarthy it was a reaction from Walsh after he was clearly struck first fair, play to Walsh for not hitting the deck. Walsh responded alright but would you you preferred if he hit the floor and got McCarthy sent off?
Unfortunately the second punch in the second half from McCarthy did send Walsh to the ground but im sure he tried his best to stay on his feet.
KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 10/04/2017 09:36:47
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Replying To Sindar: "You're right. A striking offence is a red card no matter where or when it happens. I don't think he could have seen the Philly McMahon two. The others mentioned in this thread I didn't see except for McCarthy and Walsh right beside the umpire. Ref should have seen that as that's where the ball was.
Incidentally, and I only saw a very short replay of this, the Connolly black was incorrect. From what I saw, Connolly pulled him back by the jersey but not pull him to the ground and the rule uses the "collid". It might be pedantic but rules are worded very carefully to cover their stuff. The linesman brought this to the ref's attention so he should have been sure before doing so.
Separately, I don't really agree when people in say in general the ref was good as he let the game flow. I'm not referring to any specific game. Players let the game flow by not committing fouls If refs start letting fouls go then that annoys players and leads them to lash out and then the red cards are needed when it's too late." Too often these days its like referees want to be the main people on the field. They want to be seen on the TV.
Today the ref wasn't like that. He called frees when necessary without being too picky and generally was invisible which should be the case.
The refs job is very important but its the players who are the Heroes of the story not the referees.
I think that is why people are happy with the ref.
Overall I don't think it was a dirty game. If players got the reds people are talking about I think then people would be complaining they were soft.
This ref is definately one of the better ones Ive seen so far this year. I would like to see him handle a fiery encounter though. That's where a referees true worth is.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 10/04/2017 09:39:32
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In my opinion Don't Think Dean Rock contributes enough from open play , Dublin cannot afford to carry him for his free taking alone, Keeping Paul Mannion on the bench? Even Scully or O Callaghan? When the pressure comes on Rock he is always found wanting. Jim Gavin will gain so much from yesterdays defeat going into championship, cant see past Dublin for Sam, they were a little off the pace yesterday and still within a point of drawing the game.
Tox73 (Wexford) - Posts: 169 - 10/04/2017 09:51:25
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Replying To KY4SAM2015: "Regarding Donnchadh Walsh striking James McCarthy it was a reaction from Walsh after he was clearly struck first fair, play to Walsh for not hitting the deck. Walsh responded alright but would you you preferred if he hit the floor and got McCarthy sent off?
Unfortunately the second punch in the second half from McCarthy did send Walsh to the ground but im sure he tried his best to stay on his feet." I saw him drop like a bag of spuds and having a look for the officials - I'm not condoning what the dub player did but Walsh is always hauling and dragging players when they are attacking and it's a pity because he's a better player than that.
IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 10/04/2017 09:51:37
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What a great game of football, really impressive stuff from Kerry yesterday. Man of the match, no doubt about it was Eamon Fitzmaurice. He has done his homework and Kerry are reaping the benefits. They won much more ball off their own kickout than they have in previous encounters with Dublin. I even spotted a Dublin-esque move from the kickout by Kerry. They were ready for the Ciaran Kilkenny switch to half back where Michael Geaney (I think) came from his own half forward line to collect a kick out where Kerry's backs and midfield had dropped deep creating the space in behind them. It was straight out of the Dublin hand book, beautifully executed.
Kerry were excellent with the ball in hand in the 3rd quarter while Dublin were very sloppy. I see a few Dublin posters taking pot shots at Brogan and Rock today but the ball into them in the second half was dreadful. Lowndes, McMahon, Flynn, Mannion and Kilkenny were all guilty of coughing up possession by playing poor passes into the full forward line. McMahon in particular wasted quite a bit of ball and gave away a lot of soft frees down the other end.
But credit to Kerry, they've learned a lot from Dublin and it showed in how they set up against them. Moran started to tick especially in the second half as Reddin seemed to lose influence (he was having an excellent game by the end of the first half). Barry has matched up really well against Fenton over the two times they've met while Kerry's defence has really improved with the youth and pace that Fitzmaurice has injected there. The difference with Kerry now is the pace they have in the half backs and half forwards, they can really cut teams open. Make no mistake, they are Dublin's biggest threat this year, I'd even be tempted to have a punt on them with whatever odds you'd get today.
As for some who were saying that this game meant nothing to Kerry, HA!! The Kerry fans in attendance were as rabid as they were at the semi final last year while the players celebrated like they had won something very significant with a lot of hugs and jumping up and down at the final whistle.
That loss won't do Dublin any harm though. It's a nice bit of a reality check after quite a few games where they've rescued results when they've been hanging on. They've got that unbeaten record off their back, they might play with a bit more abandon now then they have done.
Roll on the championship
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/04/2017 09:52:10
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Thank God he didn't throw on Donaghy. He's like having another Dublin defender as he almost always hands it straight back to Dublin. He's not mobile enough for the new style of play Kerry have to play to compete with Dublin. Same for Bryan Sheehan and Anthony Maher. They've been moved aside to allow more athletic players who can move and cover space.
Kerry have finally realised, its only taken them 14 years since Tyrone beat them in 2003, to realise that 2 high fielding statues in the middle of the park is not going to work when its all about breaking ball now. Kerry are still lacking there - I don't have the stats but I reckon Dublin won 70% of the breaks from kickouts yesterday. If Kerry are to beat Dublin in August/September, they need:
1. To maintain the mobility of players. - No more Donaghy, Maher, Sheehan
2. Find someone who can hoover up breaks, even if they do nothing else primary possession is key.
kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 10/04/2017 09:57:51
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Replying To cluichethar: "Why the Kerry player didn't punch it into the net I'll never know" He could have headed it in.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 10/04/2017 10:25:06
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Replying To IrishGael3: "I saw him drop like a bag of spuds and having a look for the officials - I'm not condoning what the dub player did but Walsh is always hauling and dragging players when they are attacking and it's a pity because he's a better player than that." He did fall to the ground for the second strike as i have already mentioned but he didnt on the first incident, which was what I was responding to in my post, so you are wrong im afraid.
KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 10/04/2017 10:35:09
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Replying To cluichethar: "Best referee I've seen in quite some time I thought he done a great job He let the game flow & only stepped in where he had to" It is not the referee's job to "let the game flow". There is no onus on the referee to ensure it is a good or enjoyable game. It is the referee's job to apply the rules . There is not a referee in the country that applies the rules throughout a game. The ref yesterday made loads of mistakes (deliberate or otherwise). This happens week-in week-out up and down the country. Fair play to both teams yesterday for the quality of the game.
I thought David Moran was a colossus as usual. Mick Fitzsimons also great. The Geaneys , savage and Barry also. Morley had a good game too. McMahon was good for Dublin as was Fenton, McCarthy (although he had his hands full with Walsh). Cluxton very good also. For me Kilkenny is the man that makes Dublin tick though and again he was very good. Is Connolly becoming a liability, It would be a shame for such a gifted player but if he doesn't improve his discipline he could be marginalised. The likes of Scully,McHugh,Costello,Reddan etc are all top class players and perhaps Dublin don't need him any more.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 10/04/2017 10:38:15
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Replying To hill16no1man: "No your correct it was as clear as day a throw from keeper.
don't agree red was good I already pointed out plenty decisions he called badly but the black card for lyne on Connolly should have been a red as itvwas a high tackle around the back not black.
also couple minutes before half time I doubt camera picked it up but cian o Sullivan was pulled to the ground by geaney I think it was trying to get forward and linesman didn't intervene.
just like at the goal post James McCarthy was struck by donnacha Walsh with umpire two feet away and refused to inform ref of what he saw, league Sunday were poor in not showing these incidents when talking about officiating" umpire was actually looking the other way .
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 10/04/2017 11:10:44
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Connolly must drive Dub fans nuts. At times yesterday he was sublime and you could see that him being on the pitch gave Kerry an extra headache. In all fairness to Niall Scully, he's not going to pose the same questions and you could see the difference in Dublin's forward play without Connolly on the field. If he's going to keep on reacting the way he does to challenges then he's not going to be getting much game time.
But look, I don't want this thread to fall into the usual trap of people moaning about referee calls, cards that could have been given etc. Yesterday was a great game of football, do we have to do the forensic breakdown of each game and not just enjoy it for what it was. There were some exceptional scores yesterday, a tactical masterclass from Fitzmaurice, some new and exciting talent just made a big statement too, lets talk about the good things in yesterdays game.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/04/2017 11:25:29
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It turned into a great game of ball and another great advertisement for our sports at this time of year
Credit to all teams involved across the leagues this year
Cracking games
Congrats to all the league champion's 2017
It's the best format out there at present IMO - It's the most competitive and we see teams of a similar standard square off, week in, week out
That's what brings a level playing field and that's what drives competition
Now it's time for the FA cup mismatches ;)
The real stuff starts from 1/4 finals.
But again, the leagues continue to grow and have given our sports a far greater reach from Jan-April
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/04/2017 11:28:52
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Replying To keithlemon: "Connolly must drive Dub fans nuts. At times yesterday he was sublime and you could see that him being on the pitch gave Kerry an extra headache. In all fairness to Niall Scully, he's not going to pose the same questions and you could see the difference in Dublin's forward play without Connolly on the field. If he's going to keep on reacting the way he does to challenges then he's not going to be getting much game time.
But look, I don't want this thread to fall into the usual trap of people moaning about referee calls, cards that could have been given etc. Yesterday was a great game of football, do we have to do the forensic breakdown of each game and not just enjoy it for what it was. There were some exceptional scores yesterday, a tactical masterclass from Fitzmaurice, some new and exciting talent just made a big statement too, lets talk about the good things in yesterdays game." Great post KM
You are 100% spot in all of that
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/04/2017 11:42:52
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I do think Dublin need to be very wary of their defence. What was quite alarming for them was Cian O'Sullivan looking well off the pace. He found himself dragged all over the field and didn't look comfortable. He didn't seem to command the line in front of the full back line as well as we've seen him do previously. Philly McMahon was back conceding soft frees, he didn't have the worst game but at times his distribution was very poor. Fitzsimons continues to improve and did really well on Geaney until the second half when Kerry started finding space and making the Dublin full back line very nervous.
I know they have Cooper, Small and McCaffrey to come back in but that's not the first time this season we've seen teams who play a running game pour through their lines. Monaghan especially last week but I thought Tyrone were the first to really put it up to Dublin in the running aspect. Tyrone weren't as lethal as they needed to be but the signs were there.
That's the first time Dublin have conceded 20 scores under Gavin, it gives them a lot to work on for the summer
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/04/2017 11:52:38
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Replying To keithlemon: "I do think Dublin need to be very wary of their defence. What was quite alarming for them was Cian O'Sullivan looking well off the pace. He found himself dragged all over the field and didn't look comfortable. He didn't seem to command the line in front of the full back line as well as we've seen him do previously. Philly McMahon was back conceding soft frees, he didn't have the worst game but at times his distribution was very poor. Fitzsimons continues to improve and did really well on Geaney until the second half when Kerry started finding space and making the Dublin full back line very nervous.
I know they have Cooper, Small and McCaffrey to come back in but that's not the first time this season we've seen teams who play a running game pour through their lines. Monaghan especially last week but I thought Tyrone were the first to really put it up to Dublin in the running aspect. Tyrone weren't as lethal as they needed to be but the signs were there.
That's the first time Dublin have conceded 20 scores under Gavin, it gives them a lot to work on for the summer" Keith
Dublin are weeks behind other teams in terms of sharpness and matych fitness
COS hasn't played much ball
Dublin working very hard at training at the minute
It was an excellent result reach another final, and to finish top with such a clear margin
Even with Kerry's win yesterday, they'd only be on 10 points... compared to our 11 ;)
Dublin are nowhere near full fitness, many players seeing little game time, many of us before a ball was kicked couldn't see Dublin win the title this year
You'll see a very different beast soon enough
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/04/2017 11:59:18
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Anybody see Cians instastory with Damien Dempsey last night. The lads having a ball. Fenton taking his first loss in league & champo as a starter well too. Hope they had a deserved blow out!!
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 10/04/2017 12:04:54
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Replying To jimbodub: "Keith
Dublin are weeks behind other teams in terms of sharpness and matych fitness
COS hasn't played much ball
Dublin working very hard at training at the minute
It was an excellent result reach another final, and to finish top with such a clear margin
Even with Kerry's win yesterday, they'd only be on 10 points... compared to our 11 ;)
Dublin are nowhere near full fitness, many players seeing little game time, many of us before a ball was kicked couldn't see Dublin win the title this year
You'll see a very different beast soon enough" Fair enough jimbo, it remains to be seen as you say.
I just think it's not that easy to just switch it on when it's needed even if lads aren't 100% yet
Credit has to go to Fitzmaurice for giving Dublin those headaches though, people have been trying to figure out a way for a long time to get O'Sullivan out of his comfort zone and we saw yesterday how problematic that can be for Dublin by Michael Geaney's display.
Like you say though, Dublin could be a different beast come championship time, getting their momentum to peak at the right time is all important.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/04/2017 12:12:59
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Replying To keithlemon: "Fair enough jimbo, it remains to be seen as you say.
I just think it's not that easy to just switch it on when it's needed even if lads aren't 100% yet
Credit has to go to Fitzmaurice for giving Dublin those headaches though, people have been trying to figure out a way for a long time to get O'Sullivan out of his comfort zone and we saw yesterday how problematic that can be for Dublin by Michael Geaney's display.
Like you say though, Dublin could be a different beast come championship time, getting their momentum to peak at the right time is all important." It's not easy to switch on when you're weeks behind fitness wise and played very little
EF deserves credit no doubt about it, but he always did, he's always caused Dublin huge problems.
But we still caused him plenty of headaches ourselves and on another day, things could have panned out different.
But we didn't deserve it anyway. Kerry did.
Dublin's unbeaten run to the final shouldn't have been anyway, could have easily lost a number of games
We were weeks behind many teams, it clearly showed at times.
The whole idea was to rest players, bring them back in slowly, we will have a far strong panel at full fitness coming up soon.
Yet we were only a point away and had an excellent league campaign.
Lot of positives to be taken from a deserved loss.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/04/2017 12:30:07
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Replying To jimbodub: "It's not easy to switch on when you're weeks behind fitness wise and played very little
EF deserves credit no doubt about it, but he always did, he's always caused Dublin huge problems.
But we still caused him plenty of headaches ourselves and on another day, things could have panned out different.
But we didn't deserve it anyway. Kerry did.
Dublin's unbeaten run to the final shouldn't have been anyway, could have easily lost a number of games
We were weeks behind many teams, it clearly showed at times.
The whole idea was to rest players, bring them back in slowly, we will have a far strong panel at full fitness coming up soon.
Yet we were only a point away and had an excellent league campaign.
Lot of positives to be taken from a deserved loss." Summed up nicely jimbo
Roll on the quarter finals
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/04/2017 13:01:10
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