Meath Forum

Meath v Dublin

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Replying To brian:  "you've got to love these doom and gloom merchants saying how we're going to be beaten, we'll no get within ten points etc etc..

Right so geniuses, tell us something we don't already known.. most of us are realistic enough to know we're on a hiding to nothing but we're not stating the obvious to a blind man and expecting him to be amazed..

We've a match against the reigning all Ireland and leinster champions. lets talk about that eh.. how can we look to win?? What could MOD do to try and set up the team to win?? What can he do differently from the Louth game? is there any players he could introduce or be available that you'd change from the 15 v louth.. otherwise we might as well not turn up on the day of the match and fulfill the fixture

This defeatist lose by 10 - 15 points, won't keep the ball kicked out etc should be something people can get banned and reported for"
It's not defeatist it is just stating the obvious, we are light years behind Dublin I'm afraid to say and if you can't see that then you need to go to specsavers. Who on that Meath team would get into the Dublin team?, perhaps Keoghan, the best of the rest would struggle to make the bench?.

AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 147 - 15/06/2016 16:23:28    1867297

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Replying To seadog54:  "Meath have never played at the level they will experience in Croke Park, the only way to prepare for these games is by playing in division one year in year out. This will give the players some insight into what will be expected on the day. I expect Meath to be competitive and put up a decent show but we are currently playing at a much lower level."
Getting up to Division 1 and staying there really has to be our main aim, it's the only way we're going to start challenging and beating the top teams again during the championship.

I just checked some stats there and they don't make for great reading, Meath has played 13 games so far this year (O'Byrne, League and Leinster), won 7, drew 2 and lost 4. But here's the thing, all the teams we've beaten this year have finished below us in the league, the best we've managed against a team that finished above us is a draw against Galway. I've included UCD (who beat us in the O'Byrne Cup) as a team that finished higher than us on the basis of them winning the Sigerson.

We've beaten = Laois twice, Louth twice, Carlow, Longford and Armagh, all of which will be playing their football in Div3 or lower next year. Now to add Dublin to that list will take something truly extraordinary.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 15/06/2016 16:31:31    1867305

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Replying To brian:  "you've got to love these doom and gloom merchants saying how we're going to be beaten, we'll no get within ten points etc etc..

Right so geniuses, tell us something we don't already known.. most of us are realistic enough to know we're on a hiding to nothing but we're not stating the obvious to a blind man and expecting him to be amazed..

We've a match against the reigning all Ireland and leinster champions. lets talk about that eh.. how can we look to win?? What could MOD do to try and set up the team to win?? What can he do differently from the Louth game? is there any players he could introduce or be available that you'd change from the 15 v louth.. otherwise we might as well not turn up on the day of the match and fulfill the fixture

This defeatist lose by 10 - 15 points, won't keep the ball kicked out etc should be something people can get banned and reported for"
Relax brian, come on lad, I don't think looking to ban or report people for expressing their opinions here is the way to go.

Now of you want to talk about how we can win or what will MOD do etc. I presume he's going to try and get lads back in numbers and hit Dublin on the counter attack, he'll probably play a target man or 2 in the FF line, perhaps Newman and Tormey alternating and then have a fast lad or 2 playing off them, probably Wallace and McMahon. Speaking of which, I would replace McDonagh with McMahon, I think he's better infront of goal.

Possession from kickouts it also vitally important and POR was looking for short options the last day so he'll probably do the same against Dublin and we'll try to work the ball up the field. If the options aren't there then he'll boom one down to Rooney.

I don't think it'll anything over complicated, and if MOD has a master plan up his sleave then we won't find out what it is until the 26th

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 15/06/2016 16:59:22    1867313

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Replying To Htaem:  "Getting up to Division 1 and staying there really has to be our main aim, it's the only way we're going to start challenging and beating the top teams again during the championship.

I just checked some stats there and they don't make for great reading, Meath has played 13 games so far this year (O'Byrne, League and Leinster), won 7, drew 2 and lost 4. But here's the thing, all the teams we've beaten this year have finished below us in the league, the best we've managed against a team that finished above us is a draw against Galway. I've included UCD (who beat us in the O'Byrne Cup) as a team that finished higher than us on the basis of them winning the Sigerson.

We've beaten = Laois twice, Louth twice, Carlow, Longford and Armagh, all of which will be playing their football in Div3 or lower next year. Now to add Dublin to that list will take something truly extraordinary."
Its a fair point.We need to get to dv1,sadly we just stayed in dv2.Think we should have done better in the league.Whoever the manager is next year we should be seriously looking to get to dv1.We are as good(and better than most) of the teams in dv2 next year.,

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 15/06/2016 17:00:37    1867315

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Replying To Htaem:  "Getting up to Division 1 and staying there really has to be our main aim, it's the only way we're going to start challenging and beating the top teams again during the championship.

I just checked some stats there and they don't make for great reading, Meath has played 13 games so far this year (O'Byrne, League and Leinster), won 7, drew 2 and lost 4. But here's the thing, all the teams we've beaten this year have finished below us in the league, the best we've managed against a team that finished above us is a draw against Galway. I've included UCD (who beat us in the O'Byrne Cup) as a team that finished higher than us on the basis of them winning the Sigerson.

We've beaten = Laois twice, Louth twice, Carlow, Longford and Armagh, all of which will be playing their football in Div3 or lower next year. Now to add Dublin to that list will take something truly extraordinary."
There may well be a lot of truth in what you say about getting to division 1 and playing at that standard ...but look at Munster rugby and leinster when they were playing in a very weak pro 12 division they were kicking butt in the old Heineken cup every year...so the English and french rugby clubs decided to move the goal post and only let the top six pro 12 teams enter the new rugby cup..so every game became more competitive and higher intensity and you nearly always now have to put your best 15 out on any pro 12 and because of this Munster and leinster and the rest of the pro 12 have suffered badly at European level...Why ?

They say the reason why Manchester united under Alex Ferguson did not win that many champions league cups because of the English premiership was so hard to win...were as the Spanish league and the German league was less competitive for the top clubs so they could go full bet in the champions league !

Playing a better standard of football is not always a good thing! The great Kerry teams played very poor teams and still won all Irelands ..the only reason why Dublin is good because Leinster is bad and they don't have to peak early!

The most competitive province is ulster..and i guarantee no ulster team is going to win all Ireland this year or next year or the year after that and yet ulster has the most division 1 teams!

Maybe we let this Dublin team become more than just men in our heads!

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 879 - 15/06/2016 18:03:18    1867334

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Micko our fine young manager will set up like he did v Tyrone last year in omagh when our fine young team where unlucky to lose. He did not use this plan v Westmeath or since as he did not want the dubs to be forewarned.

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 15/06/2016 18:19:44    1867341

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Replying To Brownepat:  "Micko our fine young manager will set up like he did v Tyrone last year in omagh when our fine young team where unlucky to lose. He did not use this plan v Westmeath or since as he did not want the dubs to be forewarned."
Ya I see a similar setup.Sadly we don't have Menton and Croke Park is a bigger pitch than Omagh.Win,lose or draw,we just want to see progressing.If we lose,we need a good run in the qualifiers.
Dublin will be ready though for this kind of set up..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 15/06/2016 18:36:57    1867347

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Replying To ziggy32001:  "Ya I see a similar setup.Sadly we don't have Menton and Croke Park is a bigger pitch than Omagh.Win,lose or draw,we just want to see progressing.If we lose,we need a good run in the qualifiers.
Dublin will be ready though for this kind of set up.."
We don't have mento but I think our half back line is better than last year. Harnan is in his best position at 6.

Full back line is a worry. I don't want to see keoghan trying to cover everything - he needs to trust his corner backs and they need to deliver.

Mickey Burke will be targeted.

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 15/06/2016 20:13:36    1867395

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Lads I'm enjoying the banter today

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 15/06/2016 20:14:07    1867396

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Replying To Brownepat:  "Micko our fine young manager will set up like he did v Tyrone last year in omagh when our fine young team where unlucky to lose. He did not use this plan v Westmeath or since as he did not want the dubs to be forewarned."
You are either taking the pee or on it , I'm not sure which yet.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 15/06/2016 20:24:32    1867406

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I'd love to see Rooney upend McCauley in the throw in, I never got over the time Whelan done it to Crawford.

Uncle_Fester (Meath) - Posts: 217 - 15/06/2016 21:02:10    1867423

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Replying To royaldunne:  "You are either taking the pee or on it , I'm not sure which yet."
Brownepat is harmless RD..

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 879 - 15/06/2016 21:09:33    1867427

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Replying To Uncle_Fester:  "I'd love to see Rooney upend McCauley in the throw in, I never got over the time Whelan done it to Crawford."
Ha! Shake him like a rag doll

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 15/06/2016 21:14:52    1867429

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "There may well be a lot of truth in what you say about getting to division 1 and playing at that standard ...but look at Munster rugby and leinster when they were playing in a very weak pro 12 division they were kicking butt in the old Heineken cup every year...so the English and french rugby clubs decided to move the goal post and only let the top six pro 12 teams enter the new rugby cup..so every game became more competitive and higher intensity and you nearly always now have to put your best 15 out on any pro 12 and because of this Munster and leinster and the rest of the pro 12 have suffered badly at European level...Why ?

They say the reason why Manchester united under Alex Ferguson did not win that many champions league cups because of the English premiership was so hard to win...were as the Spanish league and the German league was less competitive for the top clubs so they could go full bet in the champions league !

Playing a better standard of football is not always a good thing! The great Kerry teams played very poor teams and still won all Irelands ..the only reason why Dublin is good because Leinster is bad and they don't have to peak early!

The most competitive province is ulster..and i guarantee no ulster team is going to win all Ireland this year or next year or the year after that and yet ulster has the most division 1 teams!

Maybe we let this Dublin team become more than just men in our heads!"
To be fair WhyTheLongFace, Leinster and Munster both had excellent teams in the previous decade, they were essentially international teams at club level and it was the money in French and English rugby that really turned the screw. Although they did indeed move the goalposts to make European qualification easier for their own clubs.

As for Man U, to be honest I think the reason they didn't win more Champions Leagues under Fergie wasn't because of how difficult the EPL is/was, I think it's because of how over-rated the EPL is. Now it is/was still one of the world's best leagues but they have a marketing machine behind them which works tirelessly to convince people that it's miles ahead of the rest, which it isn't.

Anyway back to Gaa land, since the Gaa reverted the League back to 4 straight divisions in 2008 (as opposed the 1A & 1B and 2A & 2B), every All-Ireland champion has come from Division 1, with only 3 division 2 teams qualifying for the AI final, all of which were promoted to div1 in the same year but went on the lose the final, No AI finalists from div3 or div4.

The provincials are a little more open but with the same obvious trend, since 2008, 23 div1 teams won their provincials, 7 div2 teams and 2 div3 teams, no div4 team won their provincial.

The league is an excellent indication of what you can expect over the summer and to be challenging for top honours you really have to be in division 1 and playing the best teams from the start of the year. I think we in Meath (myself included) had quite a dismissive attitude towards the league over the years but thankfully I think that's changed now, or at least it is changing and we're trying harder to improve our status.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 15/06/2016 22:03:23    1867448

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Replying To bert09:  "We don't have mento but I think our half back line is better than last year. Harnan is in his best position at 6.

Full back line is a worry. I don't want to see keoghan trying to cover everything - he needs to trust his corner backs and they need to deliver.

Mickey Burke will be targeted."
Tobin would be a big loss if not fit enough

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 15/06/2016 22:09:15    1867450

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Replying To bert09:  "We don't have mento but I think our half back line is better than last year. Harnan is in his best position at 6.

Full back line is a worry. I don't want to see keoghan trying to cover everything - he needs to trust his corner backs and they need to deliver.

Mickey Burke will be targeted."
Harnan played on the wing v Louth Tobin played at 6 Burke was full back on Grimes and Keogan was in the corner but all 4 played really well in fact Louth really only came into it came into it when Tobin went off by running down his channel when he was gone

runnerin (Meath) - Posts: 202 - 15/06/2016 22:14:36    1867452

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Replying To ziggy32001:  "Tobin would be a big loss if not fit enough"
He certainly would be a big loss ziggy, he's one of our better players, is there any update on him?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 15/06/2016 22:21:17    1867455

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Replying To Htaem:  "To be fair WhyTheLongFace, Leinster and Munster both had excellent teams in the previous decade, they were essentially international teams at club level and it was the money in French and English rugby that really turned the screw. Although they did indeed move the goalposts to make European qualification easier for their own clubs.

As for Man U, to be honest I think the reason they didn't win more Champions Leagues under Fergie wasn't because of how difficult the EPL is/was, I think it's because of how over-rated the EPL is. Now it is/was still one of the world's best leagues but they have a marketing machine behind them which works tirelessly to convince people that it's miles ahead of the rest, which it isn't.

Anyway back to Gaa land, since the Gaa reverted the League back to 4 straight divisions in 2008 (as opposed the 1A & 1B and 2A & 2B), every All-Ireland champion has come from Division 1, with only 3 division 2 teams qualifying for the AI final, all of which were promoted to div1 in the same year but went on the lose the final, No AI finalists from div3 or div4.

The provincials are a little more open but with the same obvious trend, since 2008, 23 div1 teams won their provincials, 7 div2 teams and 2 div3 teams, no div4 team won their provincial.

The league is an excellent indication of what you can expect over the summer and to be challenging for top honours you really have to be in division 1 and playing the best teams from the start of the year. I think we in Meath (myself included) had quite a dismissive attitude towards the league over the years but thankfully I think that's changed now, or at least it is changing and we're trying harder to improve our status."
I do believe Htaem that Meath would improve greatly if we were playing Division 1 football without question ..But Mayo are the most consistent Division 1 team but there relationships with all Ireland days hasn't been exactly Brokeback Mountain !

But again you my be right ..maybe media and soccer pundits have pushed the EPL agenda as the greatest league in the world ...but look at our own Gaa pundits with there after match analysis "it was a division 1 team playing a Division 3 team Micheal thats why they lost" every game ! I wouldn't mind but the division 3 may have only lost by a point..then gaa pundits tells us its the shrewdness and the quick thinking and the intensity of playing in division 1 won them the game...but if a division 3 team beats a division 1 team nowadays its call "over achieved "

Maybe there is truth in it...but maybe players nowadays from division 2 or 3 when they cross that white line they have that already in there head as excuse why they lost !

Look i don't know..

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 879 - 15/06/2016 23:58:06    1867477

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "I do believe Htaem that Meath would improve greatly if we were playing Division 1 football without question ..But Mayo are the most consistent Division 1 team but there relationships with all Ireland days hasn't been exactly Brokeback Mountain !

But again you my be right ..maybe media and soccer pundits have pushed the EPL agenda as the greatest league in the world ...but look at our own Gaa pundits with there after match analysis "it was a division 1 team playing a Division 3 team Micheal thats why they lost" every game ! I wouldn't mind but the division 3 may have only lost by a point..then gaa pundits tells us its the shrewdness and the quick thinking and the intensity of playing in division 1 won them the game...but if a division 3 team beats a division 1 team nowadays its call "over achieved "

Maybe there is truth in it...but maybe players nowadays from division 2 or 3 when they cross that white line they have that already in there head as excuse why they lost !

Look i don't know.."
Thats a poor example..

Mayo have won louds of Connacht titles,been getting to at least All-Ireland semis.They also drew with Dublin in the champ last year.

Now we haven't even got by the last 16 stage in the last four years..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 16/06/2016 08:40:27    1867510

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Replying To Htaem:  "He certainly would be a big loss ziggy, he's one of our better players, is there any update on him?"
Sadly no idea,nothing mentioned in this weeks Chronicle either.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 16/06/2016 08:41:14    1867511

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