Was there a players meeting last weekend?

And did the management sit down with the county board?

Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 22/07/2014 14:10:55    1623986

Don't have short memories at all. This style is hard watched when we are winning but its unbearable when you loose. Our defeats to Tyrone and Roscommon in Croker, I thought we played okay in both days, missed a lot of chances in Croker. But the championship defeats were awful to watch. We didn't even have chances to miss. 2 men inside the 45. That's okay if they happen to be Murphy and McFadden, but we have nobody of that calibre. I think next year will tell us how good this Cavan panel really are or arn't and how the defensive tactics shape up against better opposition in division 2.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 22/07/2014 14:23:49    1624020

The meeting was not on removing the management, Terry Hyland has a contract until 2016, more an emphasis on attacking play. Peter Donnelly has a big say on the defensive system Cavan play, maybe a forwards coach could be brought in

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 22/07/2014 14:44:07    1624057

cavan97
Don't have short memories at all. This style is hard watched when we are winning but its unbearable when you loose. Our defeats to Tyrone and Roscommon in Croker, I thought we played okay in both days, missed a lot of chances in Croker. But the championship defeats were awful to watch. We didn't even have chances to miss. 2 men inside the 45. That's okay if they happen to be Murphy and McFadden, but we have nobody of that calibre. I think next year will tell us how good this Cavan panel really are or arn't and how the defensive tactics shape up against better opposition in division 2.

But sure only two years ago the county was in disarray and we were very nearly a Division 4 team. We escaped by the skin of our teeth. Now we've achieved Division 2 promotion and a McKenna Cup final and people are complaining. We got to an All Ireland quarter final last year. We had years of having three championship games and last year we had seven!

We've little to complain about given the turnaround in fortunes. Yes, the championship didn't go well but we were missing a huge amount of players. Take 7 or 8 players out of any team, even Dublin, and they are going to struggle. And we weren't just missing players, we were missing our game changers.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 22/07/2014 16:51:30    1624243

Its time for terry to step down. He's done a great job in all the jobs hes had u21s, juniors & seniors but it seems to me that hes brought the seniors as far as he can. After winning 4 u21's and now playing div 2 football there would be no shortage of takers for the job and i think now is the time to bring in somebody with a proven record at bringing on these young players and transferring there u21 form into senior.

Breffni81 (Cavan) - Posts: 181 - 22/07/2014 17:00:50    1624257

Brought the team as far as he can?. This is only his second full year in charge, unless you want to be pedantic and include the 2012 championship where a lot of young players were blooded.
He deserves to get the chance to manage in Divison 2 and I'm sure he will, any team would struggle with the amount of players Cavan were missing bar Dublin. Next year will probaly see a more attacking side to it,the team will evolve.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 22/07/2014 17:16:57    1624274

Exactly FoolsGold. Any manager concentrates on making a team hard to beat and then refines their style. Rome isn't built in a day and Cavan can't go from near Division 4 to suddenly having huge expectations. Hyland has restored pride in the jersey and that was a big factor. For too long the county team was a joke and the players treated it as such. Now we've lad fighting hard to get onto the panel and get their place.

Let's not forget the season isn't over for the juniors yet either.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 22/07/2014 17:38:35    1624293

There should be no question about it Cavan, needs a new management set-up come next year. This excuse of getting promoted to Div2 isn't good enough, I was at all the league games and to be honest each one I went to, I was hoping that our style of play would change, I knew it was building up to a disaster , but no attempt was made to twig the system, even if they had tried to do something about it id say fair enough, lucky the opposition in div 3 was very poor bar Roscommon, then came the league final, the line out baffled me the changes that was made were crazy, bring one of our best defenders on to play midfield when we have two good midfielders sitting on the bench and our backs were getting roasted, come championship the downward spiral continued but the style of play was getting worst, getting even more defensive, then came the Roscommon game when all the questions were answered, that we need a new management set-up,, one that will give all the new players a chance to prove themselves and get rid of what seems to me to be the managers preferences/favorites. We have the quality players in the county we just need a new approach.

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 308 - 22/07/2014 20:53:51    1624493

If the approach didn't change after the Kerry game last year when we were beaten inside 20 minutes, then it never will. Too defensive that day, and 12 months on it got even more defensive. So I don't know what makes people think next year we'll be any different.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 22/07/2014 21:03:44    1624502

Ned_Stormcrow
County: Cavan
Posts: 455

1624502 If the approach didn't change after the Kerry game last year when we were beaten inside 20 minutes, then it never will. Too defensive that day, and 12 months on it got even more defensive. So I don't know what makes people think next year we'll be any different.

And I dont know why you were expecting to win Ulster with 5/6 key players carrying injures, or injured, and others away. They way they set up against Kerry wasn't a surprise, considering Kerry have one of the best footballers who ever played the game. Alright in hindsight saying Cavan should have went at it from the start like they did in the second half, the game was effectively over at that stage.

Divison 3 football was a dogged dogfight, look at the Longford , Sligo games , as examples they were playing with 2 sweepers very hard to play fluid football against that system

As did Armagh.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 22/07/2014 21:32:42    1624531

If terry had the players believing they were going somewhere Clarke & mc veetey wouldn't have jumped ship to the u.s.a, the fact is they knew they were going no where this year so they headed off.

Breffni81 (Cavan) - Posts: 181 - 22/07/2014 21:58:47    1624565

But sure only two years ago the county was in disarray and we were very nearly a Division 4 team. We escaped by the skin of our teeth. Now we've achieved Division 2 promotion and a McKenna Cup final and people are complaining. We got to an All Ireland quarter final last year. We had years of having three championship games and last year we had seven!

We've little to complain about given the turnaround in fortunes. Yes, the championship didn't go well but we were missing a huge amount of players. Take 7 or 8 players out of any team, even Dublin, and they are going to struggle. And we weren't just missing players, we were missing our game changers

2 years ago we had disarray in the camp and this had been going on for years, that's why we nearly got to division 4. Last years division 3 teams were a lot lot tougher than this year. This team always had the potential of division 2, sure even Keogan had us there and the panel wasn't disciplined. As for having 7 championship games, tell me who did we really beat? Derry, and why? we actually played open football. It was as good a Cavan performance as you will ever see and no defensive tactics.

We have a lot to complain about when you don't score for 28 minutes in a championship match against a division 3 team. These tactics will ruin genuine creative footballers. Missing 7 or 8 first team players? Mackey and the 2 Dunnes were all we were really missing, 2 had left the panel, anyone else was replaceable. Sure how many were missing in croker when the Rossies didn't play the under 21's. How many were missing in the Athletic grounds? you can come up with excuses all day long. And to talk about game changers, the only man to break a tackle and go forward is Mackey, but he is just going to be taken out every time in division 2 if we play this way. You need to take off the blinkers here and realise that we have players that 1. will not hang around if being told not to shoot and loose possession and 2. will leave if all they are doing is training like Paul O'Connor and Enda Reilly. How disheartening it must be for them to see half backs coming on in a game when your being beaten well on the scoreboard.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 23/07/2014 09:22:43    1624595

FoolsGold
County: Cavan
Posts: 911

And I dont know why you were expecting to win Ulster with 5/6 key players carrying injures, or injured, and others away. They way they set up against Kerry wasn't a surprise, considering Kerry have one of the best footballers who ever played the game. Alright in hindsight saying Cavan should have went at it from the start like they did in the second half, the game was effectively over at that stage.

Divison 3 football was a dogged dogfight, look at the Longford , Sligo games , as examples they were playing with 2 sweepers very hard to play fluid football against that system

As did Armagh.

Never did I say I expected to win Ulster. I thought it was a possibility considering the progress we had made. What benefit does setting up defensively actually achieve? I mean Kerry 2013, and this year Armagh and Roscommon hardly broke sweat to beat us. Do you know of any team who have played this style before and actually achieved something? And don't say Donegal, we are nothing like Donegal.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 23/07/2014 09:35:25    1624601

Foolsgold, your constant support of the management is admirable, but what is giving you confidence that they will get us to where we need / want to be? With the talent we are producing, from successful U21's, to exceptional ( albeit badly managed ) minors, and right back to the current Gerry O'Reilly U16 finalists, we are entitled to strive for an evolution to top class, i.e. winning All Irelands at all grades within an acceptable timeframe. That's what we should be aiming for. We are producing the right type of players and our development should reflect that ambition.

As far as I can see, we are at best, stalled at our current level. We plugged our leaky defence which absolutely had to be done. Credit to them for that. The next stage, which all developing counties with aspirations have done ( Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo, Ross, Kildare, Kerry and Cork ), i.e. to add an effective attacking game to our successful defence, doesn't seem to have even crossed our management's minds. You don't see many teams now carrying the ball as far as the opposition half back line and moving it immediately back to protect it like we do. Most other teams are encouraging, and training, their players to take on a man, or two, and create a workable overlap. This is what creates openings for goals, and it's goals that win championships.

Under McHugh, we had players like Mickey Graham, Jason Reilly, Peter and Larry, Fintan Cahill, who were all encouraged to run at the opposition and develop attacks that created goals. I'm sure their goal tally will bear that out. Under the current management philosophy, what would happen to those type of players? Well, if they wanted to continue playing for Cavan, they would have to protect the ball, not carry it into contact, not score goals, and we would never have appreciated how good of players they actually were. Do we know how good our current players are? Have we ever seen them at their best? Why has a speed merchant and natural ball carrier like Niall Smith not prospered under the current Management? Will he, and players like him, ever be allowed to reach their full potential with Cavan under current management?

And apart from the style of play, Foolsgold, what standards will you set for decision making. How will you measure the current management team on their ability to spot and fix? Just look at how they handed over the Ross game at half time, when there was plenty of fight in the team to go and chase a victory? We did Armagh a favour because we highlighted to them what not to do against Ross. And having made one very poor decision, they proceeded to ignore it and started to throw bodies on in non-problem areas in a " we have to do something, anything " panic mindset.

This is what I most object to about this management team. Under the heat of match day pressure, they don't seem to be able to spot and fix. In what game have they made a decision that turned an inevitable defeat into a victory? Possibly introducing Michael Argue against Derry last year, but that's a good while ago now.

Call it as it is. We are stalled. Our development and aspirations to be a serious football force again are stalled. And in my opinion, this management team demonstrated after the Kerry game last year, that they are not capable of learning from experience. Therefore, I conclude that we will stay stalled until we come under new leadership. I don't expect this to happen soon, because they appear to enjoy the absolute support of the County Board. And it's not that I begrudge them that support because they have certainly brought us on from where we were. It's just that I don't see them getting us to the next level and I hope we don't go backwards in the meantime.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 460 - 23/07/2014 14:55:54    1624821

what teams would we be capable of beating at the moment. (assuming we don't change our style).
Roscommon..No, Galway..No, Laois..No, Down..No, Meath..No, Westmeath...maybe, Kildare..No,

these are all div 2 teams next year. the future is bleak.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/07/2014 16:32:41    1624880

FoolsGold
County: Cavan
Posts: 911

1624274
Brought the team as far as he can?. This is only his second full year in charge, unless you want to be pedantic and include the 2012 championship where a lot of young players were blooded.
He deserves to get the chance to manage in Divison 2 and I'm sure he will, any team would struggle with the amount of players Cavan were missing bar Dublin. Next year will probaly see a more attacking side to it,the team will evolve.

Remember 2 of those missing decided to go to the states mid season. Yes we can argue that they young and entitled to go but remember when Seanie Johnston left to go to America in the Keogan era he was slated left right and centre by supporters everywhere in the county. And he waited till we were out of Ulster. These 2 seemed to go with the surporters blessing.. Maybe they saw the bigger picture and knew we were going nowhere.
As ONDFORTY has said in a previous post we seem to have stalled under this management and they dont seem to have they necessary spot and fix during games. That statement is totaly correct in fact the whole post is spot on and i challange any poster here to pick holes in that ONDFORTY post. Best post written here for a long time

dirtybag (Cavan) - Posts: 242 - 23/07/2014 17:53:10    1624928

Setting up defensively gives a platform something to build on. Cavan have been playing Division 3 since 08 maybe earlier, the goal was achieved this year - might not have been pretty but its done. Derry played nice open football in Divison 1 this year like all Division 1 teams did, but when it came to the championship they were found wanting, as they came up against a defensively minded team in Donegal and couldn't deal with it, longford followed the same tactic and beat them in Celtic Park. Cavan dont just go from playing like Donegal to Dublin all of a sudden. The first year of the u21 run 2010 the u21s didn't play defensively and couldn't deal with the Donegal tactics in the final. They since learned from that at u21 and now Senior since 2012.
I believe next year will see a more attacking philosophy, in the 3rd year of the development but it seems to be the attitude in Cavan fanso to get rid of the management asap. Hopeully next year with every one fit and 'available they will give a good account of themselves. Cian Mackey was close to an All Star last,year a huge loss in the championship, played through painkillers against Armagh

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 23/07/2014 19:59:30    1625011

Ondforty -- that post was outstanding - sums it up perfectly

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 308 - 23/07/2014 20:07:23    1625018

We overachievd last year in the championship which put greater expection on the support. We have good u21 teams no doubt but haven't won an All ireland and haven't come close to winning one. Dublin should have won by a lot more this year, call it as it is. Galway have yet to achive anything with their u21 teams and have actually just avoided Divison 3 football for the past 2 years.

2012, and 2011 Cavan avoided Divison 4 football. Have some patience. We are not that bad.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 23/07/2014 20:41:05    1625033

Ondforty

That's a good post and it identifies the main problems very well.
Martin McHugh had an attacking philosophy and he transformed a team that was beaten out the gate in 94 by Monaghan into a team that reached the Ulster Final the following year, beating the same Monaghan team on the way. They were in Div 3 at the time and 2 years later they were in Division 1 and at one stage or another they beat every top team in the country. Then he left and he was slated all over the place for all the short passing that he trained into the team. What followed was a catastrophe that won't be forgotten for a long time. I would hate to see something similar happen again just when we have the nucleus of a decent team emerging. So we need to be careful how we go about changing the philosophy otherwise we'll have serious problems in the camp. We need a coach who is attack-minded. Even then it will take a while to change the system - these things can't be done overnight. The present coach definitely transformed our defensive system which was a serious problem even in the U-21 final of 2010 as has been pointed out above. I'm not sure if he can do any more because there is no improvement in midfield and our attack is dreadful. It's up to the manager to address this issue with the present coach. I gather we'll have a new County Board this autumn as well and that's bound to bring new ideas and attitudes to the table. For that reason I think we should tread carefully. Most supporters know well what needs to be done - it's how we go about it that will determine the future of this panel and there is a lot of talent in the panel if it's given a chance to develop.

RoyalBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 23/07/2014 20:41:19    1625034