Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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Replying To oceanofnoise:  "Having also been in attendance, I would agree entirely with this summary.
Meath played a style of football that was effective 10-15 years ago, but doesn't work anymore. If you don't have some form of a half forward line in-situ, then no amount of turnover ball will be worth anything to the team, as there is no outlet in position up the field for a quick transition.

Meath's attacking play was too ponderous, and to me this was the one very clear difference between the teams. When Dublin were faced with Meath's "low block", they continuously attempted to move the ball FORWARD at speed (mostly with the hand), and also always looked to change the angle of attack, with multiple options for the player passing the ball.

On the other hand, Meath's attacking players were not operating in these pods of 2's & 3's going forward. As a result, there was no penetration because the ball was just being passed around along the 45, in front of the Dublin screen. Any decent team, such as the Dubs, will just gobble this type of play up as it is really, really easy to defend.

As I say, to me, this was the main difference between the two teams. I don't agree with the opinion of other posters that Meath were lacking in terms of S&C nor general "fitness".

The nucleus of a good team is emerging, and with some better coaching, they can continue to progress."
100% Agree we don't move the ball quick enough we give the opposition time to set up and then we end up either coughing up position or shooting from where teams are happy to let you shoot .
We only scored 2 goals In the league and never got a sniff of one yesterday I wouldn't count the 3 against Longford they are a div 4 team so the speed we are coached to move the ball forward has to be questioned .

mmc (Meath) - Posts: 268 - 15/04/2024 12:38:22    2538006

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Replying To mmc:  "100% Agree we don't move the ball quick enough we give the opposition time to set up and then we end up either coughing up position or shooting from where teams are happy to let you shoot .
We only scored 2 goals In the league and never got a sniff of one yesterday I wouldn't count the 3 against Longford they are a div 4 team so the speed we are coached to move the ball forward has to be questioned ."
Jack O'Connor made two clear enough goal chances. He didn't strike the ball cleanly for one and the other he should have got a return pass from Morris early in the second half but Morris took the point. I would go as far as to say a goal was on when Ronan Jones broke through on around 50 mins and he had a man on the back post, but Jones stood up and tried to strike the ball off the outside of his left foot for a point and mishit it completely. O'Connor showed the recipe for how to create goals so he has to be a starter moving forward. Lots of good work done yesterday across the team but decision making needs to be better. I'd be of the opinion that once it gets passed 6 points the margin of victory is kind of irrelevant. They have to be able to dust themselves off and take the positives from how they played. Ross Ryan I thought was very good!

meathfan1 (Meath) - Posts: 229 - 15/04/2024 13:03:39    2538031

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Replying To seadog54:  "Think it was alway's about getting this one over and done with. Still a dissapoint scoreline nonetheless. Our season depends on how we react to today's defeat. First half showed signs of promise but that goal took the wind out of our sail's and once Dublin got on top there was no way back. Turned over an amount of ball in second half, be it poor kickouts or running into blind alley's. Of course a lot will depend on draw and after today difficult to be optimistic, however, as you said we have a number of weeks to prepare for what lie's ahead."
Yes its all about what lies ahead with a number of weeks to prepare. How we prepare is critical .To me the next training sessions should be structured around what we did well and also what we need to do better. If not why train? We did show we need much quicker attack when O Connor came on ..It seemed he was not to concerned about who we were playing..no fear ! More of that please with Costello attacking at speed also . Two men with great potential using direct attacking approach. ....We have to remember Dublin are a GREAT team. no question. They had their years in the doldrums just like ourselves. Their vision and leadership set the bar much higher for all..They are reaping the rewards and more power to them. Its a business like approach that is necessary to be competitive nowadays. Our top table could do the same. Its only business skills after all. Leave the technical stuff to the football men. Review....identify training needs...install training and monitor ... inform on best practise
We are working on reaching our full potential full stop. Lets see where that leaves us.
I thought there were some promising signs Morris had a good shift after his absence. O Neill well able to handle himself on Dublins home ground.Nice to see a young full back without fear against Dublin in Croke Park. Caulfield similar and shows promise. For me to see these lads playing without fear thats positive and a very good sign that deserves the best support and development thats required.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 15/04/2024 13:04:54    2538033

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Lads, lets be honest, the dubs never left third gear.

Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 93 - 15/04/2024 13:12:45    2538039

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I'm torn, on one hand yes we do need big action by County Board to get us back to top tier. On the other I think some of the criticism of Leinster Champonship this week is over the top. Sean Cavanagh saying we were never competitive yesterday and that Dublin should be moved to a different provincial championship. On the RTE GAA podcast they said a best of team of the other eleven Leinster counties couldn't give Dublin a game. I mean, we're a long way off but not that long.

MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 39 - 15/04/2024 13:51:26    2538066

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Would there have been 2000 Meath fans at croke park yesterday ?

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 879 - 15/04/2024 14:34:38    2538089

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The Two things that stood out to me yesterday was that we were very naive with some of the ball into the forwards and the unforced errors we coughed up. You would have to mark this down to inexperience and highlights that next year we have got to make a serious stab at getting Div 1 football for the following year.
I know we played ok in the first half but Dublin still had 8+ wides that they wouldn't normally miss in a month of Sundays.

Secondly the dubs conditioning was phenomenal. Even in the first half when we turned it over they were able to break at pace and our lads simply could not keep up over distance.

It does help though when all your senior clubs are training to an equal standard as to what our county team are.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 632 - 15/04/2024 15:02:50    2538103

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "Would there have been 2000 Meath fans at croke park yesterday ?"
Unfortunately its a hard sell now. Drive up to Dublin and by tickets for the family for what was going to be a hammering and the match on the telly anyway. People wouldn't have the money anymore particularly if Meath are still in the Championship anyway.

On a separate note the Dubs look in some condition. It looked like amateurs v Pros. Reminded me of the time Ireland played the compromised rules back in the 80's and the ozzies were so much better conditioned.

Rickoshay (Meath) - Posts: 10 - 15/04/2024 15:33:52    2538120

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Replying To nobull456:  "Yes its all about what lies ahead with a number of weeks to prepare. How we prepare is critical .To me the next training sessions should be structured around what we did well and also what we need to do better. If not why train? We did show we need much quicker attack when O Connor came on ..It seemed he was not to concerned about who we were playing..no fear ! More of that please with Costello attacking at speed also . Two men with great potential using direct attacking approach. ....We have to remember Dublin are a GREAT team. no question. They had their years in the doldrums just like ourselves. Their vision and leadership set the bar much higher for all..They are reaping the rewards and more power to them. Its a business like approach that is necessary to be competitive nowadays. Our top table could do the same. Its only business skills after all. Leave the technical stuff to the football men. Review....identify training needs...install training and monitor ... inform on best practise
We are working on reaching our full potential full stop. Lets see where that leaves us.
I thought there were some promising signs Morris had a good shift after his absence. O Neill well able to handle himself on Dublins home ground.Nice to see a young full back without fear against Dublin in Croke Park. Caulfield similar and shows promise. For me to see these lads playing without fear thats positive and a very good sign that deserves the best support and development thats required."
I don't know I thought o Neill was only okay, we said Higgins had his best game for Meath but he was marking Paul mannion did he not get man of the match and score 1-3 from play?

Our half back line was the best line for Meath on the day!

Unitedroyal (Meath) - Posts: 7 - 15/04/2024 15:34:53    2538122

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "The Two things that stood out to me yesterday was that we were very naive with some of the ball into the forwards and the unforced errors we coughed up. You would have to mark this down to inexperience and highlights that next year we have got to make a serious stab at getting Div 1 football for the following year.
I know we played ok in the first half but Dublin still had 8+ wides that they wouldn't normally miss in a month of Sundays.

Secondly the dubs conditioning was phenomenal. Even in the first half when we turned it over they were able to break at pace and our lads simply could not keep up over distance.

It does help though when all your senior clubs are training to an equal standard as to what our county team are."
The club level certainly widens their player pool. But in regarding their S&C it's because they have a full time head of S&C who they took away from Leinster rugby and who manages their pathway from when they're under 14 to when they're senior. We finally get this place and now it's gone not even 2 years later. This role is so important and we need to make sure it's filled by somebody of high calibre

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1471 - 15/04/2024 15:45:46    2538125

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "The Two things that stood out to me yesterday was that we were very naive with some of the ball into the forwards and the unforced errors we coughed up. You would have to mark this down to inexperience and highlights that next year we have got to make a serious stab at getting Div 1 football for the following year.
I know we played ok in the first half but Dublin still had 8+ wides that they wouldn't normally miss in a month of Sundays.

Secondly the dubs conditioning was phenomenal. Even in the first half when we turned it over they were able to break at pace and our lads simply could not keep up over distance.

It does help though when all your senior clubs are training to an equal standard as to what our county team are."
Dublins conditioning and physicality is at professional standard and its difficult to see Meath reaching that level anytime soon, if ever. As you say the are training against lad's who are as strong and fit as themselve's, playing in a competitive club championship and play league games against best of the rest, add in some of the best players to ever play the game, not to even mention financial resources and we are aiming at a very high bar. To have any chance, division one is a must and will be a priotity next year. Getting there is not beyond them but could present panel survive there. Hopefully we get a positive response in A/I series, which will tell a lot about this group, management included. Not all negative, some of the younger backs looked to have promise and not overawed by occassion.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2152 - 15/04/2024 16:22:21    2538134

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "The club level certainly widens their player pool. But in regarding their S&C it's because they have a full time head of S&C who they took away from Leinster rugby and who manages their pathway from when they're under 14 to when they're senior. We finally get this place and now it's gone not even 2 years later. This role is so important and we need to make sure it's filled by somebody of high calibre"
Yes agree. I know a few of the lads and in terms of bulking and strength they always did a bit with the club but not of any county standard until they were brought onto the development panel for the seniors. Id work with a few lads involved with the limerick hurlers and they would have lads doing the leaving cert who are absolutely shredded(monsters to use their terms) but have been collectively working as a larger group from minor on pure conditioning.

In fairness to O Rourke that's and issue he has inherited that should be solved by the board but lets be honest if things are tipping along nicely for them they don't care.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 632 - 15/04/2024 16:23:28    2538135

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listening to Moyes this morning on Newstalk , basically saying that our S&C is nowhere near Dublin's and talking about the regional championship and what a joke it is . Also said Meath were beaten before the game , the same stuff we were listening to 8 years ago , when will it ever change!

meath1987 (Meath) - Posts: 127 - 15/04/2024 16:34:33    2538139

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Replying To meath1987:  "listening to Moyes this morning on Newstalk , basically saying that our S&C is nowhere near Dublin's and talking about the regional championship and what a joke it is . Also said Meath were beaten before the game , the same stuff we were listening to 8 years ago , when will it ever change!"
Brian Farrell was very good on Second Captains the other day (Friday). He said he's working with a Dublin club and it's depressing to see thr difference in level compared to Meath clubs. I'm not involved in club scene. Is the difference purely down to numbers of clubs, or is there something we should be doing, but aren't, at club level?

MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 39 - 15/04/2024 16:57:30    2538146

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Replying To MeathAbroad:  "Brian Farrell was very good on Second Captains the other day (Friday). He said he's working with a Dublin club and it's depressing to see thr difference in level compared to Meath clubs. I'm not involved in club scene. Is the difference purely down to numbers of clubs, or is there something we should be doing, but aren't, at club level?"
where would you like to start.
Yes for sure the average Club environment , facilities Coaching & "staffing" In Dublin Clubs are much better ....and we probably would not be surprised by that...this all creates a environment of Semi professionalism ...and that is really what you are talking about . We are still running Our Clubs , not much different to the way we ran them 20/30 years ago...
Its nearly a case of ..we don't even know , what we don't know .
The quality of individuals available to Your average Dublin Club is unreal...and some would argue that these individuals in administration, diet, training, medical , finance...don't Kick the Football for the club...but we are missing the Point . the point is all about Levels...they are at a higher standard in everything ....and that's not a money thing...Its a Quality People Issue ...and the same is exactly true of its County Board ...and that trickles down to their Coaches, Managers etc...
We have great volunteers ....but we just haven't grasped that...like it or not..right or wrong...The Top Counties & Clubs have taken the Club environment & County environment to a level that we just don't understand .

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 385 - 15/04/2024 17:47:14    2538164

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Replying To MeathAbroad:  "Brian Farrell was very good on Second Captains the other day (Friday). He said he's working with a Dublin club and it's depressing to see thr difference in level compared to Meath clubs. I'm not involved in club scene. Is the difference purely down to numbers of clubs, or is there something we should be doing, but aren't, at club level?"
It would be down to the level of professionalism. For example most Dublin senior clubs would have a managerial set up of a very high level coach/manager, decent selectors who would have very little connections to a team (in most cases), a nutritionist, s&c coach, probably 1/2 physios, 2 folks doing stats.

Then add in the access the players have to the gym and a good s&c program which would be similar for all the clubs so when they go into the county set up they aren't having to up their gym work by much. Video analysis is also huge, most clubs in Dublin are doing reviews on a Monday evening of the game at the weekend and then train the next night focusing on specific areas of the game.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 15/04/2024 18:35:13    2538171

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Everyone, lets just take a while to digest and dilute exactly what's going on with our game.

The GAA created the monster that is now Dublin, not the dubs fault, but they are a cash cow for the GAA. the monies they receive from the organisation is a disgrace compared to other county boards.

Lets go back to where it all began with this mess the GAA has created, Meath beat Dublin in 2010, scoring 5 goals on the way, since then below has what has been paid to Dublin, in second place was cork.
TOTAL RECEIVED SINCE 2007:
Dublin €21,837,562; Cork: €2,863,228

Now only for some business men in Mayo who funded the team to compete ( professional training ) at a cost of around €600,000 a year we would have had probably no real all Ireland finals.

Covid struck, Tyrone took advantage with some cuteness and then Kerry while Dessie was busy sorting out some internal problems with club players, all back again now and business is restored.

The same has been done to hurling with JP funding a professional team in Limerick.

Word on the street is a good few Derry business people are now funding their county to compete, simple fact is not every county has people to fund the setup required to compete at the Top.

I would say clubs in Dublin would have more financial incomes that a lot of counties in Ireland, Dublin gaa is the central Bank of the GAA , Dear God they are even bringing lads from every corner of the country to play club level.

Its a good job their is no transfer system in the GAA or it would be goodnight Irene altogether.

Anyone who can try attempt to promote our game on television and tell people its an amateur sport in Dublin is deluded, it is for many but not for some.

Our national Game is dying a slow death due to greed and it is only a matter of time before it goes beyond repair.

Meath did well yesterday considering what we have and what we were up against.

Army's cost lots of money to build !!!!

thelutch (Meath) - Posts: 1049 - 15/04/2024 18:47:49    2538173

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Replying To mmc:  "100% Agree we don't move the ball quick enough we give the opposition time to set up and then we end up either coughing up position or shooting from where teams are happy to let you shoot .
We only scored 2 goals In the league and never got a sniff of one yesterday I wouldn't count the 3 against Longford they are a div 4 team so the speed we are coached to move the ball forward has to be questioned ."
Agreed 100% That should definately be top of the list for next training session because its a major weakness..

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 15/04/2024 19:04:39    2538175

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Replying To hyperache:  "Would tend to agree with most of what you're saying. Meath looked a little lost and void of ideas when Dublin just stood off them and went man to man. And when they did create an angle, the finishing wasn't there. But they will learn from the experience, there's few teams better than Dublin at doing what they did

Dublin on the other hand were able to constantly recycle until the opportunity presented itself, and they look their chances. But that been said, we defended well in the first half, Dublin did struggle with the low block at times, and but for the goal we might have found ourselves only 2/3 points down at the break.

But too many times we forced the turnover ourselves with sloppy play, I like Ronan Jones as a player - but too many times he just runs down a blind ally and into a sea of players, and you really can't do that at this level. Hate to single him out because a few others were at it too, and I don't think Billy Hogan offered enough when he came out. You always got the feeling he was going to fumble it.

I'm more just disappointed with the margin of defeat, we tighten up the last 10 mins, lost maybe 1-18 to 0-13, and there's something to work on, it's encouraging considering we know Dublin are miles better than us. But the heads dropped and we ended up losing by 16, it's disheartening."
But for the goal that should.not have been (how the hell can a referee let a goal stand when the guy ran about 15 steps, mind boggling) it would have been relatively close at half time.

But our second half performance was dire.
After a few kick outs went wrong in second half I was surprised Billy just didn't go long with nearly all kick outs.

I have a feeling we wouldn't have taken quiet as bad a beating off some of the other top teams, you wonder have all these beatings over the years really given Meath a psychological problem when facing Dublin.

Looking at the crowd/ atmosphere in Croke park yesterday I think it's time to move all Leinster provincial championship matches out of Croke park.
Playing in CP isn't doing anything for any county teams in Leinster.

Only bright spot is we have a long time to get over this.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1365 - 15/04/2024 20:07:05    2538184

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "where would you like to start.
Yes for sure the average Club environment , facilities Coaching & "staffing" In Dublin Clubs are much better ....and we probably would not be surprised by that...this all creates a environment of Semi professionalism ...and that is really what you are talking about . We are still running Our Clubs , not much different to the way we ran them 20/30 years ago...
Its nearly a case of ..we don't even know , what we don't know .
The quality of individuals available to Your average Dublin Club is unreal...and some would argue that these individuals in administration, diet, training, medical , finance...don't Kick the Football for the club...but we are missing the Point . the point is all about Levels...they are at a higher standard in everything ....and that's not a money thing...Its a Quality People Issue ...and the same is exactly true of its County Board ...and that trickles down to their Coaches, Managers etc...
We have great volunteers ....but we just haven't grasped that...like it or not..right or wrong...The Top Counties & Clubs have taken the Club environment & County environment to a level that we just don't understand ."
You are really correct here. Unfortunately most of the high calibre people now live in or around Dublin area with many Dublin clubs having these people as their members. Some of these people are actually really good GAA people from other parts of the country but as they work and settled in Dublin this is where they are. Its also unfortunate that alot of the great GAA people in Meath are now aging. You may get a few really good individuals here or there in clubs but they are not wholesome and same goes for county board. These are volunteers. No professional setup or industry is made up by volunteers at the top table. You could still make the point however that there are teams north of the boarder doing fine with similar funding to Meath.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 15/04/2024 22:06:54    2538201

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