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Replying To Tinchy1: "Is there when Blackhall played a player who was suspended?" Anthony Moyles was suspended but blackhall appealed and were told the appeal was successful, turned out it wasn't, can't remember exactly who told blackhall he was clear to play but I think he played the replay which dunshaughlin won.
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 667 - 04/09/2023 17:31:42
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Replying To kingofclubs: " Replying To Ratoath Royal: "Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games." Ratoath royal, you have explained the situation very accurately in your post. The important thing here is the statement "Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulations" In the case of Meath GAA, their competition regulations are clearly set out as per your post, so there is no default to the new GAA regulations. Therefore Don/Ash go through on the basis of Meath Competition regulations and Na Fianna do not have any case."
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 04/09/2023 17:42:20
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Replying To reallyreilly: "The competition regulations before competition started that you speak about actually send na fianna trough .." How so?
Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 359 - 04/09/2023 17:49:46
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Replying To summerhillof69: "Looks like Sour grapes to me , be different if they had won the head to head
No one wants to win anything through the boardroom - have some pride and drop the appeal
Id be embarrassed if it was my club pulling a stunt like this" I'm neutral here but I'm sure if summerhill got fired out of the championship due to wrong ruling it would be appealed .
Pead0bum84 (Meath) - Posts: 26 - 04/09/2023 18:20:27
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An appeal that will have a result on Thursday evening when the game is set for Friday evening.
What an absolute mess. Na Fianna agreed to the rules back in February. Poor form to not agree to them because it hasn't gone their way.
RR (Meath) - Posts: 139 - 04/09/2023 21:42:59
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Replying To Pead0bum84: "na fiannas right to look for a rule that exists to be used should not be mistaken for your own stupidity and arrogance . You are trying to make it out that the club looking for a loop hole the rules of the gaa state they go through . There was no objection to losing 2 games . Na fianna Ashbourne and curraha all lost 2 games . Look into these things before you comment . The point isn't about being good enough to still be in the keegan or not it's about applying a rule . Also it's a massive advantage just to not have to play a relegation game ." People in agreement with na Fianna have 12, 15 and 54 post each, tells you all you need to know of where they are from.
We clearly follow the Meath GAA competition rules when competing in Meath and it clearly states Ashbourne go through.
If they had such an issue with the rules should they not have brought it up before this?
It is just a desperate act and I hope Meath GAA get their way on this.
Maestro (Meath) - Posts: 569 - 04/09/2023 23:24:17
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Replying To Ratoath Royal: "Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games." Excellent post and I can't see anyone in Meath agreeing with Na Fianna's actions except for people form Na Fianna.
Maestro (Meath) - Posts: 569 - 04/09/2023 23:28:53
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It is now Tuesday, with games due to on Friday and Saturday. How has this not been resolved by now?
BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 05/09/2023 08:56:57
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This issue is now cropping up in many counties, croke park have questions to answer re communication of this to co boards.
Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1467 - 05/09/2023 09:49:26
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Replying To Maestro: " Replying To Ratoath Royal: "Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games." Excellent post and I can't see anyone in Meath agreeing with Na Fianna's actions except for people form Na Fianna."
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 05/09/2023 10:51:13
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Replying To reallyreilly: "Excellent post and I can't see anyone in Meath agreeing with Na Fianna's actions except for people form Na Fianna." I live 18/20 mile from na fianna with no affiliation to them and I think there 100% right the county board are at fault ...I actually work with a player from don/Ashbourne he was saying after the final whistle in the last game ..na fianna had taught they qualified ..don/Ashbourne taught they had nobody knew what was happening...there is a good few players and clubmen from different clubs in the county in my place of work ..vast majority think na fianna are right to appeal...dunshaughlins score difference should not have been taken into account end of that's the bottom line ...do yous honestly think leinster council would entertain there appeal if they taught the club was wrong"]Unfortunately for Na Fianna Meath GAA did not adopt the new GAA regulations, so the Meath competition regulations are the ones that must be applied. The GAA regulations state that they only come into play when there are no competition regulations in place by the county involved.
kingofclubs (Meath) - Posts: 321 - 05/09/2023 11:54:38
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Replying To kingofclubs: "I live 18/20 mile from na fianna with no affiliation to them and I think there 100% right the county board are at fault ...I actually work with a player from don/Ashbourne he was saying after the final whistle in the last game ..na fianna had taught they qualified ..don/Ashbourne taught they had nobody knew what was happening...there is a good few players and clubmen from different clubs in the county in my place of work ..vast majority think na fianna are right to appeal...dunshaughlins score difference should not have been taken into account end of that's the bottom line ...do yous honestly think leinster council would entertain there appeal if they taught the club was wrong" Unfortunately for Na Fianna Meath GAA did not adopt the new GAA regulations, so the Meath competition regulations are the ones that must be applied. The GAA regulations state that they only come into play when there are no competition regulations in place by the county involved."]I think Na Fianna are being harshly treated here. I also have no affiliation to NF or Ashbourne but for people to lump them in with dunboyne rathkenny or any other team who appealed on technicality or loop hole like too many subs used or too many players on the pitch etc is harsh.
They genuinely believe the rule is with them so of course they are going to appeal . As obviously Ashbourne do too and to be honest at this stage after nearly a week of this I have no idea anymore who i believe the rule sides with. The more i read the rules and regulations the less clear I am on who is right here.
Who ever is right and whatever comes out of it over the next few days it has been an absolute mess for the CBs and for the Leinster Council and Croke Park.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 872 - 05/09/2023 12:22:09
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Replying To Maestro: " Replying To Ratoath Royal: "Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games." Excellent post and I can't see anyone in Meath agreeing with Na Fianna's actions except for people form Na Fianna."
latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 520 - 05/09/2023 12:45:28
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Replying To kingofclubs: "I live 18/20 mile from na fianna with no affiliation to them and I think there 100% right the county board are at fault ...I actually work with a player from don/Ashbourne he was saying after the final whistle in the last game ..na fianna had taught they qualified ..don/Ashbourne taught they had nobody knew what was happening...there is a good few players and clubmen from different clubs in the county in my place of work ..vast majority think na fianna are right to appeal...dunshaughlins score difference should not have been taken into account end of that's the bottom line ...do yous honestly think leinster council would entertain there appeal if they taught the club was wrong" Unfortunately for Na Fianna Meath GAA did not adopt the new GAA regulations, so the Meath competition regulations are the ones that must be applied. The GAA regulations state that they only come into play when there are no competition regulations in place by the county involved."]Very very similar posts, different usernames? Odd?
Amarach (Meath) - Posts: 49 - 05/09/2023 12:51:02
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Replying To Amarach: "Unfortunately for Na Fianna Meath GAA did not adopt the new GAA regulations, so the Meath competition regulations are the ones that must be applied. The GAA regulations state that they only come into play when there are no competition regulations in place by the county involved." Very very similar posts, different usernames? Odd?"]All clubs got an email seemingly sent to them before championship started outlining the new rules ...if its a lie I'm telling its a lie iv been told
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 05/09/2023 13:42:41
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Replying To Blackspot09: "Unfortunately for Na Fianna Meath GAA did not adopt the new GAA regulations, so the Meath competition regulations are the ones that must be applied. The GAA regulations state that they only come into play when there are no competition regulations in place by the county involved." I think Na Fianna are being harshly treated here. I also have no affiliation to NF or Ashbourne but for people to lump them in with dunboyne rathkenny or any other team who appealed on technicality or loop hole like too many subs used or too many players on the pitch etc is harsh.
They genuinely believe the rule is with them so of course they are going to appeal . As obviously Ashbourne do too and to be honest at this stage after nearly a week of this I have no idea anymore who i believe the rule sides with. The more i read the rules and regulations the less clear I am on who is right here.
Who ever is right and whatever comes out of it over the next few days it has been an absolute mess for the CBs and for the Leinster Council and Croke Park."]I suppose firstly either Meath bye law or official guide rules have to decided on which is used, then hire joe brolly to dissect it and come to a conclusion, seriously though it's a real mess and unfortunate for the clubs involved , the only good that will come out of the wash is either one or the other rule will have to be set in stone
royler (Meath) - Posts: 259 - 05/09/2023 14:02:57
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It really is all irrelevant
Neither team are Winning the Keegan cup
And neither team will be relegated
Awaywin (Meath) - Posts: 100 - 05/09/2023 14:52:14
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Replying To Awaywin: "It really is all irrelevant
Neither team are Winning the Keegan cup
And neither team will be relegated" Very true....but neither club will see it that way...
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 05/09/2023 15:19:23
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Replying To Royal.Legend: "Anthony Moyles was suspended but blackhall appealed and were told the appeal was successful, turned out it wasn't, can't remember exactly who told blackhall he was clear to play but I think he played the replay which dunshaughlin won." I had forgotten all about that. What year was it ?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/09/2023 15:42:47
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Bit messy to say the least. Who's right who's wrong ? I'm not getting into that. Also cilles waiting to see if they have a game , who will it be , and when will it be played. Madness all around. And again I'm not saying who is right or wrong in this situation
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/09/2023 15:48:15
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