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Are dates and venues for the QFs published yet?
GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 30/08/2023 08:36:59
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Replying To CMAN1570: "Moynalty win the group if they beat boardsmill" Yeah it's a very tight group if moynalty win there in a semi final if they lose there out altogether
royal1967 (Meath) - Posts: 258 - 04/09/2023 09:27:52
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What's going on with Na Fianna Don/Ash appeal now? Appears like an absolute mess of the Meath County Board and CCC's making. How can you not have a proper handle of your own competitions rules and regulations?
BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 04/09/2023 10:28:53
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Replying To BigJoe14: "What's going on with Na Fianna Don/Ash appeal now? Appears like an absolute mess of the Meath County Board and CCC's making. How can you not have a proper handle of your own competitions rules and regulations?" If they go by the rule book, surely Na Fianna go through to QF - it's that simple.
Tinchy1 (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 04/09/2023 11:55:19
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Longwood also disputing hurling relegation on the same basis as Na fianna objection. Absolute mess.
Foley91 (Meath) - Posts: 418 - 04/09/2023 11:59:11
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Replying To BigJoe14: "What's going on with Na Fianna Don/Ash appeal now? Appears like an absolute mess of the Meath County Board and CCC's making. How can you not have a proper handle of your own competitions rules and regulations?" A messy situation. Meath GAA regulations clearly show that Don/Ash qualify but apparently Na Fianna put in some objection to the Leinster council based on some technicality. Poor form from Na Fianna when they even lost the head to head game between the teams.
kingofclubs (Meath) - Posts: 321 - 04/09/2023 12:09:28
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Replying To BigJoe14: "What's going on with Na Fianna Don/Ash appeal now? Appears like an absolute mess of the Meath County Board and CCC's making. How can you not have a proper handle of your own competitions rules and regulations?" It's an unlucky situation to end up in the first place, tied on points, head to head couldn't decide it, both -1 score difference, it went down to the next criteria according to Meath GAA rules - whoever scored the most wins the head to head.
But the Leinster council seem to be think there was grounds for an appeal and according to the Meath Chronicle have ordered a play off. A play off might put us in the same situation though too.
Na Fianna's argument was that the games used to decide who scored the most should only include the teams tied on points, and the games involving the other team Dunshaughlin shouldn't be taken into account. That would give them a +3 and D/A a 0 score difference.
Personally I don't agree with Na Fianna's logic because Curraha were already eliminated on score difference so therefore aren't in the running anyway. So why would you only include them and not include Dunshaughlin who are also out of the running having won the group?
I would side with the Meath GAA rules in that the aggerate score of all group games should be considered but I also believe there was guidance from the GAA sent to all the counties previously and Meath choose to not apply them.
But either way, it's going to hold things up as D/A are almost certainly going to appeal the ruling.
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 04/09/2023 12:13:07
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When will the Junior A and B quarter finals be played? There is nothing in the fixture planner for them
Trad_Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1 - 04/09/2023 12:21:12
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It takes a certain team and club to go looking for loop holes in the rules and try to bend them in their favour.
I think back to Dunboyne and Walterstown in recent memory and I wouldn't have much respect for either club.
Na Fianna lost 2 games fair and square and will be no where near winning a Keegan cup and I dont think they will be going down either.
At the opposite side of it, O'Mahonys last year could have appealed the game against Seneschalstown as they brought on an extra sub but they showed their class and took their medicine.
Maestro (Meath) - Posts: 569 - 04/09/2023 12:43:55
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People should be giving out about the County Board and not Na Fianna. Check out the rule book - when teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or for promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following; (i) 'the higher the number of league points obtained in the 'head to head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other', (ii)the higher scoring difference in the head to head games.......So Na Fianna finish. It's not a loophole, it's the rules??
Tinchy1 (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 04/09/2023 14:10:04
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Lads
Rules are Rules and Mistakes can happen. I think Na Fianna are correct with their appeal whether its right or wrong in peoples eyes.
I don't think Na Fianna should accept a replay either. Rule tells us that Na Fianna go through, Meath obviously forgot to update their rulebook.
I agree that its a total mess alright and should never have happened
thelutch (Meath) - Posts: 1049 - 04/09/2023 14:42:43
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Replying To Maestro: "It takes a certain team and club to go looking for loop holes in the rules and try to bend them in their favour.
I think back to Dunboyne and Walterstown in recent memory and I wouldn't have much respect for either club.
Na Fianna lost 2 games fair and square and will be no where near winning a Keegan cup and I dont think they will be going down either.
At the opposite side of it, O'Mahonys last year could have appealed the game against Seneschalstown as they brought on an extra sub but they showed their class and took their medicine." Dunshaughlin done it to Blackhall Gaels back in the early naughties and subsequently lost allot of respect in meath, I think it could of been the year they won leinster so for them I suppose it paid off.
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 667 - 04/09/2023 14:46:30
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Ridiculous how a club can just go and appeal something like this even though the competition's regulations were set before it started. It wasn't as if it was made up as they went along.
Either County boards have the autonomy to set their own competition rules and regulations, or they don't. There shouldn't be a grey area. If they don't have the autonomy to do so, then a standardised set of competition rules/regulations should be applied by the GAA across the whole country and abroad. But either way, Na Fianna have some neck on them appealing.
Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 359 - 04/09/2023 14:48:28
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Replying To Maestro: "It takes a certain team and club to go looking for loop holes in the rules and try to bend them in their favour.
I think back to Dunboyne and Walterstown in recent memory and I wouldn't have much respect for either club.
Na Fianna lost 2 games fair and square and will be no where near winning a Keegan cup and I dont think they will be going down either.
At the opposite side of it, O'Mahonys last year could have appealed the game against Seneschalstown as they brought on an extra sub but they showed their class and took their medicine." Thing is its actually a rule and not a loop hole... that was sent to all clubs in March by meath county board ..the rule came from leinster Council and was ignored by the county ..there are disputes in offaly clare and other county's aswell ....
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 04/09/2023 15:07:10
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Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games.
Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1362 - 04/09/2023 15:09:56
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Replying To Selwyn: "Ridiculous how a club can just go and appeal something like this even though the competition's regulations were set before it started. It wasn't as if it was made up as they went along.
Either County boards have the autonomy to set their own competition rules and regulations, or they don't. There shouldn't be a grey area. If they don't have the autonomy to do so, then a standardised set of competition rules/regulations should be applied by the GAA across the whole country and abroad. But either way, Na Fianna have some neck on them appealing." The competition regulations before competition started that you speak about actually send na fianna trough ..
reallyreilly (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 04/09/2023 16:03:09
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Replying To Royal.Legend: "Dunshaughlin done it to Blackhall Gaels back in the early naughties and subsequently lost allot of respect in meath, I think it could of been the year they won leinster so for them I suppose it paid off." Is there when Blackhall played a player who was suspended?
Tinchy1 (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 04/09/2023 16:13:15
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Replying To Maestro: "It takes a certain team and club to go looking for loop holes in the rules and try to bend them in their favour.
I think back to Dunboyne and Walterstown in recent memory and I wouldn't have much respect for either club.
Na Fianna lost 2 games fair and square and will be no where near winning a Keegan cup and I dont think they will be going down either.
At the opposite side of it, O'Mahonys last year could have appealed the game against Seneschalstown as they brought on an extra sub but they showed their class and took their medicine." na fiannas right to look for a rule that exists to be used should not be mistaken for your own stupidity and arrogance . You are trying to make it out that the club looking for a loop hole the rules of the gaa state they go through . There was no objection to losing 2 games . Na fianna Ashbourne and curraha all lost 2 games . Look into these things before you comment . The point isn't about being good enough to still be in the keegan or not it's about applying a rule . Also it's a massive advantage just to not have to play a relegation game .
Pead0bum84 (Meath) - Posts: 26 - 04/09/2023 16:27:09
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Replying To Pead0bum84: "na fiannas right to look for a rule that exists to be used should not be mistaken for your own stupidity and arrogance . You are trying to make it out that the club looking for a loop hole the rules of the gaa state they go through . There was no objection to losing 2 games . Na fianna Ashbourne and curraha all lost 2 games . Look into these things before you comment . The point isn't about being good enough to still be in the keegan or not it's about applying a rule . Also it's a massive advantage just to not have to play a relegation game ." Looks like Sour grapes to me , be different if they had won the head to head
No one wants to win anything through the boardroom - have some pride and drop the appeal
Id be embarrassed if it was my club pulling a stunt like this
summerhillof69 (Meath) - Posts: 226 - 04/09/2023 16:37:05
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Replying To Ratoath Royal: "Here's what I can find from both the GAA's official guide and from the Meath County Board's regulations:
GAA Official Guide
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) The higher number of League Points obtained in the 'Head-to-Head' games defined as the games in which the teams involved in the tie have played each other.
(ii) The higher Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For) in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iii) The higher Scores For in the 'Head-to-Head' games.
(iv) If the application of criteria (i) to (iii) results in a team(s) being successful or eliminated but there is still a relevant tie to be decided, criteria (i) to (iii) are to be repeated for the 'Head-to-Head' games only of the still tied teams.
(v) The higher Scoring Difference in all games in the League Group.
(vi) The higher Scores For in all games in the League Group.
(vii) A Play-Off.
Meath County Board Regulations
When teams finish with equal points for qualification for the concluding stages, or promotion or relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Least number of games forfeited
ii. Points awarded from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other
iii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)
iv. Highest Total Score For
v. The highest number of Goals For
vi. The lowest number of goals Conceded
vii. Play - Off
So while the GAA's official guide does say that score difference in the H2H games takes precedence, it also appears to defer to the county's competition regulations. Meath's regulations clearly state that total score difference be taken into account. As far as I know, this has been the case for years so Na Fianna, in my view, shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also leaves them looking rather bitter. They were semi finalists last year and got drawn in a group with two relegation playoff teams from last year and last year's IFC champions. On paper, that was a dream group yet they could only manage one win in three games." Ratoath royal, you have explained the situation very accurately in your post. The important thing here is the statement "Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulations" In the case of Meath GAA, their competition regulations are clearly set out as per your post, so there is no default to the new GAA regulations. Therefore Don/Ash go through on the basis of Meath Competition regulations and Na Fianna do not have any case.
kingofclubs (Meath) - Posts: 321 - 04/09/2023 17:01:59
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