Cavan Forum

Cavan In The Qualifiers/ Super 8S

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "A previous poster put it so succinctly with a very apt phrase.

Cavan footballers attidues over the past fifty years can be summed up as follows,

"if we win that's great, and if we lose, that's alright too".

It's an incredibly accurate phrase to describe the mentality that exists within Cavan football. It's all wrong, from the players, to the management, to the supporters, to the administration. We're all in this together, and we all need to reflect on how we can change."
well every team will get beaten in the championship this year bar one (Dublin). It's the manner in which we were beaten that sticks in the craw.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5236 - 08/07/2019 22:48:36    2208240

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Replying To sidelineview:  "I fell for it again, hook, line and sinker - I thought we had turned a corner but the old failings have come back to haunt us. I kind of agree with Mickey that we are not as bad as the showing on Saturday but we have a lot of catching up to do to bridge the gap to the top teams. I wasn't expecting a win, we have to remember that Tyrone team were in an all Ireland final last year, something we can only dream of but I was expecting a bit of fight from the team after the Ulster Final showing ... some of shooting was terrible ... the wides and missed frees at the end in particular were very poor.

I see references from other posters to the party bus and it was on the move yesterday again - now I don't begrudge the lads having a few beers but a party bus doing the rounds and the players visibly drunk is not the kind of message to send to the young lads (and ladies) wanting to become the next Cavan great.

After the Ulster final, the players were out in Cavan town kitted out with tops saying "Ulster Final 2019" - and unfortunately it struck a chord, I think that is the level of our ambition, we seemed happy to get there for the day out but we need to change the mentality and tops that say "Ulster Final winners 202x"! If they were making tops for Ulster final appearances for the Donegal lads they would have to re-open the fruit of the loom factory up there!

Hopefully we can re-group because div 2 next year will be no stroll in the park with a few ulster derbies, a half decent Clare team, our auld friends the rossies to name but a few just waiting to get a crack at us ..."
On our current trajectory, climate change will have ended the world before we next win an Ulster title.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 343 - 09/07/2019 09:42:11    2208316

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Look lads we've been changing the manager for fifty years. Eventually there comes a time when we just have to recognise that it's not the manager.

Its the standard of players at his disposal. The calibre and standard of the players coming through the club system is significantly below that in other countries like Tyrone or Donegal. Armagh are now also about to go on an upward trajectory because they've unearthed some serious young talent.

If we don't address the issues at the grassroots level, we can expect to go another fifty years since we had a competitive, successful team.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 343 - 09/07/2019 11:20:52    2208359

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Anyone up for a party bus?

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 583 - 09/07/2019 11:30:20    2208362

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Replying To Kilnaleck Blue:  "Whatever about the huge disappointment at the level of Cavan's defeat last Saturday I do not like so called supporters running down our players. These lads have given up time and effort and even if they are not at the standard of many of Tyrone"s players they have made sacrifices to be on the panel. It was not lack of effort that was the problem Saturday it was tactically we were outfoxed and yes ability. Having to work far too hard to get scores.. If there are players in the County who can do any better let's have their names please?"
I would agree that supporters have no right to criticize players making a genuine effort. You have people on here saying that they have earned the right to say what they want just because they pay into matches- rubbish! Some are just disappointed because the piss-up after a win has been taken away from them.
€25 for 70 minutes is easy, try taking 10 hours or more out of your week to coach, organize or referee at club level, never mind playing or training, Not so easy then. But I do maintain there is a problem with some players thinking they have 'made it' with Cavan. They are too comfortable in the county jersey for the effort shown. That is up to the manager to deal with. The supporters should back what needs to be done.
As Cavan supporters we need to up our game too. Far too quick to react to a few good results like this year. We had our lads built up as world beaters. Somebody else mentioned it too that certain local journalists/podcasts etc. contribute to the hype. Then we are too quick to abandon all hope when it crashes down. I was annoyed at how poor the attendance was last Saturday. Was that any way to back a team needing support after losing a big final? The streams of blue leaving the ground after 10 minutes in the second half made it worse. It was embarrassing to be honest. We need to accept our place in the world, do positive things as supporters like attend club championships and put money in the coffers. Then give panel members the respect the deserve next year and back a manager who selects players on effort not reputation.

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 427 - 09/07/2019 12:18:00    2208388

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We can consider ourselves lucky we didn't qualify for the super 8s because with the attitude we've shown in the last couple of games we would have beeen thumped of the field by any of the teams involved apart from maybe Meath.
When the academy is built we'll have some of the finest facilities in the country but will it change anything. Future looks "BLUE" very BLUE.
Radical changes needed, but where to begin???

Virginia (Cavan) - Posts: 84 - 09/07/2019 12:19:52    2208390

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Replying To s goldrick:  "yes. i think it was disgusting that Martin was taken off at half-time against Tyrone ."
Do you think he should have been taking off earlier

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 261 - 09/07/2019 13:11:08    2208422

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Huge disappointment. Not that we lost, but that we only contested the game for the first 5 mins. I have never left a Cavan match early, but at half time I would have taken the result if I had known that they were going to concede the second half. I don't really blame the manager, I wasn't too far away from him and he seemed to be unable to get them to follow instructions on the field. I think that this was a case of a mental block across the playing population.

I think we underestimate the psychological damage that Donegal inflicted on the squad. Looking at the Meath match, I honestly don't think we'd have beaten Clare. And would appearing in the Super 8's have done us any good? You could say that Ross recovered from some hammerings last year, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Something has to explain how we fought like hell to beat an improving Armagh team and were so flat against Donegal and Tyrone. I think Micky needs to replace at least 6 lads who just aren't up to this level, no harm to them. We have lads around the county who experienced success at U21 level, which in my view is vital to have that winning mentality coming into senior level. I'd include Michael Argue in that. Don't understand why he got zero game time. So have we squandered this group of winners? Looks like it and judging by the U20's on Sat, we don't have much on the immediate conveyer belt to look forward to.

Hopefully Micky already has formed a view as to how to move forward. I think he needs to be clinical both with the players and also his management team, if needbe. There's a growing suspicion that there is an absence of harmony on the line or on the stand. Certainly, Micky and Corey looked aligned but appearances can be deceptive. Hopefully the energy will return during the winter and they'll come back stronger.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 427 - 09/07/2019 18:01:35    2208575

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Replying To goonie:  "Do you think he should have been taking off earlier"
no

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5236 - 09/07/2019 23:07:39    2208763

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Replying To s goldrick:  "no"
What reason would you give for him not to be taken off? Did you think he was playing well? I know we can only make 6 substitutions but last Saturday was one of those days where we could have done with 15 substitutions after about 15 minutes.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 10/07/2019 09:22:10    2208857

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Replying To sidelineview:  "I fell for it again, hook, line and sinker - I thought we had turned a corner but the old failings have come back to haunt us. I kind of agree with Mickey that we are not as bad as the showing on Saturday but we have a lot of catching up to do to bridge the gap to the top teams. I wasn't expecting a win, we have to remember that Tyrone team were in an all Ireland final last year, something we can only dream of but I was expecting a bit of fight from the team after the Ulster Final showing ... some of shooting was terrible ... the wides and missed frees at the end in particular were very poor.

I see references from other posters to the party bus and it was on the move yesterday again - now I don't begrudge the lads having a few beers but a party bus doing the rounds and the players visibly drunk is not the kind of message to send to the young lads (and ladies) wanting to become the next Cavan great.

After the Ulster final, the players were out in Cavan town kitted out with tops saying "Ulster Final 2019" - and unfortunately it struck a chord, I think that is the level of our ambition, we seemed happy to get there for the day out but we need to change the mentality and tops that say "Ulster Final winners 202x"! If they were making tops for Ulster final appearances for the Donegal lads they would have to re-open the fruit of the loom factory up there!

Hopefully we can re-group because div 2 next year will be no stroll in the park with a few ulster derbies, a half decent Clare team, our auld friends the rossies to name but a few just waiting to get a crack at us ..."
Tyrone were beaten in the first round and you didn't see them getting back on the bus, straight back into training knowing that they can only improve as the year goes on. That's the kinda mentality we need.
We were hammered in the Ulster final and instead of going home with a our tails between our legs, we partied. No sense of achievement no silverware for all that endeavor.
When we drew Tyrone you could nearly sense from the players and supporters that they had given up the ghost before the ball was thrown in.
Which proved to be the case.
Need to instill self belief and look to the Donegal role model. Party when you win!!!!

Virginia (Cavan) - Posts: 84 - 10/07/2019 10:12:19    2208886

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I needed some time to think before I started typing as the heat of the moment can draw out too much emotion. I don't think there is a single person who reads this group who wasn't badly hurt by this game. And it will take a while for us all to get over it and to even think about the league next year.

My feeling is that we have found a manager that seems to have the backing of the entire county and someone who has huge credentials with what he has done on the club scene. There are no ulterior motives involved as Mickey is Cavan through and through and he only wants the best for the county. Of that I am sure.

So considering we have the above part right then we next need to look at what players we have. Lets face it, we are limited in our player pool. But we have quality there and lads who have experienced winning. I am not going down the underage success route as that now needs to be put to bed - it's history now. I am not sure that we will unearth that many quality players over the championship and assuming we don't then we need to make a plan as to how we can get every last drop out of our players. That's Mickey's job and I have confidence that he can do it.

I think that we have to give him time. We are clearly well behind Tyrone and Donegal at the moment. Many felt that we didn't die on our shield at the weekend and I certainly had that feeling. But i also feel that we lost that game mentally before the heavy punches were landed. So that is the No 1 area for addressing in my opinion. Mindset is key and that takes time. I know that I have had a few different bosses at work and they all have different approaches. We have had a few different voices in a short period of time also and the players need time to hear Mickeys approach.

I am not too despondent. I see us having every chance of getting promoted back to division 1 next year and that would be a real shot in the arm for the team moving into the championship. This project needs time and calm heads. I actually think those last 2 games will have done a lot for the team in terms of learning.

For now, its a bitter pill to swallow having been beaten out the gate by Tyrone but I really do think there is more to come from this group and from the management. We are a level below but we can make gains and get an extra % out of the current squad - of that I have no doubt. I think there will be good days ahead and I will be there to back the team all the way.

Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 10/07/2019 10:34:41    2208897

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It's not just the League final, they went on a few days tear after the League final defeat to Tyrone in 2016 and Roscommon in 2018.. But that's been going on a while in cavan football, going through a few managers. They are free to do what they want of course, amateurs.. But it's like it's party no matter what the result

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 1834 - 10/07/2019 11:01:50    2208928

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In the all the year's contributing to the forum i don't any game has had the impact of last Saturday evening's game. Hopefully some good will come from it.

kildare blue (Cavan) - Posts: 552 - 10/07/2019 15:33:09    2209098

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I honestly think the whole Cavan set up needs to be reviewed .
With the players the attitude has to change. If a player isn't serious about making the full sacrifice then don't commit , this thing about losing a game and going on the beer isn't acceptable, it happened from the first league game in Galway, its bad when players gets in worst states from drink than the fans after a league game .
With the manager Mickey has to be let take full control of the team and allowed to appoint who he wants in his staff or walk away.
With the county board they have to let the manager manage and stay out of it.
Choosing players has to be made from merit and not about who they belong to or what club they play for. Unless all this crap that is going on inside the camp isnt sorted we will have more dull days ahead .

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 261 - 10/07/2019 18:10:57    2209181

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Replying To kildare blue:  "In the all the year's contributing to the forum i don't any game has had the impact of last Saturday evening's game. Hopefully some good will come from it."
you'd be hoping that it would have some longterm impact on the lads alright, but from experience, this will hurt Cavan for a week or a month and then they'll get over it and move on. a year from now we most likely will be having a similar debate

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 371 - 11/07/2019 11:30:14    2209414

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Replying To Reformation:  "I needed some time to think before I started typing as the heat of the moment can draw out too much emotion. I don't think there is a single person who reads this group who wasn't badly hurt by this game. And it will take a while for us all to get over it and to even think about the league next year.

My feeling is that we have found a manager that seems to have the backing of the entire county and someone who has huge credentials with what he has done on the club scene. There are no ulterior motives involved as Mickey is Cavan through and through and he only wants the best for the county. Of that I am sure.

So considering we have the above part right then we next need to look at what players we have. Lets face it, we are limited in our player pool. But we have quality there and lads who have experienced winning. I am not going down the underage success route as that now needs to be put to bed - it's history now. I am not sure that we will unearth that many quality players over the championship and assuming we don't then we need to make a plan as to how we can get every last drop out of our players. That's Mickey's job and I have confidence that he can do it.

I think that we have to give him time. We are clearly well behind Tyrone and Donegal at the moment. Many felt that we didn't die on our shield at the weekend and I certainly had that feeling. But i also feel that we lost that game mentally before the heavy punches were landed. So that is the No 1 area for addressing in my opinion. Mindset is key and that takes time. I know that I have had a few different bosses at work and they all have different approaches. We have had a few different voices in a short period of time also and the players need time to hear Mickeys approach.

I am not too despondent. I see us having every chance of getting promoted back to division 1 next year and that would be a real shot in the arm for the team moving into the championship. This project needs time and calm heads. I actually think those last 2 games will have done a lot for the team in terms of learning.

For now, its a bitter pill to swallow having been beaten out the gate by Tyrone but I really do think there is more to come from this group and from the management. We are a level below but we can make gains and get an extra % out of the current squad - of that I have no doubt. I think there will be good days ahead and I will be there to back the team all the way."
Some good points there and I agree that the manager needs time, but time spent doing what is the big question.
In the overall scheme of things, many people will say that Cavan improved this year, but did they really?
Yes, we reached an Ulster Final, but would we have reached an Ulster Final had we drawn Tyrone or Donegal in the first round?
We beat a poor and ageing Monaghan Team, and it took two attempts to beat an Armagh team who had played Division 3 football. Then came the Ulster Final and the Qualifier, and to say we were blown away in both matches would be a massive understatement. Donegal and Tyrone were levels above us.

So in essence, I would say we are a level 3 team. Level 2 consists of the likes of Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo, Kerry, Galway, Cork, Roscommon etc and level 1 is Dublin. Cavan need to get to level 3 but after the last two matches, we are nowhere near it. One thing we learned this year is that the National League is certainly no indication of Championship form.
I think that Cavan supporters felt that Donegal and Tyrone were certainly beatable having watched both in the National League, yes Tyrone beat Dublin and Donegal got promoted but we thought we could match them. Both had unconvincing wins in their initial championship matches and then we then beat Monaghan and Armagh and there was a feeling we could beat both. But then Donegal and Tyrone suddenly upped the level and that was it, blew us away.

So looking forward, can the likes of Mackey, McKiernan, McVeety, Moynagh, Clarke etc get to the level that Donegal and Tyrone are. Lets not forget, these lads are not debutantes, they've been around a very long time now and year after year they have failed to step up to the next level when it counted. My feeling is that Mickey needs to start with the young lads coming through, lads over 20, he needs to start bringing them in now and start working with them and forget about the older ones if he wants to bring Cavan forward.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 11/07/2019 13:45:05    2209496

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Some good points there and I agree that the manager needs time, but time spent doing what is the big question.
In the overall scheme of things, many people will say that Cavan improved this year, but did they really?
Yes, we reached an Ulster Final, but would we have reached an Ulster Final had we drawn Tyrone or Donegal in the first round?
We beat a poor and ageing Monaghan Team, and it took two attempts to beat an Armagh team who had played Division 3 football. Then came the Ulster Final and the Qualifier, and to say we were blown away in both matches would be a massive understatement. Donegal and Tyrone were levels above us.

So in essence, I would say we are a level 3 team. Level 2 consists of the likes of Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo, Kerry, Galway, Cork, Roscommon etc and level 1 is Dublin. Cavan need to get to level 3 but after the last two matches, we are nowhere near it. One thing we learned this year is that the National League is certainly no indication of Championship form.
I think that Cavan supporters felt that Donegal and Tyrone were certainly beatable having watched both in the National League, yes Tyrone beat Dublin and Donegal got promoted but we thought we could match them. Both had unconvincing wins in their initial championship matches and then we then beat Monaghan and Armagh and there was a feeling we could beat both. But then Donegal and Tyrone suddenly upped the level and that was it, blew us away.

So looking forward, can the likes of Mackey, McKiernan, McVeety, Moynagh, Clarke etc get to the level that Donegal and Tyrone are. Lets not forget, these lads are not debutantes, they've been around a very long time now and year after year they have failed to step up to the next level when it counted. My feeling is that Mickey needs to start with the young lads coming through, lads over 20, he needs to start bringing them in now and start working with them and forget about the older ones if he wants to bring Cavan forward."
The lads you have mentioned have been the backbone of the Cavan Team this past 7/8 years yet Donegal and Tyrone are ahead of us in terms of development.
How does this work out ? Because there are very few of Donegals 2012 All Ireland winning team still involved.
Both these teams seem to have the knack of blending a few players each year. We don't seem to be able to do that.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 11/07/2019 15:50:16    2209560

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "The lads you have mentioned have been the backbone of the Cavan Team this past 7/8 years yet Donegal and Tyrone are ahead of us in terms of development.
How does this work out ? Because there are very few of Donegals 2012 All Ireland winning team still involved.
Both these teams seem to have the knack of blending a few players each year. We don't seem to be able to do that."
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Cavanblueman::: My feeling is that Mickey needs to start with the young lads coming through, lads over 20, he needs to start bringing them in now and start working with them and forget about the older ones if he wants to bring Cavan forward."
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You say bring in the young lads that are there and work on them what about the young lads out there that never get a sniff.

If the present manager is allowed to stay on which I expect that he will he has to get out there on his own and watch the potential. But I ask will he do that I expect it will no different this time next year probably worse that it is today.

The top notches could not wait to get rid of the last manager well at least he took Tyrone to three points and was left down by some of players mention above on the day. They know who they are.

Today Cavan are no where as good as they were with the previous manager I don't blame the present manager for that BUT questions have to be asked from those around him.

Lets see what next January brings us if the same players an early end to the season once again.

Looking through the posts since I logged out I see a few are seeing things the way I have mentioned thats a plus..

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4495 - 11/07/2019 17:14:12    2209601

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "The lads you have mentioned have been the backbone of the Cavan Team this past 7/8 years yet Donegal and Tyrone are ahead of us in terms of development.
How does this work out ? Because there are very few of Donegals 2012 All Ireland winning team still involved.
Both these teams seem to have the knack of blending a few players each year. We don't seem to be able to do that."
Disagree entirely
Neil McGee, Paddy McGrath, Murphy, McBrearty, Leo McCloone and Frank McGlynn all played in 2012
A strong set of 6 players and still fairly central to Donegal's game plan. More than 1/3 of the team from 7 years ago.

The simple problem is Cavan haven't had players as good as these. A lot of talk about what is it, 70 players passing through the panel in recent years. As if the high turnover is the issue. None of the 70 would have started for Donegal ahead of these lads in their prime. High turnover is not the problem, it is a symptom of a lack of real quality.

And if anyone mentions the U21s, nearly a decade on, lord help us all...

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 427 - 11/07/2019 17:29:00    2209607

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