Meath Forum

Pairc Tailteann

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Replying To 11jm11:  "Is there a need for a stadium of that size in navan? How often will it be full? Once a year? It's a terrible idea if you ask me, the cost is huge and will ultimately be covered by the clubs. Far better to spend this money on coaching and club facilities."
Careful now, I've been making this point since the forum started but we've a lot of Celtic Tiger dreamers here.

Again, let's get as many highly trained and highly motivated coaches into the county as possible to improve youngsters in clubs and schools.

Let's finish Dunganny once and for all.

Let's also finance a few select clubs in different regions of the county with sports air domes that can be used by various teams in each respective region for winter training. See DKIT except no need to be as large, just needs to cover a pitch.

All of the above is a better use of resources than splurging millions on a stadium that is so rarely full.

If the GAA want Navan to be Leinster's second stadium then let THEM pay for it. They've plenty of money.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1008 - 05/02/2020 12:04:13    2265330

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Careful now, I've been making this point since the forum started but we've a lot of Celtic Tiger dreamers here.

Again, let's get as many highly trained and highly motivated coaches into the county as possible to improve youngsters in clubs and schools.

Let's finish Dunganny once and for all.

Let's also finance a few select clubs in different regions of the county with sports air domes that can be used by various teams in each respective region for winter training. See DKIT except no need to be as large, just needs to cover a pitch.

All of the above is a better use of resources than splurging millions on a stadium that is so rarely full.

If the GAA want Navan to be Leinster's second stadium then let THEM pay for it. They've plenty of money."
We'll capacity wise it won't be the second largest as O'Moore Park and Nowlan Park would be bigger with around 25K capacities, we must remember that a functioning PT can be a source of finance to help fund further works in Dunganny and the like, more games and other events of a suitable nature will lead to increased revenue, the old place certainly isn't going to make any money as it stands. I don't believe we will ever see 4 stands in PT but having two stands either side would be a step up from most grounds and that coupled with the geographical location would make us a suitable venue for a lot of games just as O'Moore Park and O'Connor Park are now. The county aren't going to go into serious hoc over this I think they have shown that already, we will only see work as money allows and I don't fear for any extra strain on clubs over this from what I see

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 05/02/2020 12:36:01    2265339

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I think the size they're aiming for is about right. 20'000 is the most you'd get for a big qualifier or Super 8 game in Meath. All seater stadia also tend to be more compact and don't look as barren when you've a smaller crowd in attendance.

In the boom times Munster and Connacht counties went crazy building 35'000+ concrete cathedrals which are filled at most once a decade. Thankfully counties are aiming more realistic these days.

As you say, price is a big factor. If €12 Million gets us a new stand, floodlights and moving the pitch, I wouldn't like to see the cost for a new main stand, and two smaller stands at the ends. Hopefully the minister for sport in 5 years time accidentally adds a zero to our grant and we won't need to crucify the clubs to fund the next phase.

We can't afford to do nothing though, as Páirc Tailteann is falling apart around us. Would anyone say we should have saved our money and not developed Dunganny, and stayed using the shipping containers as dressing rooms? I won't quite go full Cork and say We DESERVE a new stadium, and I don't care who pays for it, but redeveloping Páirc Tailteann is the right thing to do."
I for one am not doubting the need to redevelop the current stand, that is a must for me. The grass bank on either end is a nice to have and could be done in section moving forward. That is why i think the current stand should be the first to be done, in the case where no more money can be raised through whatever means, then the we have a stadium/stand that is fit and functionality. The talk about media facilities and dressing rooms is not an issue for me, a few containers/cabin packs on the O mahonys end would suffice for the 1/2 that the stand would be out of commission.

juicy (Meath) - Posts: 386 - 05/02/2020 12:44:43    2265341

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The place as it currently stands is a disgrace, it simply has to be developed. while in an ideal world I would leave the current terrace until last, the fact is that the pitch has to move and with the installation of new lights etc that is what has to happen. current phase will cost €11m, by my reading the county board are looking to get up on 80% of that from grants from various sources. The rest is doable, I think that fundraising is far more likely to be successful when the work has commenced. The talk has gone on for long enough. I can see a stage where both sides are developed and to maybe one of the banks, with the other left flat. if that happens then fair enough. if the capacity can be up at around 15000 then so be it. But you have to show some ambition. I remember the same crap being talked about Dunganny but it has been a huge success, you can see it in the underage teams.

longroadback (Meath) - Posts: 303 - 05/02/2020 15:31:58    2265400

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Have I to go to Specsavers or did I see our ex chairman O Halloran as part of the handing over of keys ceremony in Pairc Tailteann?

Greensheen (Meath) - Posts: 40 - 11/02/2020 00:33:35    2266961

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Replying To Greensheen:  "Have I to go to Specsavers or did I see our ex chairman O Halloran as part of the handing over of keys ceremony in Pairc Tailteann?"
I didn't realise there was a presentation on Saturday but he sold the winning ticket for the last draw so it's possible that he could even have accepted it on behalf of the winner who was from Westmeath?

jackhackett (Meath) - Posts: 772 - 11/02/2020 12:46:12    2267040

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Replying To longroadback:  "The place as it currently stands is a disgrace, it simply has to be developed. while in an ideal world I would leave the current terrace until last, the fact is that the pitch has to move and with the installation of new lights etc that is what has to happen. current phase will cost €11m, by my reading the county board are looking to get up on 80% of that from grants from various sources. The rest is doable, I think that fundraising is far more likely to be successful when the work has commenced. The talk has gone on for long enough. I can see a stage where both sides are developed and to maybe one of the banks, with the other left flat. if that happens then fair enough. if the capacity can be up at around 15000 then so be it. But you have to show some ambition. I remember the same crap being talked about Dunganny but it has been a huge success, you can see it in the underage teams."
Why move the pitch its one best in ireland don't makesense to dig it up.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 306 - 11/02/2020 19:02:24    2267132

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Why move the pitch its one best in ireland don't makesense to dig it up."
Not sure what he means by saying the pitch is being moved as movement can only be marginal unless the length is being reduced to 90m!. I could see the pitch being extended to full length (plus 5m) and maybe width to full width (plus 2m)-all approx. Possibly there will be a 5m clearance all round to fencing perimeter-all guessing!, but wish the development success and overdue for such a good location

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2224 - 11/02/2020 21:43:15    2267173

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Why in the local paper is it stating 20/30 years for completion of pairxc tailteann.has seamus kenny not stated the opposite.im confused what is goin to happen.??

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 306 - 01/03/2020 08:52:56    2271024

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Days like yesterday show exactly why we need more covered accommodation in Navan, some people got an awful drenching in that torrential shower that landed in the second half and the cover provided by the existing stand really is insufficient, that new stand really can't come quick enough.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 02/03/2020 04:22:42    2271487

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Why in the local paper is it stating 20/30 years for completion of pairxc tailteann.has seamus kenny not stated the opposite.im confused what is goin to happen.??"
I think they are confused as well. No plan and no money makes everyone confused. Why they are hell bent on building a monstrosity of a stadium is beyond me.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 569 - 02/03/2020 09:09:50    2271510

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Although the Corona virus is absolutely horrendous for our Country, the timing took pressure of the County Board who were under severe pressure and were going to either have to announce scaling back of the Pairc Tailtean project big time or forget it all together. Before the Covid-19 I didn't think there wasn't a hope of the development going ahead as planned or maybe at all.
The sad reality is (unless common sense prevails and the development committee do a u turn) we will be very lucky to get any work done in Pairc Tailteann (Corona Virus or no Corona virus). All we know for sure and what is very clear for a long time is that we have spent €700,000 on design fees.
Liam Mulvihill may be correct about the project taking up to 30 years to complete, but what he did not mention and which is more critical, is that if the stadium went ahead the way the development committee were proposing it would never happen.
It is so frustrating the way the fundraising and planning for Pairc Tailtean were done. Croke Park should have provided professional technical advice to the Meath County Board from the projects infancy.
The time we now have will give time for the development committee to do an in-depth review of the existing plans and phasing and for reality and commonsense to come to the fore and when health restrictions allow, that they present a viable plan for Pairc Tailtean.
We all hope whatever happens that we will be back soon playing for and cheering on our teams in Pairc Tailtean and every other club & county ground in the Country.
Be safe everyone. Come on the Royal's!

madmeath (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 19/03/2020 13:45:21    2274091

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Replying To madmeath:  "Although the Corona virus is absolutely horrendous for our Country, the timing took pressure of the County Board who were under severe pressure and were going to either have to announce scaling back of the Pairc Tailtean project big time or forget it all together. Before the Covid-19 I didn't think there wasn't a hope of the development going ahead as planned or maybe at all.
The sad reality is (unless common sense prevails and the development committee do a u turn) we will be very lucky to get any work done in Pairc Tailteann (Corona Virus or no Corona virus). All we know for sure and what is very clear for a long time is that we have spent €700,000 on design fees.
Liam Mulvihill may be correct about the project taking up to 30 years to complete, but what he did not mention and which is more critical, is that if the stadium went ahead the way the development committee were proposing it would never happen.
It is so frustrating the way the fundraising and planning for Pairc Tailtean were done. Croke Park should have provided professional technical advice to the Meath County Board from the projects infancy.
The time we now have will give time for the development committee to do an in-depth review of the existing plans and phasing and for reality and commonsense to come to the fore and when health restrictions allow, that they present a viable plan for Pairc Tailtean.
We all hope whatever happens that we will be back soon playing for and cheering on our teams in Pairc Tailtean and every other club & county ground in the Country.
Be safe everyone. Come on the Royal's!"
Explain

1) Why are the county board under pressure to scale back or even abandon the project?

2) "Liam Mulvihill may be correct about the project taking up to 30 years to complete, but what he did not mention and which is more critical, is that if the stadium went ahead the way the development committee were proposing it would never happen".
Explain this sentence please

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 19/03/2020 22:33:57    2274130

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Replying To Richieq:  "Explain

1) Why are the county board under pressure to scale back or even abandon the project?

2) "Liam Mulvihill may be correct about the project taking up to 30 years to complete, but what he did not mention and which is more critical, is that if the stadium went ahead the way the development committee were proposing it would never happen".
Explain this sentence please"
Richieq the answer to both questions are similar and mainly include the same issues, wrong phasing of development, lack of forward planning, wrong design which accommodates others rather than Meath GAA, unaffordable and no evidence of actual real costings, giving away land for free in Pairc Tailtean and lack of relevant expertise making decisions.
1. As more of the County Board delegates studied the plans, they have begun to realize, what was actually contained in the proposals for the first phase of the project on the Commons Road side (existing terrace) and all the complications, it then became apparent what Meath GAA were really getting involved in and the utter madness of what they are doing. Support for the proposal for the proposed works (to be phase 1) on that side of the ground began to wane. Nobody should comment negatively on my observation until they study the drawings in detail as per Grant of Permission, unfortunately they are not available on the Meath GAA website but they should be available for all to see and Meath GAA should facilitate this on their website.
2. The very simple answer is the numbers don't add up (view the plans) and the approach been taken is totally wrong. Does anyone really think that Croke Park will hand over millions of Euros to the Meath County Board without studying the proposals in depth themselves having being caught out bad with Pairc Ui Caoimh and especially after our big house fundraiser for the development only raised one third of the design fees for the project( never mind no money at all raised for the project it self) As Croke Park assess in detail the viability of the Commons Road side proposal and all the ancillary issues associated with it, it will be clear to all it is not a runner and a change of plan will be required. Much smaller (population) counties have made four times as much profit on their house draws.
As I said already, there is loads of time now and people have loads of spare time on their hands to get it right this time. But Meath GAA must not be afraid to ask Croke Park for expert advice.
It would not be right to get into a blame game at this stage as the plans were very ambitious but we are where we are now and we really have to avail of the Government grants and Croke Park money and get at least one new stand and demolish the existing stand. If we even get to do that at this stage it will be amazing.
One thing we can't do is continue to stick our heads in the sand.
Very costly mistakes have been made but we must learn from them and put policies in place to make sure they are not repeated.
On the money side don't forget the County Board sought approval from delegates to spend €300,000 for design fees and eventually ended up spending €700,000 on design fees. So before we even put a shovel into the ground we have gone more over by more than double.
There is absolutely no way overruns can continue, now that we come to the expensive part, the build.

madmeath (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 20/03/2020 16:12:03    2274172

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To develop the facility we need a realistic plan which includes terraces at both ends. We also need money and a plan needs to be developed where money raised goes 100% towards development (like buying seats etc). We have in our country many examples of squandering money and the children's hospital is a very good example.

We need to get side fully covered which would mean the facility would seat twice the existing covered seats. We then when money becomes available commence the second side line stand cover. It would be a total waste of resources and money to cover both ends. The expertise should be obtained from similar experiences else where. Cork aided by Croke Park demonstrates most of what you do not do unless you want to waste money. Unfortunately there is nobody within the development committee with any worthwhile experience for this project as demonstrated by the plan/cost/raising of finance for project- I apologise if I am correct in that statement!.

Now the most important thing at this time is to stay safe, avoid contact where possible at all times to protect yourself and many others you could potentially infect- social distancing is very important and we all young and old have a role. By doing the aforementioned we will also protect our health care workers and many other front line workers that we rely on at this time. - follow the advice given by HSE closely.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2224 - 22/03/2020 11:11:53    2274285

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Replying To browncows:  "To develop the facility we need a realistic plan which includes terraces at both ends. We also need money and a plan needs to be developed where money raised goes 100% towards development (like buying seats etc). We have in our country many examples of squandering money and the children's hospital is a very good example.

We need to get side fully covered which would mean the facility would seat twice the existing covered seats. We then when money becomes available commence the second side line stand cover. It would be a total waste of resources and money to cover both ends. The expertise should be obtained from similar experiences else where. Cork aided by Croke Park demonstrates most of what you do not do unless you want to waste money. Unfortunately there is nobody within the development committee with any worthwhile experience for this project as demonstrated by the plan/cost/raising of finance for project- I apologise if I am correct in that statement!.

Now the most important thing at this time is to stay safe, avoid contact where possible at all times to protect yourself and many others you could potentially infect- social distancing is very important and we all young and old have a role. By doing the aforementioned we will also protect our health care workers and many other front line workers that we rely on at this time. - follow the advice given by HSE closely."
Stay safe. My old sparring partner

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17267 - 23/03/2020 11:01:54    2274353

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Stay safe. My old sparring partner"
There are a number construction engineering firms with Meath men at the helm! Would it be an idea to ask them onto a committee to oversea this project?
I'd say they would ensure best price, best design and best build!
They should certainly be consulted!

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 320 - 24/03/2020 12:58:50    2274460

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It should be remembered that this project was put top of the GAA's list of projects to the LSSIF, it was top of the list as they were impressed with the feasibility studies and the overall plan and they see PT as a template for future developments going forward. This is why it got the 3rd biggest allocation in the country from that fund, a lot of hard work over 4-5 years has gone into this project and clubs have supported it all the way as have Croke Park. If adequate funding to match the LSSIF funding comes from Leinster and Central Council then phase 1 of the development could be achieved by costing Meath GAA very little in terms of the size of what is being done in phase 1. I don't see the reason for this recent negativity and being honest it's not backed up by any factual evidence

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 25/03/2020 16:31:25    2274635

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This project has been managed from start to finish and I think the county board deserve huge praise for it. We can all say we would have done things differently or went down another path.
A lot of politics are at play and also we have a lot of people in our GAA community who work in the construction sector and have vested interests.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 406 - 25/03/2020 17:10:36    2274641

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Just a question for everyone, the insurance has been suspended, all facilities are closed. Does this mean that the maintenance has to stop, grass cutting ect. If there's no insurance then you're not covered in case of an accident.

latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 328 - 27/03/2020 17:19:45    2274843

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