Meath Forum

Pairc Tailteann

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Replying To Analyst:  "Let me explain
€6,000,000 ÷ 500,000 =12
Now it took 2 years to get to the €500,000 so 12 x 2 =24

Have you heard the phrase comparing apples with oranges ?
Slane bypass is a nra project on the basis of 23 people being killed , hardly comparable.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the pitch in Navan, Nothing wrong with Terrace, the only issues are the stand which needs to be completely revamped with fit for purpose dressing rooms, showers etc and floodlights restored. Other works are unnecessary and money could be spent on a lot more wisely."
I agree with you there. When money is tight you should not destroy something that is functional. The terrace is currently the only part of the stadium that meets current criteria so it should be left as it is and get on with the stand with dressing rooms etc and the lights. If matters improve then the ends should be worked on. It is very easy to spend other people's money and then come crying for more.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 787 - 12/01/2020 14:52:41    2259089

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Lads the stand badly needs to be knocked and a new one built, this is a matter of urgency.

The grass banks are unsightly and also need to be done, not as urgent as the stand but they cannot be ignored. The very fact that they are still there is an indictment of the complacency and incompetence of our county boards going back decades.

The terrace is fine for now, it serves a purpose but the plans to replace it should be seen through before it becomes a problem.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/01/2020 17:03:29    2259126

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Replying To Htaem:  "Lads the stand badly needs to be knocked and a new one built, this is a matter of urgency.

The grass banks are unsightly and also need to be done, not as urgent as the stand but they cannot be ignored. The very fact that they are still there is an indictment of the complacency and incompetence of our county boards going back decades.

The terrace is fine for now, it serves a purpose but the plans to replace it should be seen through before it becomes a problem."
I believe the reason for doing the terrace first is for 2 reasons. 1. It means we can still play there/have club championship there. Also and crucially it's to realign the pitch. Right now there is way more space owned by Meath GAA behind the stand side. I think they are going realign the pitch and have it much closer to the stand (knocking the concrete seating below the current covered stand). The new stand has a bigger footprint than current terrace (just doing off the digital image produced). My two main concerns, Originally we are building a 4,000 stand. Firstly, I seen somewhere (I think the chronicle) that it was going to be 3,000 covered. Why are 1,000 uncovered. That seems idiotic. Secondly the end plan is for a 7,000 stand. How will we make it from a 4,000 seater with 1,000 covered to 7,000 all covered

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 889 - 12/01/2020 17:41:28    2259136

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "I believe the reason for doing the terrace first is for 2 reasons. 1. It means we can still play there/have club championship there. Also and crucially it's to realign the pitch. Right now there is way more space owned by Meath GAA behind the stand side. I think they are going realign the pitch and have it much closer to the stand (knocking the concrete seating below the current covered stand). The new stand has a bigger footprint than current terrace (just doing off the digital image produced). My two main concerns, Originally we are building a 4,000 stand. Firstly, I seen somewhere (I think the chronicle) that it was going to be 3,000 covered. Why are 1,000 uncovered. That seems idiotic. Secondly the end plan is for a 7,000 stand. How will we make it from a 4,000 seater with 1,000 covered to 7,000 all covered"
Well look in fairness I'm not going to criticize the current administration as I believe the problems with PT pre-dates many of them. Also I haven't read the plans inside out so I'm not exactly sure what the plans are stage by stage, is there a link anywhere for that?

The main thing for me is that we commit 100% to full re-development, doesn't matter if it takes 10 years, just commit and get it done.

These projects aren't easy and funding is always a struggle but I where there's a will there's a way, we can do it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/01/2020 18:33:40    2259164

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "I believe the reason for doing the terrace first is for 2 reasons. 1. It means we can still play there/have club championship there. Also and crucially it's to realign the pitch. Right now there is way more space owned by Meath GAA behind the stand side. I think they are going realign the pitch and have it much closer to the stand (knocking the concrete seating below the current covered stand). The new stand has a bigger footprint than current terrace (just doing off the digital image produced). My two main concerns, Originally we are building a 4,000 stand. Firstly, I seen somewhere (I think the chronicle) that it was going to be 3,000 covered. Why are 1,000 uncovered. That seems idiotic. Secondly the end plan is for a 7,000 stand. How will we make it from a 4,000 seater with 1,000 covered to 7,000 all covered"
If they go with 4000 seats first I imagine some of the seats extending to either side may not have full cover. One would think the stand would be built from the centre line out towards the goal ends and then further extended at each end to 7000 when finances allow. It would be very beneficial I think if Croke Park and Leinster came up with the money that would allow for the full 7000 stand to be built in one go, they managed it in Portlaoise and Tullamore, albeit the stand planned in Navan is of a higher spec, and I really think the county board should push for this so that one side is fully completed and allow the focus of phase 2 to fully concentrate on the existing stand instead of extending the new stand on the terrace side. I heard Seamus Kenny on LMFM Sunday explain the rationale behind starting on the terrace side first which made sense due to essentially having to shut PT for 18-24 months if the existing stand was knocked first as bad and all as it is without seats, a roof and the facilities within the stand PT can't really function and he expects meetings with Croke Park to happen quite quickly in the coming weeks, he also stated Meath sought 70% funding from government which would have equated to over €8 million, be very interesting to see how those meetings with Croke Park pan out in the coming weeks but it is happening and if all goes well work could start by late summer

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 13/01/2020 02:46:29    2259275

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Replying To Htaem:  "Well look in fairness I'm not going to criticize the current administration as I believe the problems with PT pre-dates many of them. Also I haven't read the plans inside out so I'm not exactly sure what the plans are stage by stage, is there a link anywhere for that?

The main thing for me is that we commit 100% to full re-development, doesn't matter if it takes 10 years, just commit and get it done.

These projects aren't easy and funding is always a struggle but I where there's a will there's a way, we can do it."
I agree with that too. And I actually agree with the All seater model too. This issue I have is there isn't full in depth plans. https://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/gaa/articles/2020/01/10/4184255-breaking-pairc-tailteann-development-receives-massive-funding-boost/.
It says here "the funding going towards a 4,000 seat stand, (3000 covered). If the plan is to get a 21,000 all seater (going off drawings all covered) stadium why are we building only a 4,000 seater on one side and why are there 1,000 uncovered. I'd love to see the plan to then further turn this into a 7,000 covered stand

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 889 - 13/01/2020 08:08:37    2259285

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "I agree with that too. And I actually agree with the All seater model too. This issue I have is there isn't full in depth plans. https://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/gaa/articles/2020/01/10/4184255-breaking-pairc-tailteann-development-receives-massive-funding-boost/.
It says here "the funding going towards a 4,000 seat stand, (3000 covered). If the plan is to get a 21,000 all seater (going off drawings all covered) stadium why are we building only a 4,000 seater on one side and why are there 1,000 uncovered. I'd love to see the plan to then further turn this into a 7,000 covered stand"
Fair point. Someone had said before that it won't be the completed stand until it swoops around and that's where the extra seats come in. Not saying that's what will happen. Just what I heard.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17267 - 13/01/2020 19:24:12    2259500

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So the house draw made €250'000, bring honest that's a poor return for a draw that contained three houses and cash prizes, more professionalism was needed in organising and presenting this draw, it just didn't seem to grab people's attention as it should of. Personally I think thee needs to be more of PR work put into this job, a lot of people don't know enough detail about what's being planned and aren't fully getting behind it, time to ramp up what the huge benefits of this redevelopment are and why it's so worth doing, people must be more engaged in all this.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 04/02/2020 13:02:09    2265078

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People might blame the PR but the draws have been plugged everywhere for the last 2 years. I was getting sick of it. It was advertised in Meath, Leinster and AI match programmes, pitch advertising hoardings, the Páirc Tailteann scoreboard, half time draws, PA announcements at games, it's been front of the Meath GAA website, on the chronicle, regularly posted about on their instagram and twitter pages etc.

If you looked at anything involved with Meath GAA you saw ads for the draws. You can lead a horse to water....

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1430 - 04/02/2020 13:47:57    2265101

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I think serious questions need to be asked surrounding the decision to develop the current terrace first given the cost of the over all project and the amount of money that will need to be raised/borrowed. The current stand is the only part of the stadium which is unsuitable at present. I would take the hard ship for the year or 2 in order for it to be done.

A couple of 'bucket' seats could be installed on the terrace for duration of the construction if people are giving out about having to stand.

Does anyone know if the government grant is to cover the whole stadium or is it only for the 1st phase? As things stand,
-Government 6.8m
-Leinster Council 1m
- Croke Park 3m
a total of say 11m for a project which is due to cost 30m in total (i believe). As such there is a 19m hole to be filled from somewhere. If we this figure are for the 1st phase which mentions 13m there is still a 2m shortfall. And given that there is no money in the bank according to the convention (my understanding) there is some serious money to be gathered. In terms of stadium rights this at a push would bring in 300k max over 5 year agreement i.e. 60k per yr. And the fundraisers that are mentioned are generally considered as day to day running of the county teams rather than for capital investments there is alot of consideration which needs to be done to determine the best way to proceed with the process.

juicy (Meath) - Posts: 386 - 04/02/2020 14:01:16    2265105

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How many can the current seated stand hold?

Mfs (Mayo) - Posts: 224 - 04/02/2020 16:20:18    2265135

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Replying To Mfs:  "How many can the current seated stand hold?"
Covered capacity around 2'500

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 04/02/2020 16:47:49    2265142

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Replying To juicy:  "I think serious questions need to be asked surrounding the decision to develop the current terrace first given the cost of the over all project and the amount of money that will need to be raised/borrowed. The current stand is the only part of the stadium which is unsuitable at present. I would take the hard ship for the year or 2 in order for it to be done.

A couple of 'bucket' seats could be installed on the terrace for duration of the construction if people are giving out about having to stand.

Does anyone know if the government grant is to cover the whole stadium or is it only for the 1st phase? As things stand,
-Government 6.8m
-Leinster Council 1m
- Croke Park 3m
a total of say 11m for a project which is due to cost 30m in total (i believe). As such there is a 19m hole to be filled from somewhere. If we this figure are for the 1st phase which mentions 13m there is still a 2m shortfall. And given that there is no money in the bank according to the convention (my understanding) there is some serious money to be gathered. In terms of stadium rights this at a push would bring in 300k max over 5 year agreement i.e. 60k per yr. And the fundraisers that are mentioned are generally considered as day to day running of the county teams rather than for capital investments there is alot of consideration which needs to be done to determine the best way to proceed with the process."
I believe the grant was for Phase 1, using PT without a stand or it's facilities wasn't thought feasible as you would also be spending money on temporary facilities on top of the actual build, Phase 1 is coming in just under €12 million and involves pitch work, floodlights and I think some repair works to the existing stand and some terracing somewhere

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 04/02/2020 16:51:49    2265143

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Replying To juicy:  "I think serious questions need to be asked surrounding the decision to develop the current terrace first given the cost of the over all project and the amount of money that will need to be raised/borrowed. The current stand is the only part of the stadium which is unsuitable at present. I would take the hard ship for the year or 2 in order for it to be done.

A couple of 'bucket' seats could be installed on the terrace for duration of the construction if people are giving out about having to stand.

Does anyone know if the government grant is to cover the whole stadium or is it only for the 1st phase? As things stand,
-Government 6.8m
-Leinster Council 1m
- Croke Park 3m
a total of say 11m for a project which is due to cost 30m in total (i believe). As such there is a 19m hole to be filled from somewhere. If we this figure are for the 1st phase which mentions 13m there is still a 2m shortfall. And given that there is no money in the bank according to the convention (my understanding) there is some serious money to be gathered. In terms of stadium rights this at a push would bring in 300k max over 5 year agreement i.e. 60k per yr. And the fundraisers that are mentioned are generally considered as day to day running of the county teams rather than for capital investments there is alot of consideration which needs to be done to determine the best way to proceed with the process."
The lack of seats isn't the issue. If we do the stand first then we can't play games in Pairc Tailteann. 1. There'd be no dressing rooms. 2. There'd be no media facilities. 3. The stand has asbestos on the roof so it would probably a slow enough process knocking it and putting a new one. Also you said the stands is the only unsuitable part of the stadium. Surely the two ends behind each goal aren't suitable considering they aren't open!

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 889 - 04/02/2020 16:53:50    2265144

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "People might blame the PR but the draws have been plugged everywhere for the last 2 years. I was getting sick of it. It was advertised in Meath, Leinster and AI match programmes, pitch advertising hoardings, the Páirc Tailteann scoreboard, half time draws, PA announcements at games, it's been front of the Meath GAA website, on the chronicle, regularly posted about on their instagram and twitter pages etc.

If you looked at anything involved with Meath GAA you saw ads for the draws. You can lead a horse to water...."
That's true I meant more info on the actual redevelopment itself, I've ad coated a dedicated website or social media pages devoted to the project to give the whole background and show the work that has gone into this and list the many benefits of it, plans and drawings should be available as well as the costs and projected timeframes of each phase, people should be fully informed when asking to back a project like this with their hard earned cash, the thing must be sold and so far I think it could have been sold better, advertising tickets is one thing but the whole project needs advertising

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 04/02/2020 16:55:27    2265145

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Phase One will re-orientate the pitch, floodlight it and bring in a new 4,000 seater stand.

By shutting off the terrace the stadium remains open and usable. We need to look beyond what is functional now and look to what can be done which requires the least resources and works so a stand can be built.

The monies gathered as far as I am aware related to Phase One the subsequent phases will result in more funds being drawn down. We will need to spend the funds before another application can be made. According to that article 8 million was applied for and 6.2 was recieved. Next time further cash may be given.

Who knows maybe this election could end the funds on sports projects!

Between the Sports Grant, Central Council, and Leinster Council if Meath only have to spend €1 million (which will likely be received from naming rights and other initiatives) it would be good going.

Thereafter the other stands will come when the money is available.

I personally think the House Draw didnt do so well because of the following reasons - house draws are played out with almost every county doing them; it was hammered home to Meath Gaels who are the same people who put their money into season tickets, match tickets, jerseys etc. I think outside the county there was little buy in.

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 752 - 04/02/2020 19:31:18    2265198

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Replying To Royalio11:  "Phase One will re-orientate the pitch, floodlight it and bring in a new 4,000 seater stand.

By shutting off the terrace the stadium remains open and usable. We need to look beyond what is functional now and look to what can be done which requires the least resources and works so a stand can be built.

The monies gathered as far as I am aware related to Phase One the subsequent phases will result in more funds being drawn down. We will need to spend the funds before another application can be made. According to that article 8 million was applied for and 6.2 was recieved. Next time further cash may be given.

Who knows maybe this election could end the funds on sports projects!

Between the Sports Grant, Central Council, and Leinster Council if Meath only have to spend €1 million (which will likely be received from naming rights and other initiatives) it would be good going.

Thereafter the other stands will come when the money is available.

I personally think the House Draw didnt do so well because of the following reasons - house draws are played out with almost every county doing them; it was hammered home to Meath Gaels who are the same people who put their money into season tickets, match tickets, jerseys etc. I think outside the county there was little buy in."
I agree house draws are being overplayed and being honest in a county like Meath where we have a lot of "new population" selling tickets for Meath GAA to rebuild PT was always going to be a bit more difficult than counties like Roscommon who have a more native population. Fundraisers of a more modest cost could yield a better return and a buy a brick or buy a seat campaign could certainly yield a decent return as of course should naming rights and increased advertising space around the ground. Once modern and functional PT will be getting more use and other revenue streams must be looked at to maintain the pace of redevelopment, anyway no point shitting all over the house draw it still drew in 250K we didn't have before but it was a lot of work and in hindsight spreading it out over the course of a year or so didn't help either, if it was ran as one big super draw with maybe one house and more significant cash prizes it may of worked better, who knows?

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 04/02/2020 20:36:01    2265215

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Replying To Analyst:  "Will be a white elephant, if we stay long term in div 1 it will have a crowd 5 times a year. Dunganny crying out for additional pitches which apparently could be done for 300k or so. Almost 1 M spent on pairc tailteann already and nit a visible hands turn done, this is twice the proceds of house draw which took 2 years of fundraising. At that rate it will take 24 years to match the money allocated this week. By the way don't come back and say i am being negative, the word is realistic."
I apologise for my error above, i stated that the draw would take in €500,000, and was questioned as to the validity of this figure. Turns out i was way off the mark but in the other direction. The figures being thrown around are a throwback to the mid noughties when money was thriwn like confetti. We won't develop three additional badly needed pitches at Dunganny at an estimated cost of €300k but we are ok to blow 11 million.....god help clubs when the levies are dished out

Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1345 - 04/02/2020 22:37:51    2265244

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Is there a need for a stadium of that size in navan? How often will it be full? Once a year? It's a terrible idea if you ask me, the cost is huge and will ultimately be covered by the clubs. Far better to spend this money on coaching and club facilities.

11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 346 - 05/02/2020 09:09:58    2265270

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I think the size they're aiming for is about right. 20'000 is the most you'd get for a big qualifier or Super 8 game in Meath. All seater stadia also tend to be more compact and don't look as barren when you've a smaller crowd in attendance.

In the boom times Munster and Connacht counties went crazy building 35'000+ concrete cathedrals which are filled at most once a decade. Thankfully counties are aiming more realistic these days.

As you say, price is a big factor. If €12 Million gets us a new stand, floodlights and moving the pitch, I wouldn't like to see the cost for a new main stand, and two smaller stands at the ends. Hopefully the minister for sport in 5 years time accidentally adds a zero to our grant and we won't need to crucify the clubs to fund the next phase.

We can't afford to do nothing though, as Páirc Tailteann is falling apart around us. Would anyone say we should have saved our money and not developed Dunganny, and stayed using the shipping containers as dressing rooms? I won't quite go full Cork and say We DESERVE a new stadium, and I don't care who pays for it, but redeveloping Páirc Tailteann is the right thing to do.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1430 - 05/02/2020 11:49:48    2265323

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