National Forum

Wexford Clubs In The Leinster Club Hurling Championship

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Replying To james2011:  "I'm not making it all about Rathnure or Oulart, what I'm saying is that proposals like this suit a one code club.

And I'm making the point that people at the moment are complaining about the hurling clubs not doing well and things have to change. But yet ignoring the football clubs doing well.

It just seems all the decisions made in the county are always suited for hurling with no regard for football.

The way it is at the moment gives the most competitive club championship we can have within the county."
But its football clubs pushing for a change! ACtually more football orientated clubs are pushing for it to change.

Football clubs have previously done well whilst playing alternate weeks albeit not always at senior level, just like now

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1498 - 15/11/2022 15:04:57    2447674

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Replying To james2011:  "do we want a club championship to suit all the players in the county and all the teams, over 140 teams, or do we want a championship to suit the 6 county champions in football in hurling to do well in Leinster? Considering 2 of the biggest supporters of the integrated season are Oulart and Rathnure, both of whom have struggled when other clubs have been able to concentrate on either hurling or football at one go, says it all.

The hurling clubs wanted hurling played first. Now that the co champions are losing out at provincial level there are calls to change it. So lets ignore the fact we have 2 football teams in Leinster semi finals, which I'd say has never happened."
Looks like I'm going to have to use that word "disingenuous" again. :)

You say: Now that the co champions are losing out at provincial level there are calls to change it.

In case you somehow hadn't noticed, the calls for change had started, and the relevant proposals were submitted, before Ferns and Oulart lost at the weekend. Even if both teams had won handsomely, the calls for change would still be there, and would still be due to be voted on next week.

Disingenuous to claim that Ferns and Oulart losing has led to these calls.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 15/11/2022 15:10:31    2447675

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Replying To james2011:  "I'm not making it all about Rathnure or Oulart, what I'm saying is that proposals like this suit a one code club.

And I'm making the point that people at the moment are complaining about the hurling clubs not doing well and things have to change. But yet ignoring the football clubs doing well.

It just seems all the decisions made in the county are always suited for hurling with no regard for football.

The way it is at the moment gives the most competitive club championship we can have within the county."
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but were you not one of the people complaining earlier this year that it was unfair that football wouldn't begin until the hurling was already over?

And by the way, would the fact that the football clubs are doing well not be an argument in favour of changing to alternate blocks, so that county semi-finals and finals of both codes are played in October, giving all the winners good championship experience in these conditions?

Far from ignoring the progress of the football teams, that would mean that anybody who feels change might benefit the hurling champions is actually paying close attention to how those football teams are doing now.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 15/11/2022 15:17:50    2447676

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Replying To tearintom:  "I think thats fair.

But the bigger shock in all honesty is Oulart losing and the fact is the team they played with has been involved in championship play offs etc only a few weeks ago compared to the 13 weeks in Wexford."
I think the bigger shock is they lost to the tier 3 chanpions in Dublin tbh

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 15/11/2022 16:21:25    2447679

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Replying To james2011:  "do we want a club championship to suit all the players in the county and all the teams, over 140 teams, or do we want a championship to suit the 6 county champions in football in hurling to do well in Leinster? Considering 2 of the biggest supporters of the integrated season are Oulart and Rathnure, both of whom have struggled when other clubs have been able to concentrate on either hurling or football at one go, says it all.

The hurling clubs wanted hurling played first. Now that the co champions are losing out at provincial level there are calls to change it. So lets ignore the fact we have 2 football teams in Leinster semi finals, which I'd say has never happened."
Yes we have teams left in leinster and good luck to them but it's bargain basement standard. I suppose we have to be greatful for small mercies in this county of ours at the moment.

Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 453 - 15/11/2022 16:40:44    2447680

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Have any of you asked yourselves what your priority is?
Is providing the best local championship the priority, or the 3 clubs who represent Wexford in the Leinster championships?
Because unless clubs choose to play one code (and I am no advocate of that) something has to give.
What will happen with alternate weekends is that hurling clubs will focus all their effort on hurling. Football clubs will still be complaining then.
Is it just the case that the Leinster championships have to be a sacrificial lamb, and that when all is said and done the provision of the best local championship has to be the #1 priority and sod them?

Also, who is this Pat Coady fella who has caused blood to boil? I had never even heard of him. What you often find, and I know this from playing Wicklow clubs in hurling tournaments back when is that counties with uncompetitive county teams only care about club teams and a victory over a "successful neighbour" means more to them? They only have 6 hurling clubs in the county so if they are county champions they should have a good few of the county team. I would pay him no heed.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1337 - 15/11/2022 16:58:21    2447682

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Have any of you asked yourselves what your priority is?
Is providing the best local championship the priority, or the 3 clubs who represent Wexford in the Leinster championships?
Because unless clubs choose to play one code (and I am no advocate of that) something has to give.
What will happen with alternate weekends is that hurling clubs will focus all their effort on hurling. Football clubs will still be complaining then.
Is it just the case that the Leinster championships have to be a sacrificial lamb, and that when all is said and done the provision of the best local championship has to be the #1 priority and sod them?

Also, who is this Pat Coady fella who has caused blood to boil? I had never even heard of him. What you often find, and I know this from playing Wicklow clubs in hurling tournaments back when is that counties with uncompetitive county teams only care about club teams and a victory over a "successful neighbour" means more to them? They only have 6 hurling clubs in the county so if they are county champions they should have a good few of the county team. I would pay him no heed."
Why would football clubs complain about hurling clubs focusing on hurling?

There was a motion raised where clubs were given the opportunity to sacrifice teams going on to leinster championships so as to have more time to complete our own championship and voted against it so if theres an appetite amongst clubs to take part in leinster championships then surely the best approach is to give both codes the best chance possible to be successful in that?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1498 - 15/11/2022 17:23:31    2447683

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Have any of you asked yourselves what your priority is?
Is providing the best local championship the priority, or the 3 clubs who represent Wexford in the Leinster championships?
Because unless clubs choose to play one code (and I am no advocate of that) something has to give.
What will happen with alternate weekends is that hurling clubs will focus all their effort on hurling. Football clubs will still be complaining then.
Is it just the case that the Leinster championships have to be a sacrificial lamb, and that when all is said and done the provision of the best local championship has to be the #1 priority and sod them?

Also, who is this Pat Coady fella who has caused blood to boil? I had never even heard of him. What you often find, and I know this from playing Wicklow clubs in hurling tournaments back when is that counties with uncompetitive county teams only care about club teams and a victory over a "successful neighbour" means more to them? They only have 6 hurling clubs in the county so if they are county champions they should have a good few of the county team. I would pay him no heed."
St. Mullins had five or six on the Carlow senior teams that played in the Joe McDonagh Cup this year. A fair sprinkling all right.

Pat Coady was a top hurler with St. Mulllins and Carlow for a good few years around 1990s and 2000s. The sort who'd probably have been a regular on the Kilkenny teams of that era if he'd been from just a few miles down the road.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 15/11/2022 18:15:15    2447695

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Replying To Finchfurlong996:  "Well if the county final was two/three weeks ago, do ya not think they'd be in a better position to beat St Mullins. Same last year with the Rapps, just lacked sharpness in there hurling to get over the line of a team they should be beating. Maybe there not good enough but at the very least, give our county champions the best chance of competing in Leinster. The one sport you cannot drop for a long period of time and expect to compete is hurling. It's needs changing badly."
It was a good match on Sunday, it's hard to look at the match and then say that Ferns lost because they lacked sharpness, they lost because St Mullins were just that little bit more efficient in front of goals, made better use of the sweeper (Hence Jack Kavanagh being the stand-out player), had more scoreable frees (Ferns actually out-scored St Mullins 1-09 to 1-08 from play but Marty Kavanagh got 0-11 from frees versus Ian Byrne's (Who was excellent on them in the second half) 0-08, plus St Mullins's half-back were able to dominate battles for possession against Ferns's half-forward line in a way that Ferns's half-back line couldn't against St Mullins's half-forward line.

Saying that Ferns should be beating St Mullins is disrespectful to Carlow hurling. I think there are about 9 hurling clubs in Carlow which is less than the amount of football clubs they have, hence their is a concentration of talent amongst the clubs (Lads from Clonegal and Kildavin would play with Ballinkillen in hurling). Then when you consider that St Mullins is situated near both Kilkenny and Wexford and that they are probably able to draw on hurlers outside of their own parish, they'd be much stronger than you'd think. Plus Carlow have been in the Liam McCarthy Cup a few times in the last few years, they're hardly pushovers.

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 491 - 15/11/2022 18:16:35    2447696

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Replying To Viking66:  "Great Post!!!"
Great Post and a tremendous piece of local Social History as well.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 15/11/2022 18:39:28    2447699

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Yes we have teams left in leinster and good luck to them but it's bargain basement standard. I suppose we have to be greatful for small mercies in this county of ours at the moment."
Bargain basement standard? wait until you see David Clifford kicking points for fun in the All Ireland Junior Football Final in Croke Park in a few weeks time, the greatest GAA player in the country at the moment.
If it is bargain basement standard why have we not won any All Ireland at intermediate or junior level? Maybe the Wexford club championships and the clubs are not that strong?
I am delighted to see Fethard, Adamstown and Horeswood still flying the Wexford flag at provincial levels all might I add playing with 95% of their squads made up by dual players.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 15/11/2022 18:46:24    2447701

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Replying To Finchfurlong996:  "Well if the county final was two/three weeks ago, do ya not think they'd be in a better position to beat St Mullins. Same last year with the Rapps, just lacked sharpness in there hurling to get over the line of a team they should be beating. Maybe there not good enough but at the very least, give our county champions the best chance of competing in Leinster. The one sport you cannot drop for a long period of time and expect to compete is hurling. It's needs changing badly."
Do you remember what the weather was like two or three weeks ago........we were washed out if it.

Dark, winter evenings........yeah I'd love to be heading over to the field.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 505 - 15/11/2022 18:56:34    2447702

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Replying To tearintom:  "But its football clubs pushing for a change! ACtually more football orientated clubs are pushing for it to change.

Football clubs have previously done well whilst playing alternate weeks albeit not always at senior level, just like now"
The way it has been going at underage in most of those clubs it's disrespectful to say football clubs when talking about Castletown, Gusserane, Horeswood, Kilanerin etc. All have made great efforts at hurling underage without the benefit of having many top level hurlers and former hurlers being members of the clubs to mentor the youngsters. And all have improved at adult level as a result. They are proper dual clubs with dual players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 15/11/2022 19:13:55    2447706

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "I think the bigger shock is they lost to the tier 3 chanpions in Dublin tbh"
The way Dublins championships are structured they have more senior teams. But their intermediate champions were still the lads who beat Oulart. But why are people so surprised at this? Yes Oulart were favourites but they have nobody currently on the senior intercounty panel except Shaun Murphy who was injured and Billy Dunne who I would have liked to see more of. They didn't play a competitive game of hurling in 13 weeks. They were away in Parnell Park which is often a difficult venue for away teams. It wasn't that much of a shock tbh.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 15/11/2022 19:27:49    2447708

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "I think the bigger shock is they lost to the tier 3 chanpions in Dublin tbh"
Yes Oulart losing the 17th best team in Dublin was quite a shock.

How did Oulart go to beating Tier 1 champions Cuala in 2015 to losing to the Tier 3 champions in 2022?

That is a massive drop in standard even allowing for any split season etc.

Even before the split season Ballyhale bet St Martins by 15pts in 2019, really one sided game.

Yet in 2019 Ballyhale bet the Clonkill by 8pts in the quarter final.

Our club hurling is not at a decent standard in my eyes.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 925 - 16/11/2022 08:16:06    2447717

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Replying To Viking66:  "The way it has been going at underage in most of those clubs it's disrespectful to say football clubs when talking about Castletown, Gusserane, Horeswood, Kilanerin etc. All have made great efforts at hurling underage without the benefit of having many top level hurlers and former hurlers being members of the clubs to mentor the youngsters. And all have improved at adult level as a result. They are proper dual clubs with dual players."
In fairness to the other lad, he did clarify by saying "more football orientated clubs". While it's true that the ones you mention have been making great progress in hurling, it's also true that over the years, they were more orientated towards football, and it's probably still their number one priority too.

For instance, Horeswood won Intermediate 'A' hurling, and are our sole representatives left in Leinster. I wish them well there. But if you told them at the start of the year that they'd reach both the Intermediate Football Final and the Intermediate 'A' Hurling Final, and they could choose themselves which they could win, I'd say they'd have opted for the football.

Anyway, unless we're all going to start using phrases like "clubs who traditionally have been more associated with football", I don't think there's any harm or disrespect intended by just using the shorter term "football clubs" instead.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 16/11/2022 10:05:24    2447725

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "In fairness to the other lad, he did clarify by saying "more football orientated clubs". While it's true that the ones you mention have been making great progress in hurling, it's also true that over the years, they were more orientated towards football, and it's probably still their number one priority too.

For instance, Horeswood won Intermediate 'A' hurling, and are our sole representatives left in Leinster. I wish them well there. But if you told them at the start of the year that they'd reach both the Intermediate Football Final and the Intermediate 'A' Hurling Final, and they could choose themselves which they could win, I'd say they'd have opted for the football.

Anyway, unless we're all going to start using phrases like "clubs who traditionally have been more associated with football", I don't think there's any harm or disrespect intended by just using the shorter term "football clubs" instead."
They are going to be Intermediate in both codes next year Pikeman. And honestly anyone I know from that club would be as happy winning the hurling title as they would be winning the football. As we would be also. They are a proper dual club. And obviously like everyone else in the county I wish them the best of luck in Leinster this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 16/11/2022 11:24:40    2447735

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Yes we have teams left in leinster and good luck to them but it's bargain basement standard. I suppose we have to be greatful for small mercies in this county of ours at the moment."
That's a bull**** statement when cushinstown got to the club all Ireland it was massive for the locality and in surrounding areas. Even winning Leinster and to be the first club from wexford to do it I football was massive. At the end of the day no matter what grade you are in you strive to be the best. Good luck to all wexford teams hopefully ye can bring home some silverware.

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 364 - 16/11/2022 11:29:20    2447738

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Replying To Viking66:  "They are going to be Intermediate in both codes next year Pikeman. And honestly anyone I know from that club would be as happy winning the hurling title as they would be winning the football. As we would be also. They are a proper dual club. And obviously like everyone else in the county I wish them the best of luck in Leinster this year."
I'm not for one second suggesting they weren't delighted to win the hurling, or that they're not a proper dual club.

I'm just suggesting that if you pushed them for a hand-on-heart 100% honest answer at the start of the year on whether they'd prefer to win Intermediate Football or Intermediate 'A' Hurling, then the majority there would have opted for the football.

Similarly, if you asked them now, I'd say the majority of any of Gusserane, Castletown, or the Kilanerin end of the Kilanerin/Tara Rocks combination would opt for a senior football title next year rather than their Intermediate or Intermediate 'A' hurling grade.

That's not to denigrate hurling efforts or achievements in any of those clubs. But I think it would still reflect what their overall priority is, even if the priority is only 60-40 or even 51-49.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 16/11/2022 12:37:44    2447755

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I'm not for one second suggesting they weren't delighted to win the hurling, or that they're not a proper dual club.

I'm just suggesting that if you pushed them for a hand-on-heart 100% honest answer at the start of the year on whether they'd prefer to win Intermediate Football or Intermediate 'A' Hurling, then the majority there would have opted for the football.

Similarly, if you asked them now, I'd say the majority of any of Gusserane, Castletown, or the Kilanerin end of the Kilanerin/Tara Rocks combination would opt for a senior football title next year rather than their Intermediate or Intermediate 'A' hurling grade.

That's not to denigrate hurling efforts or achievements in any of those clubs. But I think it would still reflect what their overall priority is, even if the priority is only 60-40 or even 51-49."
I think any club would prioritise a Senior title over an Intermediate one but if say Castletown and Gusserane get relegated from Senior football (admittedly very unlikely!) and Castletown get their now getting overdue promotion from Inter A in hurling, most members of both clubs would be as happy winning Intermediate hurling as Intermediate football.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 16/11/2022 12:52:06    2447759

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