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Monaghan GAA thread

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tickets (Donegal) - Posts: 7 - 20/07/2022 10:58:53    2433071

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Was in the capital today with my Galway hat on! I was fairly happy with myself up until half time, I was going for some light refreshments when I ran into a few Dublin supporters, we got talking and it turned out they could tell me who Monaghan's next manager is…. Jason Sherlock….

They didn't paint a great picture, seemingly he's being forced out of the management scene in Dublin due to a number of very poor/questionable decisions both while under Jim Gavin (where he Won an AI as a forwards coach) and while in his FIRST & ONLY management job with their Minor team.

This appointment to me if true is very worrying, Sherlock is walking in uncontested with Minimal to No experience and is travelling North simply for a pay day he can't get further South/Dublin.
Why in gods name can we not give a young up and coming Monaghan Manager the job? I know Counihan was interested but I'd heard he had found the task almost impossible to get a team around him due to the lack of interest in the job. Andy Callan the same.

If Monaghan Co. Board pull a stunt like this just to be seen getting a Tabloid Star on the line we and the team are doomed to fail.
I walked back to my seats a somber man, and left croker even worse!!

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 24/07/2022 19:08:07    2433998

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Replying To Blueblood4life:  "Was in the capital today with my Galway hat on! I was fairly happy with myself up until half time, I was going for some light refreshments when I ran into a few Dublin supporters, we got talking and it turned out they could tell me who Monaghan's next manager is…. Jason Sherlock….

They didn't paint a great picture, seemingly he's being forced out of the management scene in Dublin due to a number of very poor/questionable decisions both while under Jim Gavin (where he Won an AI as a forwards coach) and while in his FIRST & ONLY management job with their Minor team.

This appointment to me if true is very worrying, Sherlock is walking in uncontested with Minimal to No experience and is travelling North simply for a pay day he can't get further South/Dublin.
Why in gods name can we not give a young up and coming Monaghan Manager the job? I know Counihan was interested but I'd heard he had found the task almost impossible to get a team around him due to the lack of interest in the job. Andy Callan the same.

If Monaghan Co. Board pull a stunt like this just to be seen getting a Tabloid Star on the line we and the team are doomed to fail.
I walked back to my seats a somber man, and left croker even worse!!"
Setting aside the very rumor-like nature of this post for a moment, there are a few inconsistencies at play here....

First, you ask why not appoint an up and coming local, then go on to answer your own question quite lucidly with respect to two such potential candidates. Maybe you meant that to be a rhetorical?

You also seem quite sure and simultaneously cynical about everyone's possible motivations - Sherlock just picking up the cash, the county board pulling a stunt. Do we know these are the reasons? How? Or is this just conjecture and wishful thinking?

And finally, the bar is being set very very high here. If you hadn't named the individual but outlined that they were an all Ireland winner at senior level as both a player and coach and had a front row seat and involvement in the construction and maintenance of Jim Gavin's phenomenal stint as Dublin manager, maybe that's someone worth considering?

Any of those local hot shots with similar experience?

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 135 - 24/07/2022 20:01:09    2434031

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Sherlock would be an interesting appointment. He was one of a 3 man team along with Gavin and Darcy that had unprecedented success. Word is that Darcy is now taking over from Farrell at Dublin. I don't see it as a bad thing that we may be appointing the other coach from that team. He's won All Irelands as a player and coach. Who else in the running can say that?

SoNearYetSoFarney (Monaghan) - Posts: 32 - 25/07/2022 07:03:00    2434083

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If the local fellas aren't able to field a backroom team, and the Jason Sherlock is the incoming Manager, were you given an indication of who his backroom team are?

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 770 - 25/07/2022 08:18:16    2434095

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Replying To TearsIn85:  "Setting aside the very rumor-like nature of this post for a moment, there are a few inconsistencies at play here....

First, you ask why not appoint an up and coming local, then go on to answer your own question quite lucidly with respect to two such potential candidates. Maybe you meant that to be a rhetorical?

You also seem quite sure and simultaneously cynical about everyone's possible motivations - Sherlock just picking up the cash, the county board pulling a stunt. Do we know these are the reasons? How? Or is this just conjecture and wishful thinking?

And finally, the bar is being set very very high here. If you hadn't named the individual but outlined that they were an all Ireland winner at senior level as both a player and coach and had a front row seat and involvement in the construction and maintenance of Jim Gavin's phenomenal stint as Dublin manager, maybe that's someone worth considering?

Any of those local hot shots with similar experience?"
To answer your first question. I've been informed there is only one candidate with a complete ticket and that is NOT Sherlock, I was stating facts around the difficulty internals candidates were having getting personnel on board.

You may call it cynical, I call it reality. Co. Board have approached a Forwards coach to become a manager, he, like I've already stated had a disastrous stint as a manager and simply being the Guy behind a Jim Gavin doesn't make you a suitable or exceptional Management candidate.

What has Sherlock got that perhaps the others don't? Experience at senior inter-county level, that's a fact, but I'd be well versed in stating he's a Tabloid star, the county board obviously selected him after seeing him on the telly or in a back page because it wasn't due to his managerial successes. So let's be very clear, we are appointing a Manager not a coach, two very different roles.

On your statement regarding his previous success as a player, how many Ex-All Ireland winners is there? Now how many made/make great managers? We in Monaghan of all should know the pit falls of this logic, look at what wheeling every Celtic cross holding ex-Tyrone football has contributed to the county. A terrible brand of football with absolutely no clear pathway for coaches/managers.

Finally, I must apologise because it appears I've hurt your feelings with my original post as you appear very excited.

In closing, I am not against outside management or coaches, but they need to be of a particular standard and experience otherwise why not promote from within and help develop Monaghan standards. The next manager needs to make some very hard decisions regarding our current squad and perhaps a long term approach is what is required, will a outsider coming in be willing to take a short term hit for the long term health of the squad, history would tell us not.

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 25/07/2022 09:25:25    2434105

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Replying To SoNearYetSoFarney:  "Sherlock would be an interesting appointment. He was one of a 3 man team along with Gavin and Darcy that had unprecedented success. Word is that Darcy is now taking over from Farrell at Dublin. I don't see it as a bad thing that we may be appointing the other coach from that team. He's won All Irelands as a player and coach. Who else in the running can say that?"
Surely this man's credentials are what we need ,involved with probably one of the greatest teams ever ,insight in every aspect of the game .would be a super appointment. Im all for a local team taking the job,we have great county men to support him. Hopefully it's more than a rumour

stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 158 - 25/07/2022 09:44:57    2434112

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i'm am glad it's not another ex Tyrone or Armagh man being lined up, Ulster football is in a very poor state and the cave man tactics are a thing of the past. Look at the likes of Clifford, Con , O'Donoghue, and S Walsh there's not a Monaghan player with this natural flair, as they all have trained as robots.

While Sherlock may be a left field choice, i think it's worth a try.

patmouse (Monaghan) - Posts: 93 - 25/07/2022 10:21:05    2434131

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I'd have mixed feelings about this appointment. Monaghan need to rebuild for the long term and a big name coming in is short termism in the extreme. There are clearly issues going on in the background here whether its the players or the county board etc I don't know that are the reason for the lack of interest in what should be an attractive number div 1 football some good underage talent coming through facilities clearly decent etc. I agree it's better there is a break from an Ulster appointment however sherlock is a big gamble. He may been a coach under Jim Gavin but that doesn't make him Jim Gavin and I think his only managerial number was the dublin minors which didn't go great. Feels like the county board a little starstruck here.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1692 - 25/07/2022 12:02:54    2434176

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Replying To seanie08:  "I'd have mixed feelings about this appointment. Monaghan need to rebuild for the long term and a big name coming in is short termism in the extreme. There are clearly issues going on in the background here whether its the players or the county board etc I don't know that are the reason for the lack of interest in what should be an attractive number div 1 football some good underage talent coming through facilities clearly decent etc. I agree it's better there is a break from an Ulster appointment however sherlock is a big gamble. He may been a coach under Jim Gavin but that doesn't make him Jim Gavin and I think his only managerial number was the dublin minors which didn't go great. Feels like the county board a little starstruck here."
Very good post.
I would have liked an inside man to rebuild monaghan quietly, over the next few years.
What will we get from Jayo? Two years max.
Have said before, sqaud needs to be freshened up hugely. Did the players push banty? What is going on? Things seems a mess at the moment even the club league and structure, bottom teams who haven't won a game all year very luck to get two chances to survive in any grade. Looking at the game yesterday the final, we are so far away from having forwards that was on show like the big teams have. Interesting few years ahead.

222 (UK) - Posts: 603 - 25/07/2022 14:14:56    2434270

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Replying To seanie08:  "I'd have mixed feelings about this appointment. Monaghan need to rebuild for the long term and a big name coming in is short termism in the extreme. There are clearly issues going on in the background here whether its the players or the county board etc I don't know that are the reason for the lack of interest in what should be an attractive number div 1 football some good underage talent coming through facilities clearly decent etc. I agree it's better there is a break from an Ulster appointment however sherlock is a big gamble. He may been a coach under Jim Gavin but that doesn't make him Jim Gavin and I think his only managerial number was the dublin minors which didn't go great. Feels like the county board a little starstruck here."
I assume the reason for the lack of interest is due to the current squad, we are in no mans land.

We just survived relegation with a ageing team who next year will be a year older. We have quality coming through but that's maybe 2-4 years away.

I get the sense nobody wants the job of developing the new team and making big decisions on the older servants. They'd all rather be sitting waiting for the job in the 2-4 years when the hard graft is done.

It's for this reason a inside management ticket is so important, we need a long term approach not a flash in the pan trying to get the last drop outta the older players, that's wat Banty done. He threw absolutely everything at the current squad and got all there was to get outta them. Appointing Sherlock will be like going back in time to when Banty took over in 2019, all be it without the vast amount of money it took.

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 25/07/2022 16:59:54    2434370

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Replying To seanie08:  "I'd have mixed feelings about this appointment. Monaghan need to rebuild for the long term and a big name coming in is short termism in the extreme. There are clearly issues going on in the background here whether its the players or the county board etc I don't know that are the reason for the lack of interest in what should be an attractive number div 1 football some good underage talent coming through facilities clearly decent etc. I agree it's better there is a break from an Ulster appointment however sherlock is a big gamble. He may been a coach under Jim Gavin but that doesn't make him Jim Gavin and I think his only managerial number was the dublin minors which didn't go great. Feels like the county board a little starstruck here."
I thought we were bad with Moran but jeapers this is surely an appointment I'd have a problem with if I supported Monaghan. Maybe it's a reflection of the quality of manager out there at the moment but surely ye have someone in the county that has the necessary scruples to take on the job? I know Dominic Corrigan is rumoured to be interested in the Longford job but jeapers I'd have him over Sherlock any day.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 438 - 25/07/2022 18:17:00    2434402

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This Sherlock talk is purely just speculation at the moment. Good chance that there will be a change of manager in Dublin & he might hedge to see if there is a place for him in the backroom team there. I think we need to be realistic here. We have a team in transition & don't have the population to have a strong pipeline.
If Sherlock is appointed, might not be a bad option. He would attract a decent backroom team, decent sponsorship & might attract those who have stood away from the panel back. Could be refreshing. I know there are probably vested interests on here who want their clubman or friend or relation to get the job but to be honest I would welcome a fresh perspective - God knows we need it after the past few years.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 942 - 25/07/2022 20:01:22    2434423

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Replying To greysoil:  "This Sherlock talk is purely just speculation at the moment. Good chance that there will be a change of manager in Dublin & he might hedge to see if there is a place for him in the backroom team there. I think we need to be realistic here. We have a team in transition & don't have the population to have a strong pipeline.
If Sherlock is appointed, might not be a bad option. He would attract a decent backroom team, decent sponsorship & might attract those who have stood away from the panel back. Could be refreshing. I know there are probably vested interests on here who want their clubman or friend or relation to get the job but to be honest I would welcome a fresh perspective - God knows we need it after the past few years."
It's far from speculation. Andy Callan, Mark Counihan & Jason Sherlock are the 3 nominations.

No word on either of the aboves back room teams as of yet unless someone can share?

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 26/07/2022 10:45:10    2434476

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Replying To Blueblood4life:  "I assume the reason for the lack of interest is due to the current squad, we are in no mans land.

We just survived relegation with a ageing team who next year will be a year older. We have quality coming through but that's maybe 2-4 years away.

I get the sense nobody wants the job of developing the new team and making big decisions on the older servants. They'd all rather be sitting waiting for the job in the 2-4 years when the hard graft is done.

It's for this reason a inside management ticket is so important, we need a long term approach not a flash in the pan trying to get the last drop outta the older players, that's wat Banty done. He threw absolutely everything at the current squad and got all there was to get outta them. Appointing Sherlock will be like going back in time to when Banty took over in 2019, all be it without the vast amount of money it took."
This talk of having to rebuild, why so ? The right man for the job will have eyes and ears for all talent available, the prober back room team will be the same . Some of the older lads are needed to steer the younger lads in the rite direction. The only thing wrong with the county set up this past few yrs is the manager probably thought the way of a club manager.. having to play the in-laws of all the do Golders in the club regardless how good /bad they were .. every club in the county has this problem! . A new clean slate .. plenty of talent in the county to keep us afloat.. And a proper manager will be welcomed by all

stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 158 - 26/07/2022 13:30:06    2434557

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Replying To stoneygrey:  "This talk of having to rebuild, why so ? The right man for the job will have eyes and ears for all talent available, the prober back room team will be the same . Some of the older lads are needed to steer the younger lads in the rite direction. The only thing wrong with the county set up this past few yrs is the manager probably thought the way of a club manager.. having to play the in-laws of all the do Golders in the club regardless how good /bad they were .. every club in the county has this problem! . A new clean slate .. plenty of talent in the county to keep us afloat.. And a proper manager will be welcomed by all"
Agree. This team doesn't need to be rebuilt, it needs to be developed and coached. One of the few good things Banty did was introduce young players in the last two seasons. One of the worst things he did was drive a couple away too. Get lads like O'Hanlon and Mulligan back and continue on developing talent like Mohan, Leonard and Woods and we have a pretty decent team. Get a manager in who knows what he's doing and good things can happen.

SoNearYetSoFarney (Monaghan) - Posts: 32 - 26/07/2022 14:09:08    2434571

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Replying To SoNearYetSoFarney:  "Agree. This team doesn't need to be rebuilt, it needs to be developed and coached. One of the few good things Banty did was introduce young players in the last two seasons. One of the worst things he did was drive a couple away too. Get lads like O'Hanlon and Mulligan back and continue on developing talent like Mohan, Leonard and Woods and we have a pretty decent team. Get a manager in who knows what he's doing and good things can happen."
Disagree, there is a re-build required.

To my knowledge we have 15 in the panel of the age of 30, and 6 over the age of 35. If you think that's the age profile of a successfully intercounty team your living on a different planet to the rest of us.

The reason for the above, more than a few I'd imagine. Lack of long term thinking on Bantys part, wanting to get the last drop outta those senior players (which he was probably entitled too).

Lack of development within the county set up from Minors to seniors, just look at what happened our u20s.

Poor management from Co. board, I've heard the current men at the helm are more worried about ticket allotment on big days and finances as apposed to football.

And finally a terrible club scene, Scotstown are so far ahead of every team in the county it's sickening, yet when they've went into Ulster they can't get a run going.

I've said it from the day Banty departed, a massive job awaits the next manager and it will require more than a Jason Sherlock for 1-2 years. This will need a 3-4 year plan put in place to ensure that we have a sustainable, competitive co senior team in the future.

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 26/07/2022 14:22:48    2434582

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Any one saying that we have quality coming obviously haven't attended many club games this year, Blayney's best man Malone, Donaghmoyne's Donaghy Ballybay Finlay Clones Freeman and Kelly and Scotstown miles ahead of everyone else without playing that well. Don't know any manager that can fix this any time soon.

DEBOGMAN (Monaghan) - Posts: 10 - 26/07/2022 14:40:01    2434592

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Replying To Blueblood4life:  "Disagree, there is a re-build required.

To my knowledge we have 15 in the panel of the age of 30, and 6 over the age of 35. If you think that's the age profile of a successfully intercounty team your living on a different planet to the rest of us.

The reason for the above, more than a few I'd imagine. Lack of long term thinking on Bantys part, wanting to get the last drop outta those senior players (which he was probably entitled too).

Lack of development within the county set up from Minors to seniors, just look at what happened our u20s.

Poor management from Co. board, I've heard the current men at the helm are more worried about ticket allotment on big days and finances as apposed to football.

And finally a terrible club scene, Scotstown are so far ahead of every team in the county it's sickening, yet when they've went into Ulster they can't get a run going.

I've said it from the day Banty departed, a massive job awaits the next manager and it will require more than a Jason Sherlock for 1-2 years. This will need a 3-4 year plan put in place to ensure that we have a sustainable, competitive co senior team in the future."
What makes you think Sherlock will only stay a year or two? He has connections to Monaghan through family. There are ex-teammates of his involved in Monaghan football currently who are prime candidates to join his backroom team. And I'm sure he'll bring in some native Monaghan people as well to complete the team. He was with the Dubs for 6 years, now this is his actual gig and anyone looking around at coaches who have achieved success in recent years know that success cannot happen overnight. I'm sure the county board will not accept him coming on-board short-term - not that he'll necessarily be asking for that.

SoNearYetSoFarney (Monaghan) - Posts: 32 - 26/07/2022 14:46:36    2434596

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Replying To SoNearYetSoFarney:  "Agree. This team doesn't need to be rebuilt, it needs to be developed and coached. One of the few good things Banty did was introduce young players in the last two seasons. One of the worst things he did was drive a couple away too. Get lads like O'Hanlon and Mulligan back and continue on developing talent like Mohan, Leonard and Woods and we have a pretty decent team. Get a manager in who knows what he's doing and good things can happen."
Banty introduced them to the periphery only . When it came to the big learning days,he sat them on the bench,thus ensuring 3 or 4 walkways and after match infighting. Banty's 3 years have brought us back 5 years. If we are leaning to an ex Dub,why not wait to see what happens in their set up and maybe Farrell becomes available. If we stay in county,it has to be Callan for me with Counihan next on list. If an outside man comes in why not have these two men involved also. Why must managers come with their whole backroom team assembled. Could the Co. Board along with the new man not assemble it,involving Callan,Counihan and the Corrys or whoever else might be needed.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 265 - 26/07/2022 15:34:49    2434620

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