Bobby was brilliant again on Sunday for ratoath

head4dblackspot (Meath) - Posts: 513 - 17/11/2015 18:11:30    1808037

anfearbeag I'm not so sure that you would get away with what was pretty normal 20 or 30 years ago. More cameras and linesmen acting as refs! To win you need discipline along with football ability and work rate (a bit of experience helps). Martin McHugh talking about physicality and toughness is something that I would not pay too much attention to.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 17/11/2015 20:05:13    1808088

I agree with all of that browncows. But you also need aggression. Controlled aggression certainly, but aggression nonetheless. We seriously lack that. I wouldn't be a big fan of McHugh, but like the stopped clock, he is right on occasion. I think he is right on this one. Players used to know that when you played Meath, you were in for a tough physical battle. I know that the game has changed hugely, and I would be the last one to be harking back to the good old days. But there still is room in the modern game for hardness and physicality and aggression, and we definitely lack that.

anfearbeag (Meath) - Posts: 1134 - 17/11/2015 20:44:46    1808102

browncows

More of a point were you have to be conditioned at the levels required and mentally strong.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 17/11/2015 20:45:16    1808103

I agree with controlled aggression (and good mental and physical approach) and that is an attribute that I would include with a good clever work rate. The point I was trying to make (and made poorly) was a reference to McHugh who for most of his playing career was -quite timid.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 18/11/2015 08:53:05    1808131

Ziggy,

O'Brien hasn't lost the head this year..?? I beg to differ. I can think of two separate occasions off the top of my head where he has.

In fairness I agree with the comments about controlled aggression etc We need to bring that passion back for playing in the county jersey. I think it's been somewhat lost since Dublin have started to dominate, knowing you don't really have a chance of winning anything after training since the previous October.

RedMeath12 (Meath) - Posts: 117 - 18/11/2015 09:41:04    1808152

I agree Browncows that McHugh was never the most aggressive of players. I think that he (and a lot of other players) had a bit of a fear of playing Meath, as the knew that they would be in for a tough, physical (and occasionally dirty!!) battle, which a lot of them didn't have the stomach for. I also think that they had a bit of a grudging respect for Meath because of that physicality, even though they couldn't match it.
McHugh reckoned that Meath had lost that physical edge, that toughness and aggression which was part of their game for so long. As a result teams stopped fearing Meath, and probably lost a lot of respect for them as well.
Because it was McHugh who said it (who never has a good word to say about Meath), people got annoyed about it and went into denial mode. But he was right. We had, and still have too many nice guys. Good footballers but either too small, or not willing to mix it with teams when the going gets tough.

anfearbeag (Meath) - Posts: 1134 - 18/11/2015 11:56:00    1808216

When you talk about players mixing it when the going gets tough,perhaps only Rooney,Burke and Tormey would be up to it.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/11/2015 13:46:52    1808252

Wholeheartedly agree with the thing about too many nice footballers and no bit of divil in them. These guys are all much smaller than the current Dublin players and a lot of other county teams, so it makes them easier to bully about the place. Now I know in the past couple of years a couple of teams (Kildare in Leinster SF last year) have said how surprised they were by Meaths physicality but when the row broke out last year in the leinster final only Stoney was willing to stand up to the dubs and he got a few fingers in his gob on the ground for it. Every team needs some nice footballers and a few nutters of which we'd a great balance during Boylan's great years but a simple prerequisite is you stand your ground and the current squad just doesn't do it.

I know a member of the background team and he was telling me a story about MOD's reaction to Crawford doing nothing about the punch/clothesline Whelan gave him at the throw in in 2003/2004???? Said MOD couldn't believe it and that Crawford didn't get up and hit him back… That's the day we can track it back to when teams started to think, where's that Meath toughness.. If we hit them they won't hit us back..

The game v westmeath was crying out for anyone to throw a sly dig or late shoulder but the players were "too nice to do it" and Westmeath came along the endline and got 2/3 scores like that. Your FB or CHB should be putting guys like that out/ on their arses but they didn't. Its why someone like a Liam Harnan/ Mick Lyons type selector is needed. Someone the lads would be fearing to see in the dressing rooms after chickening out of a tackle/ shoulder etc.. Yes we might pick up a few yellow/black cards doing it but jesus it might put a bit of that fear back in teams when they're playing Meath.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 18/11/2015 15:28:23    1808290

Here we go again. How many times has it to be said. It is a complete waste of time concentrating on that in the modern game. Just look at the recent announcement on restricting the handpass. The game has changed and we must change with it. Lads not tracking back when they should be. Not putting their all into a shoulder to take a lad out over the sideline. Not being clinical. All stem back to a lack of desire and hunger to win. These are real issues the team need to address. The lads who you describe are quiet and by many wouldn't hurt a fly are good role models for aspiring young players.

Throwing in the odd sly dig in the Westmeath game would have been completely futile and played into Westmeath hands. Being the hard man gets you nowhere these days. We are not Tyrone.

Jimin10 (Meath) - Posts: 783 - 18/11/2015 18:33:57    1808329

Well Jimin, look at where the hard man has got Tyrone and Donegal. Consistently challenging at QF and later. If that's where being a hard man gets you I'll take that. At least it shows some heart and desire within the players. Sticking a hand in and trying to dispose a player rather than hitting a solid shoulder shows the lack of desire to me.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 19/11/2015 08:44:16    1808366

How does 'sticking a hand in' show a lack of desire? players are coached to tackle the ball to try regain possession. And throwing in a sly dig or a late shoulder definitely isn't being a 'hardman'. You can be a hardman and still play within the rules of the game

Meathgaa5 (Meath) - Posts: 339 - 19/11/2015 09:16:50    1808374

Brian-sticking a hand in is the best way to tackle a player or indeed winning the ball is best. I would always like playing against the player who goes for the big hit as all you have to do is sidestep and move on! Hitting a good shoulder is good and has a time and place but it will never replace a good tackle. Toughness comes in many forms. By the way the Dubs live on the edge just like Killkenny and might I add that most of their tackles are fouls but they have the experience to get away with it and fool the ref. On another point, in AI, if the ref had given big Donaghy the penalty he deserved they would have won All Ireland, however they did not deserve to win and their side line decisions were very poor.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 19/11/2015 09:18:54    1808375

Browncow, Come on don't just pick one debatable opportunity for kerry in the final to say the could have won when they actually were lucky to be only beaten 3 points. Sure Dublin had 3-4 goal opportunities and actually could have won by at least 6-8 points. Also you are also discrediting their tackling ability by stating that like kilkenny they are bordering on fouls. Take the blinkers off.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 19/11/2015 12:38:59    1808431

Think a lot of the tackling/toughness issues could be attributed to the standard of refereeing in the county. From what I've seen in the many championship games i've played/seen this year is that the referees in Meath are too trigger happy. Blowing at every opportunity, this results in a serious lack of bite in club games which is reflecting on these players when they line out with the county. Lads are afraid to go in hard.

I'd recommend taking the referees aside, giving them instruction on how we want our games reffed in terms of leniency and we can get the toughness that has long being associated with Meath football back.

begining (UK) - Posts: 300 - 19/11/2015 14:26:18    1808470

Good point with that post about refs in Meath..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 19/11/2015 15:05:08    1808488

Anymore from the 2012 minors who haven't got the call up yet?

Minor final 2012
R Burlingham,

R O Coileáin,
B Power,
S Gallagher,

D Smyth,
P Harnan,
S Lavin,

S McEntee,
A Flanagan,

C O'Sullivan,
J Daly,
J McEntee,

B Dardis,
F Ward,
S Coogan.

Subs:
P Kennelly,
H Rooney
C Carton
C O Griofa
C O'Brien

LoyalRoyal (None) - Posts: 452 - 19/11/2015 17:37:28    1808550

Absolutely spot on re refs. They are too trigger happy with the whistle

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 19/11/2015 17:47:02    1808552

That's ridculous blaming refs on tackling, a foul is a foul.our inter county team is not managed by refs. If you look at our county team they are not tackling with any real aggression this in my mind is down to the training and coaching they are getting. Micko wasn't a tough no nonsense type so he not into that. Fair enuf but to blame refs. Mother of god

Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 19/11/2015 21:53:20    1808611

It's easy to see reco. Meath were absolutely opened up in the second half against westmeath. Lads running 50 yards through the heart of a Meath defence 15 years ago would be unheard of, Meath players were trying to stop players running through with a one arm slap aimed at the ball, this doesn't work, it wouldn't knock an ould one off a push bike, you need a body hit, a hard one to stop the man (most importantly) and if lucky break the ball and spoil the attack.

Hard hitting and toughness is simply being reffed out of the club game in Meath at the minute. I can't remember one proper hit put in in any of the club games i've played or seen this year. I played a challenge in dublin in the summer and couldn't get over the ferocity of the tackling and the speed of the break once they turned the ball over. By the time we got to grips with what the referee was allowing the game was over.

Not saying referees in Meath are biased or unfair. They could just do with showing more leniency which I've no doubt would add to the standard and entertainment value of club football in Meath

begining (UK) - Posts: 300 - 20/11/2015 09:58:21    1808629