The definition of stupidity..... keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 03/08/2014 19:23:21    1630862

Look some might disagree with me but this is my opinion.
I think Meath armagh galway Kildare Monaghan even Donegal. Would have the same caliber of player barring the odd exception. One year can make a difference look at armagh last to this , mcgeeney made a difference. I feel we need a extra voice who can change our fortunes , I like many others advocate mod staying on, but he must face his own short comings too , talking about 5 years before progress is tbh nonsense. Jim mcg didn't need 5 years. Hands up and say you know what tactically I haven't got it right and I'm bringing in someone to help with that we are also bringing in a new training regime as we tired too easily this year.
This is what's needed not ahh this is what to expect for next few years. Do this and mod will be assured of majority support.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 03/08/2014 19:37:13    1630880

Just read there that Mick O Dowd wants to finish his five years.

Surely all it takes is one year to improve your knowledge of the game and become tactically astute.
One year to search the county high and dry for the best squad of players and know there best positions.
One year to create a training regime that will have them as fit as their competitors.
One year to know when to make a worthy substitution and when not to.

I'm all for giving him five after he learns the above in one.

Royal_Truth (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 03/08/2014 19:38:27    1630885

I couldn't help thinking when joey Wallace and paddy gilsenan came on and made no impact the difference it would've made to have experienced lads like joe Sheridan or cian ward coming off the bench instead for the last 10 minutes, regardless if they had done any better, Armagh defenders seeing big joe and cian ward coming on wouldve definitely been more afraid than seeing the likes of them coming on yesterday.

meathalltheway (Meath) - Posts: 789 - 03/08/2014 19:42:14    1630890

Exactly, these young lads were out of their debt, MOD needs a rethink, young fellas need a bit of experience around them in order to progress, age should be no barrier, Ward over the hill at 27?

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 03/08/2014 19:50:33    1630901

Example: Cork losing today to Mayo needed a goal to get back into the game.....que Donnacha O Connor. The guy came on and buried the ball into the net - a natural goal threat. He was in around the box when cork got their second goal as he had Mayos defence confused..

Thats precisely what Meath needed last night.. a known danger man to come in and plant the seed into the armaghs defence..

I would 100% have Joe Sheridan, Cian Ward, Jamie Queeney even Peader Byrne going in there time and time again if Meath were trailing by 3-4 points with ten mins left in a game. These are v experienced players.

And for anyone thinking different... just imagine the scenario.. Stephen Bray going off and Sheridan/Ward coming at you. .or Joey Wallace.
No brainer, these guys have been there, served their time etc etc etc. Give youth the chance but let experience have its part to play.

Meath needed target and dangermen in the last ten minutes not unproven rookies.

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 757 - 03/08/2014 20:14:25    1630927

Crinigan
County: Meath
Posts: 49

Perhaps you are right. I believe O Dowd was hasty getting rid of a few individuals. But he didnt get rid of them last week but last january. Shane O Rourke should have been tried at 14 at some stage yest. O Dowd is building a team for a few years down the line. Fair Play to him if he stays with it and I think he should. We need to be patient and trust the management team. Injuries did not help this year. get everyone back fit next year Stephen Bray included. There is no future in going back to the likes of ward, queeney and others. Not Progress. Mayo havent gone back to conor mortimer.

db9 (Meath) - Posts: 283 - 03/08/2014 20:42:17    1630957

I seem to recall Colm Coyle taking a gamble on a young unproved rookie by the name of Cian Ward a few years ago. That was when Meath were 3 or 4 points behind against Dublin. He kicked a couple of monster frees and a ridiculous sideline. Are you saying Ward should have been left on the sideline that day? Hindsight is a great thing. If experienced players played yesterday, guess what people on here would be saying now? Get rid of them and try youth.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 03/08/2014 20:46:12    1630967

Former_Poster...

Cian Ward came on in a Leinster Match, and was on free taking duty. He was a tactical substitute...I remember he scored 7 points in the second half from frees. Earned Meath a replay which Meath lost by 4 points.

Complete different scenario and almost incomparable.

Dalton McDonagh and Joey Wallace were NEVER going to have an influence against Armagh. Everyone knew that.
My point is; Meath needed a goal.getter with experience.

Geraghty v Tyrone in 2007 springs to mind.. came on unsettled the tyrone defence and ultimately got the goal that boosted Meath.

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 757 - 04/08/2014 10:39:31    1631052

Royalio11 Meath needed a goal-getter with experience? Well Dalton McDonagh is probably one of the best goal-getters in Meath at the minute. Scored a goal in the county final last year, scored a hat-trick earlier this year, scored the crucial goal in the last round of the league against Louth, scored one against Carlow and scored one against Kildare. As I said already, hindsight is a great thing. Everyone can be an expert after the event. It's one thing people criticising these players but when you are criticising them and getting your facts wrong, well I'm not sure why you even bother!

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 04/08/2014 11:17:35    1631076

I'll give my tuppence worth on this, for what its worth anyway as an outsider.

For me, Mick O'Dowd is still potentially the right man for Meath long term. The last two and a bit weeks have been a shambles and he has made some very big calls, Most of which he has, ultimately, Gotten wrong. I think the problem isn't necessarily the fact that he makes mistakes because every manager at some point in time, no matter how experienced or otherwise, will balls up. It's natural. However with Mick O'Dowd, My major worry would be his inability to recognise his mistakes in live play, or, If he does recognise them, his reluctance/hesitation to change no matter how early in the game. This all comes down to inexperience. Mick is the prime example of a young manager learning on the job, Now potentially, having a manager learning on the job is fine, Once you can see signs of progress both in himself on the sideline in his decision making and tactical awareness, and of course in the performances in the team itself. However the problem arises when you have 2 years like Meath have just had, Where they are no better/worse off than last year in terms of how far they got in the championship, But you have taken a step back, or so it seems in Leinster, after getting beat more by Dublin in '14, than you did in '13. And then what you get, is what we are seeing on fora like these. Obviously very frustrated Meath fans who in hurt and disappointment, perhaps get a bit carried away with over the top knee-jerk reactions..

In terms of Micks decisions around experienced players, Dropping them in the winter etc, In heinsite, Maybe not having players like Jamie Queeney, Joe Sheridan, Cian Ward etc to come in from the bench when you where a few points down was a huge achilles heel of the squad created by MOD. Then again, nobody said that when 7 goals was shipped past the Carlow 'keeper, Or when you ran up a big score against Kildare, Or when it took a monster Michael Murphy free to deny you of victory in Ballybofey in the league. So i do think it is unfair to throw that at Mick O'Dowd now. At the end of the day, He has a job to do and he has a way of going about it and if he thought certain lads werent part of his plans then it is his choice. Maybe he got it wrong in the end but I think he has the right idea, start afresh. None of you know exactly why those lads weren't picked anyway, So it would be wrong to speculate.

I know that missing players like Gillespie and Wallace was a big blow to Meath this year, But my worry if i was a Meath fan was the way they lay down and took their defeat against Dublin. The lack of intensity in the tackle. Dublin are a very good side but you made them look great with the ease at which we cut through you. And this is still a derby game. The difference in mentality between Dublin and Meath was huge on the day. Dublin seemed to want everything alot more. Even when miles ahead. It was as if nothing shocked Dublin, Yet Meath where stunned and didnt expect Dublin to be as good as they where. You underestimated them and by the time you knew what had hit you, The game was already over. To lose by so much and expect a win against Armagh was a little unrealistic. Your championship was over after that defeat and it was as much down to you as it was down to Dublin.

Moving forward, Meath have to swallow their pride. Hard work takes you a long way in Sport, But so does playing different ways to counteract opposition, And Meath cant continue to play naively like they did against Dublin. They have to do a Donegal, And revert to a more defensive approach if they are to challenge the top sides again. Cause if you continue to play man on man against superior teams like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry. Teams who attack... You will get eaten up.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 04/08/2014 12:29:46    1631143

Good post Wayno..

For me though the BIGGEST problem is the mentality,before you get anything right,you have to have the mentality right first,and,as a team,is it not right.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 04/08/2014 13:28:21    1631202

Mentality among who Ziggy ? The players ?

I don't know the ins and outs with Meath. I am merely an outsider looking in.

But in my view, and again you can either agree or disagree, Meath have to follow the template of Donegal in particular. Dublin aswell.

The minimum requirement should be 110% effort and work-rate in every single game naturally, But even in every training session. Anybody who is not committed should not be around the panel. It would be very hard work behind the scenes, But you get out of life what you put in, And The reward/benefit of this is that you start to be competitive against top teams. Then you beat one, Then you win something and when the players see th hard work paying off, They will really feel the momentum growing and belief rising.

The issue at the beginning, Is having a panel of talented players who are willing to make sacrifices for the case, But also, They need a manager with a very strong discipline. They need a manager who gets stuck in, And who isn't too nice. For me looking at MOD, He needs to be able to put discipline on them, I'm not talking about discipline after stepping out of line, Just discipline in approaching games and training with that right mentality, And having seen the lack of effort and the ease at which they gave up against us, I wonder if they have that discipline.

But again it goes back to what i said, Mick O'Dowd learning on the job. Gilroy had to do it aswell make no mistake about it, But he had a voice and an experienced man in Micky Whelan by his side to lend him a helping hand. Maybe mick needs someone similar by his side just to advise him, But i do believe if MOD meets with the panel in October and lays out plans, A more disciplined and stricter approach, let players decide who wants to commit and who doesnt, And all start again in november, run the b*#*#ks out of each and every one of them, coach the basics to players who evidently lacked them at times this year, And work on a different system similar to Donegal, And Meath in a year or two could be challenging and possibly beating teams at the top.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 04/08/2014 14:18:12    1631225

Wayno

Ya I am talking about the players,for a while now,I rarely see 15 players go out putting their bodies on the line and playing with pride.You saw how so many gave up against Dublin,but also some were not up to the battle from the start.Similar in the Armagh game too.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 04/08/2014 16:43:56    1631326

Wayno

When Mick was appointed I would have loved to have scene a Boylan figure there to help him early on,if this was to happen now though(in his 3rd year),it might look undermining.But for sure,we need to shake up the backroon team.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 04/08/2014 16:46:11    1631327

Ziggy (Sorry for all the essays and the one below, ha)

I think any young manager in any sport, would welcome the arrival of someone to give him a hand, Once it is agreed by all parties that the guy with the experience is there for advice and support, Rather than a position that undermines/puts added pressure on the manager in place. Do ye get me ?

Now if it was a case that the Meath county board went ahead and hired a Boylan-like figure without the say-so of Mick O'Dowd, Then that is completely undermining his position and i would certainly kick up a fuss. But if its talked through and everyone can find a common ground and start the new year on the same page, Mick O'Dowd, The county board, His management team and players, Then I believe they will then have real foundations on which to build a steady team that is ready to progress.

I do agree players lacked leadership, and seemed to lack the necessary desire that is required when you wear the Meath jersey, or in our case down the years, The Dublin jersey. But alot of guys out there against us, And against Armagh where very young and inexperienced. So Thats where the intense discipline comes into place over the next few years. No matter who you are if you dont do the job, Dropped. I feel thats why Reilly (graham) was dropped, To be made an example out of, And thats the right way to go about it in my view. Lay down a marker, No matter how indespensible you may feel you are, You arent too good to feel the wrath of management if you dont put in the hard grafting. Of course when you lose it seems like its backfired, But the intentions of O'Dowd where spot on. Just a shame for him that he didnt have similar quality of player to bring in

It will take time for MOD, I still believe though that he is the man to take Meath forward. It might not even be next year but if there is progress which, hard days like July 20 and last Satuday will only motivate the players next year, It could bring them closer together.

Thats what i feel as a neutral.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 04/08/2014 17:14:27    1631349

Wayno

I agree 100%,G.Reilly wasn't putting it in and he deserved to be dropped.Gerry McEntee would be a good guy to get in too.He may not have time to be manager,but as an extra voice,he would be a serious candidate.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 04/08/2014 18:58:06    1631406

Thought our free taking has taken a step back compared to 2013.

Having a man capable of nailing pretty much anything from 50 yards lift the team no end.

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 04/08/2014 19:22:26    1631424

bert09

I think Newman can do this,but he barely played any football since getting injured against Down.Missed a lot of training and therefore did not look sharp enough.Because of that you can lose a bit of confidence,thus not being as good with frees as he can be.

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 04/08/2014 20:35:08    1631484

Expect a new inexperienced manager to make mistakes, but to make the same mistakes again and again is worrying . Hope management can sit down and review the situation in an honest way. This may mean asking for help going forward.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 04/08/2014 20:56:26    1631510