Cavan Forum

Continuous Failure

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Replying To fredflint:  "If you read back through years of posts you'll find I have been one of the biggest defenders of our players while others attacked them. When a lad is giving his all I'll have no complaints. However I now believe the players are getting too easy a ride. If you want to win you have to be willing to do at least what the other counties are doing. We clearly arent, we can do party buses and glorious defeats but we dont do the hard yards for whatever reason it seems not. You have to earn Ulster's and they are hard earned."
Sorry I know this isn't the topic on the thread. Why the sudden change then? You were happy they were giving a whole hearted effort when Cavan were in mid table division 3? But now they are having it easy? I'd argue you don't have an idea of the training done by an intercounty footballer these days if you think they aren't putting in the hard yards! Also training would be set out by the management team, so I don't exactly know what you're expecting.

BigEZ (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 04/12/2019 18:45:11    2253234

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Replying To BigEZ:  "Sorry I know this isn't the topic on the thread. Why the sudden change then? You were happy they were giving a whole hearted effort when Cavan were in mid table division 3? But now they are having it easy? I'd argue you don't have an idea of the training done by an intercounty footballer these days if you think they aren't putting in the hard yards! Also training would be set out by the management team, so I don't exactly know what you're expecting."
I'm referring to the players who are not on the panel. Utmost respect for the lads that love cavan and are on the panel.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1298 - 04/12/2019 23:36:35    2253290

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Folks

if we look at what Monaghan did over the last 10 years .size of population is no excuse ,,a marquee forward would be great but 3/4 decent scoring forwards would be a big help. Monaghan retained a hard core of really committed quaiity players over a long period and went to Mayo and Kerry and beat them in the league along with their ulster championships.

I think even when we did win 97 it was Martin Mc hugh influence giving them confidence ..i saw them loose to Monaghan in the league straight after he left and it was back to normal.

The key influence in U21 Success was Peter Donnelly from Tyrone i suspect.

There is a losing mentality in the County , the recent u21 Success and St pats being more successful is a glimmer of hope.

Compared to recently the performances against Monaghan and Armagh were improvements but monaghan were very poor and we threatened to loose it having got a dodgy penalty.

I do think the Gaa in general should make efforts to roll back the over commitment of players as ultimately it is an amateur game.

Maybe introduce amalgamation teams in Senior Championship like Kerry to get all top players playing in Senior Championship.
Make underage football focussed on skills development for all , stories of u16 titles been won with all players behind the ball and one good forward up front is bad for development.

Cavan Seniors did not show up for the crunch first 20 mins against Donegal or against tyrone ... mentality weak ..do the limerick thing and introduce the sports physcholigist to get to the bottom of the lack of belief.

eamonnmac (Cavan) - Posts: 59 - 15/12/2019 14:38:21    2254972

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Replying To eamonnmac:  "Folks

if we look at what Monaghan did over the last 10 years .size of population is no excuse ,,a marquee forward would be great but 3/4 decent scoring forwards would be a big help. Monaghan retained a hard core of really committed quaiity players over a long period and went to Mayo and Kerry and beat them in the league along with their ulster championships.

I think even when we did win 97 it was Martin Mc hugh influence giving them confidence ..i saw them loose to Monaghan in the league straight after he left and it was back to normal.

The key influence in U21 Success was Peter Donnelly from Tyrone i suspect.

There is a losing mentality in the County , the recent u21 Success and St pats being more successful is a glimmer of hope.

Compared to recently the performances against Monaghan and Armagh were improvements but monaghan were very poor and we threatened to loose it having got a dodgy penalty.

I do think the Gaa in general should make efforts to roll back the over commitment of players as ultimately it is an amateur game.

Maybe introduce amalgamation teams in Senior Championship like Kerry to get all top players playing in Senior Championship.
Make underage football focussed on skills development for all , stories of u16 titles been won with all players behind the ball and one good forward up front is bad for development.

Cavan Seniors did not show up for the crunch first 20 mins against Donegal or against tyrone ... mentality weak ..do the limerick thing and introduce the sports physcholigist to get to the bottom of the lack of belief."
Excellent post.

These are the types of responses I hoped for when I set up this thread.

There is most definitely a "we're not worthy" mentality in Cavan, at all levels, just look at the record of the club teams in Ulster. There's a sense that winning a county title is the ultimate goal, and the Ulster competition is an afterthought. Where did that mentality come from?

Root and branch reform needed. A player exodus like the one underway at the moment, might be the spark needed to create fundamental change.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 16/12/2019 11:03:38    2255111

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Replying To eamonnmac:  "Folks

if we look at what Monaghan did over the last 10 years .size of population is no excuse ,,a marquee forward would be great but 3/4 decent scoring forwards would be a big help. Monaghan retained a hard core of really committed quaiity players over a long period and went to Mayo and Kerry and beat them in the league along with their ulster championships.

I think even when we did win 97 it was Martin Mc hugh influence giving them confidence ..i saw them loose to Monaghan in the league straight after he left and it was back to normal.

The key influence in U21 Success was Peter Donnelly from Tyrone i suspect.

There is a losing mentality in the County , the recent u21 Success and St pats being more successful is a glimmer of hope.

Compared to recently the performances against Monaghan and Armagh were improvements but monaghan were very poor and we threatened to loose it having got a dodgy penalty.

I do think the Gaa in general should make efforts to roll back the over commitment of players as ultimately it is an amateur game.

Maybe introduce amalgamation teams in Senior Championship like Kerry to get all top players playing in Senior Championship.
Make underage football focussed on skills development for all , stories of u16 titles been won with all players behind the ball and one good forward up front is bad for development.

Cavan Seniors did not show up for the crunch first 20 mins against Donegal or against tyrone ... mentality weak ..do the limerick thing and introduce the sports physcholigist to get to the bottom of the lack of belief."
Yeah, a good post.

I don't like the Monaghan comparison because that's totally reliant on the form on 1 player. He hadn't a good season last year and look how the rest of the team got exposed.

We don't have a McManus so it's a full root and branch look at the mental attitude that's needed.

I agree with the Kerry championship idea and have said the same in the past.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3824 - 16/12/2019 21:23:10    2255226

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Yeah, a good post.

I don't like the Monaghan comparison because that's totally reliant on the form on 1 player. He hadn't a good season last year and look how the rest of the team got exposed.

We don't have a McManus so it's a full root and branch look at the mental attitude that's needed.

I agree with the Kerry championship idea and have said the same in the past."
They still stayed in Division 1. They dont lose their players every year like us. Their population is very similar to ours. I think they are a good comparison to us.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1298 - 17/12/2019 08:36:52    2255276

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We have gone from having a top class U21 setups with Peter Donnelly, Joe McCarthy (RIP), Peter Reilly, Terry Hyland, Finbar O Reilly, Ronan Carolan who are all great football men, in recent years we have let our foot of the gas at U20 & U17 and are no longer competing as we were. Standards have dropped considerably in terms of coaching and management.
Now we have mediocre setups.

theDagger1986 (Cavan) - Posts: 167 - 17/12/2019 11:37:24    2255317

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Replying To fredflint:  "They still stayed in Division 1. They dont lose their players every year like us. Their population is very similar to ours. I think they are a good comparison to us."
To play in division 1 football consistently you need a marquee forward simple as. Dean rock mc manus cillian o Conor, mc Shane, Murphy, Clifford, geaney, etc... Dublin have 4 or 5 marquee forwards.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 182 - 18/12/2019 12:35:11    2255472

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Donegal probaly have 3 marquee forwards. Murphy, McBrearty and Jamie Brennan. You need realistically more then 1 marquee forward to compete at business end of Championship, its maybe why Monaghan have struggled past a quarter final and beyond.
Mayo were lacking another forward down the years too. Moran was excellent, and Connor has his moments, but they needed more.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2031 - 18/12/2019 16:39:09    2255503

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Changing the club might help but we need to get the best players in that is our biggest problem.
We have these under age development squads and make them at under age you are overlooked later on. We need to go back to playing old style football that suit our players and not this nonsense we are at.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 192 - 18/12/2019 23:24:40    2255553

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Yeah, a good post.

I don't like the Monaghan comparison because that's totally reliant on the form on 1 player. He hadn't a good season last year and look how the rest of the team got exposed.

We don't have a McManus so it's a full root and branch look at the mental attitude that's needed.

I agree with the Kerry championship idea and have said the same in the past.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3666 - 16/12/2019 21:23:10

Bullshit............yes hes our best forward but we are not totally reliant on the form of one player...............You's got lucky back in May....You's Deserved your win as you's were better on the day but we were missing Darren Hughes,Niall Kierans,Jack McCarron,Vinny Corey.It will be a different story next May when 3 of those men will be back!

Cavan's problem is committment to the panel for the long haul.Back in 2013 you's had the foundations of a good team,had a decent year to build on and drive it on for 2014.................Killian Clarke took a break in his 3rd season! why??
David Givney...............on and off the panel for various reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eugene Keating same bull shit,Martin Dunne one good year gone aswell...................And its nearly 2020 and your players are still at it. See the pattern there!

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 19/12/2019 21:51:37    2255639

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Replying To hardcore:  "Yeah, a good post.

I don't like the Monaghan comparison because that's totally reliant on the form on 1 player. He hadn't a good season last year and look how the rest of the team got exposed.

We don't have a McManus so it's a full root and branch look at the mental attitude that's needed.

I agree with the Kerry championship idea and have said the same in the past.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3666 - 16/12/2019 21:23:10

Bullshit............yes hes our best forward but we are not totally reliant on the form of one player...............You's got lucky back in May....You's Deserved your win as you's were better on the day but we were missing Darren Hughes,Niall Kierans,Jack McCarron,Vinny Corey.It will be a different story next May when 3 of those men will be back!

Cavan's problem is committment to the panel for the long haul.Back in 2013 you's had the foundations of a good team,had a decent year to build on and drive it on for 2014.................Killian Clarke took a break in his 3rd season! why??
David Givney...............on and off the panel for various reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eugene Keating same bull shit,Martin Dunne one good year gone aswell...................And its nearly 2020 and your players are still at it. See the pattern there!"
The Cavan part of your post is correct.

The Monaghan part is incorrect. Vinny Corey had no impact last year at county level and thus retired, and Cavan have about 4 defenders who could keep Jack McCarron scoreless. A couple of good league games in his first year does not make a marquee forward. He is very predictable and easy to mark these times.

Cavan were well ahead of Monaghan last year in that game and overall, but for the reasons you laid out in the Cavan part of your post, we will more than likely decline and fall below you again this year.

PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 221 - 20/12/2019 09:46:54    2255664

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The Cavan part of your post is correct.

The Monaghan part is incorrect. Vinny Corey had no impact last year at county level and thus retired, and Cavan have about 4 defenders who could keep Jack McCarron scoreless. A couple of good league games in his first year does not make a marquee forward. He is very predictable and easy to mark these times.

Cavan were well ahead of Monaghan last year in that game and overall, but for the reasons you laid out in the Cavan part of your post, we will more than likely decline and fall below you again this year.

PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 20/12/2019 09:46:54

Vinny Corey was Brillant against Fermanagh,only for him we would of been beaten................had he been picked to play against You's he would of marked Martin Reilly thus cutting off the supply of ball he was getting that evening!!!

As for Jack McCarron,he came of the bench for 10 minutes in the league game, kicked 3 points and Relegated you's.........none of your defenders could handle him so your post hold no water.

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 23/12/2019 00:11:41    2255934

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Replying To hardcore:  "The Cavan part of your post is correct.

The Monaghan part is incorrect. Vinny Corey had no impact last year at county level and thus retired, and Cavan have about 4 defenders who could keep Jack McCarron scoreless. A couple of good league games in his first year does not make a marquee forward. He is very predictable and easy to mark these times.

Cavan were well ahead of Monaghan last year in that game and overall, but for the reasons you laid out in the Cavan part of your post, we will more than likely decline and fall below you again this year.

PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 20/12/2019 09:46:54

Vinny Corey was Brillant against Fermanagh,only for him we would of been beaten................had he been picked to play against You's he would of marked Martin Reilly thus cutting off the supply of ball he was getting that evening!!!

As for Jack McCarron,he came of the bench for 10 minutes in the league game, kicked 3 points and Relegated you's.........none of your defenders could handle him so your post hold no water."
Funny how the players who missed the Cavan game would've played well but the 15 who did play didn't play well.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3824 - 23/12/2019 18:21:03    2256024

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Funny how the players who missed the Cavan game would've played well but the 15 who did play didn't play well."
It doesn't matter now anyway, Cavan are in the midst of a player retention crisis AGAIN.


Imagine that Cavan and Monaghan are both company stock, and you're an investor. Who's stock is more likely to rise next year?

Hint - it ain't Cavan.

Monaghan have enjoyed some recent underage success and club success in Ulster. Our best players want out.

Next year isn't going to be pretty for Cavan from what I'm hearing about players opting out.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 370 - 26/12/2019 13:38:56    2256152

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "It doesn't matter now anyway, Cavan are in the midst of a player retention crisis AGAIN.


Imagine that Cavan and Monaghan are both company stock, and you're an investor. Who's stock is more likely to rise next year?

Hint - it ain't Cavan.

Monaghan have enjoyed some recent underage success and club success in Ulster. Our best players want out.

Next year isn't going to be pretty for Cavan from what I'm hearing about players opting out."
I'd agree totally, we can't keep players . Loosing 7 players from last years league starting team is unacceptable if we are to progress , there must be something contributing to this , our next door neighbors don't have the same problem. We are investing millions in a center of excellence, but it will be in vain if we can't our best players playing.

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 284 - 27/12/2019 11:09:19    2256206

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Replying To goonie:  "I'd agree totally, we can't keep players . Loosing 7 players from last years league starting team is unacceptable if we are to progress , there must be something contributing to this , our next door neighbors don't have the same problem. We are investing millions in a center of excellence, but it will be in vain if we can't our best players playing."
I've heard it's a lot more than 7.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 27/12/2019 16:15:02    2256233

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Well there's :
Moynagh
Biscuits
Clarke
Mackey
Rehill
Galligan
Caihaime O Reilly
G.Mckiernan ?
Who else I'm I missing ?

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 284 - 27/12/2019 17:24:51    2256239

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Replying To goonie:  "I'd agree totally, we can't keep players . Loosing 7 players from last years league starting team is unacceptable if we are to progress , there must be something contributing to this , our next door neighbors don't have the same problem. We are investing millions in a center of excellence, but it will be in vain if we can't our best players playing."
Maybe it's the player mentality thats the contributor? It cant be every manager can it?

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1298 - 27/12/2019 17:33:02    2256240

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Replying To fredflint:  "Maybe it's the player mentality thats the contributor? It cant be every manager can it?"
it's hard to figure it out , I don't know the politics of what goes on in the county set up , but what ever is causing it must be sorted out .

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 284 - 27/12/2019 19:47:34    2256258

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