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Replying To indaknow2018: "Ah sir I totally understand Mountnugents position I suppose I just feel strongly for them which is ironic as there was no love lost when we played against each other but that was only on the field of play but isn't that what the GAA is about !! I just seen something on twitter about the game which annoys me which won't be allowed to be posted on here , I don't think rubbing any Corlough persons nose in it will help anyone. Of course their players are going to take insult with articles they wouldn't be playing for their club or be a memeber you would hope if they didn't." I totally agree with this. A few keyboard warriors happy to write about clubs they know nothing about. People making out like Corlough and Maghera are some sort of joke teams. They wear their jersey week in, week out and get talked about online then as if their a joke. The volunteers in that club certainly don't see it that way. The people of Corlough and Maghera don't need to be told they are facing problems and that they are losing games, they need to be acknowledged for having pride in their club and facing the battle in front of them year on year to keep their communities alive.
Westcavan5 (Cavan) - Posts: 27 - 21/08/2018 12:40:32
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Replying To Westcavan5: "I totally agree with this. A few keyboard warriors happy to write about clubs they know nothing about. People making out like Corlough and Maghera are some sort of joke teams. They wear their jersey week in, week out and get talked about online then as if their a joke. The volunteers in that club certainly don't see it that way. The people of Corlough and Maghera don't need to be told they are facing problems and that they are losing games, they need to be acknowledged for having pride in their club and facing the battle in front of them year on year to keep their communities alive." Hopefully none thought I wasn't having a go at Corlough. They are very decent people .
I was simply putting forward my theory as to why Mountnugent kept the throttle on.
None of can afford to sneer or belittle any team or club. None of know what the future holds. There are teams in Junior that were once in the Senior ranks.
I have great admiration for any club that fields a team be it good or bad. They represent their club with pride and honesty and keep it going for future generations.
While we are inclined to judge a club by its success on the field, there is more to it when the surface is scratched. It's the glue that holds most communities together ( particularly in rural areas) and provides a social and sporting outlet for both young and old.
I hope Maghera and Corlough persevere and in years to come, hopefully we will see them rise to prominence again.
StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 21/08/2018 14:17:48
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Replying To rahanman: "The history of Ramor's formation is very relevant and history proves that those who formed Ramor United done the right thing for their parish oh that the same vision had existed in more parishes in this county thick headed thinking and hanging onto what was in the past is the reason why Cavan has 40 clubs without the population to support this number in the long term.
Fewer clubs with more teams in each club would be the way to go allowing players to play at their ability level." So just to be clear; you are saying that Maghera should fold and join up with ramor as per an agreement in 1976?
JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 481 - 21/08/2018 15:20:12
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Replying To JamsieMac: "So just to be clear; you are saying that Maghera should fold and join up with ramor as per an agreement in 1976?" As Ramor is the more recent of the clubs, they should fold and play with Maghera. It would bring the training ground closer for some of the Ramor players !!!!!
StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 21/08/2018 16:13:14
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Replying To StirringIt: "As Ramor is the more recent of the clubs, they should fold and play with Maghera. It would bring the training ground closer for some of the Ramor players !!!!!" Maybe the neighbouring parish of Castlerahan/Munterconnacht should only have one club too. They won a senior championship joining up.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 21/08/2018 16:31:18
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Replying To doratheexplorer: "Maybe the neighbouring parish of Castlerahan/Munterconnacht should only have one club too. They won a senior championship joining up." In fairness, I'm struggling to think of any Munterconnnaught man that would get a jersey for castlerahan at the minute. There's a few Maghera men who'd strengthen Ramor.
GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 21/08/2018 16:40:40
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Replying To GallantJohnJoe: "In fairness, I'm struggling to think of any Munterconnnaught man that would get a jersey for castlerahan at the minute. There's a few Maghera men who'd strengthen Ramor." Things can change very quickly in club football so might not always be that case.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 21/08/2018 16:54:33
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Replying To doratheexplorer: "Things can change very quickly in club football so might not always be that case." Dora
Absolutely correct, more munchies have worn the cavan jersey in the last few years at minor & under 21/20 level than castlerahan. (Maybe not a good benchmark of standard but one none the less).
Castlerahan have (to be fair) been making the best of their ever aging players for a while. Whilst adopting players from near and far to uplift their playing pool, never would they consider their own parishioners in Munterconnaught, nor would I believe that it would be welcomed.
Munchies have 2 teams one of which is in their divisional reserve semi final. folding, amalgamating etc. etc. clubs is difficult to do no matter what the club. Castlerahan only ever looked munterconnaughts way with their own needs in mind like a few years back when they needed game time for the few minors that they had and "allowed them to play with munterconnaught" they never reciprocate this by way of facilitating munterconnaught players.
A more sensible amalgamation would be Maghera & Munterconnaught as is the case with the underage teams. (Cant see it however even if it was allowed under GAA rules).
In summary it is pointless talking about what could happen as I could never see these amalgamations happening unless a rule is brought in by the GAA (can't see that happening either). The incidental success of each club at whatever level will always give some credence to an argument for not amalgamating.
offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts: 157 - 21/08/2018 18:16:34
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Replying To JamsieMac: "So just to be clear; you are saying that Maghera should fold and join up with ramor as per an agreement in 1976?" I have always believed that there should only be one club in my home parish of "Castlerahan and Munterconnaught" call it St Mary's have Men's & Women's Football , Hurling and Camogie use all 3 pitches available. Field teams at Senior / Junior and reserve there should only be 1 Club in any Parish with very few exceptions, Cavan Town due to its population but even then is there a need for four separate Clubs ?
So yes there should only be one club in Lurgan Parish and not three as at present when you include the women all available facilities could still be used. Why not take another leap amalgamate the GAA / LGFA & Camogie into a single entity.
rahanman (Cavan) - Posts: 127 - 21/08/2018 20:30:30
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Maybe if McKiernan and Galligan did it consistently, you could make comments like that, but as it stands, neither have dont it consistently, nor in the big games when it counted." Can only go on what one sees. They are big and strong with direct running power. We dont have many of these to choose from
kanu (Cavan) - Posts: 181 - 21/08/2018 22:08:13
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Replying To rahanman: "I have always believed that there should only be one club in my home parish of "Castlerahan and Munterconnaught" call it St Mary's have Men's & Women's Football , Hurling and Camogie use all 3 pitches available. Field teams at Senior / Junior and reserve there should only be 1 Club in any Parish with very few exceptions, Cavan Town due to its population but even then is there a need for four separate Clubs ?
So yes there should only be one club in Lurgan Parish and not three as at present when you include the women all available facilities could still be used. Why not take another leap amalgamate the GAA / LGFA & Camogie into a single entity." That sounds great in an ideal world. However it's up to Maghera or Munchies to decide their own fate. In the meantime, there appears to be plenty of new housing and new people moving into the Maghera/mullagh side of Virginia. Normal kids if given a choice will choose Ramor (top team) over Maghera (bottom team) thus the cycle continues. I'm trying to say that these people shouldn't have a choice, and should join whichever club is in there immediate vicinity.
JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 481 - 21/08/2018 22:46:14
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Replying To JamsieMac: "That sounds great in an ideal world. However it's up to Maghera or Munchies to decide their own fate. In the meantime, there appears to be plenty of new housing and new people moving into the Maghera/mullagh side of Virginia. Normal kids if given a choice will choose Ramor (top team) over Maghera (bottom team) thus the cycle continues. I'm trying to say that these people shouldn't have a choice, and should join whichever club is in there immediate vicinity." So you think that anyone new moving into that side of the parish should be forced to play with Maghera when some of their neighbours have been mainstays of the Ramor Club. Ultimately geography plays a role here Lurgan and Castlerahan / Munterconnaught run in parallel from Ballyjamesduff up to the Meath border with Lough Ramor . I have neighbours who shop / socialise in BJD but are passionate about Ramor. Munterconnaught would have more afffinity with Virginia as its closer to them. People in Castlerahan shop / socialise in Oldcastle as it is closer to them.
Ultimately people are free to choose what club they join. What do you think of amalgamations only being allowed within a parish ?
rahanman (Cavan) - Posts: 127 - 22/08/2018 07:15:06
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Replying To rahanman: "I have always believed that there should only be one club in my home parish of "Castlerahan and Munterconnaught" call it St Mary's have Men's & Women's Football , Hurling and Camogie use all 3 pitches available. Field teams at Senior / Junior and reserve there should only be 1 Club in any Parish with very few exceptions, Cavan Town due to its population but even then is there a need for four separate Clubs ?
So yes there should only be one club in Lurgan Parish and not three as at present when you include the women all available facilities could still be used. Why not take another leap amalgamate the GAA / LGFA & Camogie into a single entity." I assume you are on the Executive of your club or have attended your last AGM and forwarded a motion for an amalgamation? Too many people on here with opinions but won't back it up with actions.
ballygowanwater (Cavan) - Posts: 207 - 22/08/2018 09:52:24
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Replying To GallantJohnJoe: "In fairness, I'm struggling to think of any Munterconnnaught man that would get a jersey for castlerahan at the minute. There's a few Maghera men who'd strengthen Ramor." Munchies have a good underage set up and have beaten Castlerahan in recent times at under age. Munchies are on a different planet to Maghera at present with several excellent young players coming through far superior to anything Castlerahan have. Could you name the players on the Maghera team at present who would strengthen Ramor? The Munchies have several that Castlerahan or any Senior team would like to have.
diver (Cavan) - Posts: 39 - 22/08/2018 11:02:38
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Replying To diver: "Munchies have a good underage set up and have beaten Castlerahan in recent times at under age. Munchies are on a different planet to Maghera at present with several excellent young players coming through far superior to anything Castlerahan have. Could you name the players on the Maghera team at present who would strengthen Ramor? The Munchies have several that Castlerahan or any Senior team would like to have." I'm pretty sure Munterconnaught are amalgamated with Maghera and/or Mountnugent at underage level and haven't had a stand alone Muntercounnaught team at underage from U13 up in recent years so I don't know how they would have beaten Castlerahan. That saying they do have some good young players. Can't see them making the quarter finals of Junior though as I feel Drumalee will beat them & only one win so far over Drung so far from being on a different planet to anyone...
StayDownKing (Cavan) - Posts: 24 - 22/08/2018 12:39:33
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A poster on this site recently said "Youd want to learn the history of football in the parish of lurgan before you make ignorant comments like that. Virginia blues agreed to change name and colours to Ramor united in order to unite whole parish in 1976 (lurgan virginia & maghera). This was in full agreement with the people of maghera apart from the few families who refused to give up maghera after all was agreed. Thats their choice fair play to them .... but dont blame the families who choose to unite not divide"
So let's talk about the facts and decisions that were made that had a long reaching effect on football in the parish of Lurgan for over 40 years.
You wouldn't think it now some 40 years later, but the clubs in the Lurgan parish are victims of their own success. In 1971, the Maghera McFinns, Lurgan GFC and Virginia Blues amalgamated for the senior championship under the name Ramor Utd. The east Cavan parish was going through a rich period in its footballing history with cups aplenty returning to the parish year after year. The MacFinns won the Junior championship in 1973, and then went on to win the Intermediate championship the following year 1974, pushing them into the senior grade for 1975. And in 1975, the Virginia Blues club then won the Intermediate championship, pushing them to senior for 1976. But this victory had a devastating effect on the parish, the ripples of which are still felt today.
On top of the MacFinns intermediate victory in 1974, the Ramor Utd amalgamation also won the senior championship for the first time. With two extremely strong intermediate teams in the parish at the time, this team was made up of men who were legends in both clubs, many who went on to represent their county. But the following year, when Virginia Blues won the intermediate, it was determined by the Co Board, that two senior clubs couldn't enter an amalgamation into the senior championship in 1976. They would either have to amalgamate as one club, or both clubs would have to stand on their own two feet.
The Ramor Utd wiki page says "A well-attended meeting in the courthouse in Virginia in 1976, under the chairmanship of County Board Chairman, Paddy C Donoghue, saw the very large enthusiastic crowd from all corners of the parish favouring a more permanent alliance, namely Ramor United GFC, as a single parish club". However, speaking to people from both sides around that time, this is far from true.
I've been told that the Maghera MacFinns met first to discuss the situation. It was felt that whereas the amalgamation had served a purpose to get their players senior football, they were now a senior team in their own right, and a number of members wanted to continue as the MacFinns. And why not? They were an old and proud club with a great history. And some players felt that joining the amalgamation would see a number of emerging senior footballers who had come through the ranks from junior to senior lose out in an amalgamated team.
But there was number of members who felt that uniting the parish was visionary. They looked to the future and seen championship after championship raining down on Lurgan, given the quality of player living in the parish.
Now hindsight is an amazing thing. And if the members of the Maghera MacFinns GFC could've foreseen the consequences of their actions on that fateful Sunday evening in 1976, maybe things would've been different. But they decided on a vote, and urban legend has it that the club was split evenly in two, 50% for and 50% against the amalgamation. That was until a lone member arrived late and tipped the balance in the favour of amalgamating the clubs, by one single vote. Now legend has it that this lone voter was briefed outside before he entered the dressing rooms, and was ill advised on how the finely balanced the vote actually was. But that is mere hearsay and I can't confirm or deny that this actually happened!
What happened next is well documented. Those who voted to remain, camped themselves in Pairc MacFinn and said they were going nowhere. They said the vote was invalid and that a single vote didn't represent the majority view of the club members (this all sounds very familiar!). They didn't want to just walk away from their home club. But the Co Board ploughed ahead and chaired a meeting in Virginia Courthouse in 1976, and declared Ramor Utd as the parish team in the senior championship.
A number of Maghera players played with Ramor in 1976, and the Maghera MacFinns club fell apart. The players that didn't want to play with Ramor all moved on, and clubs like Ballyhaise, Mountnugent and even a number of neighbouring clubs in Co Meath benefitted as players transferred rather than play with a depleted club. The MacFinns lost 14 of the starting 15 from the 1974 intermediate team. But the following year the MacFinns pulled together a team for the junior championship and started their journey all over again. A journey that continues today.
So please don't paint this as something that everyone wanted, a simple decision that was hijacked by a few from a renegade club. I don't agree there was "full agreement" from the Maghera MacFinns for a "united" parish club. And I wouldn't agree that "99%" of the people in the parish agreed to what went on. History shows a Co Board enforcing a rule, and that rule having a serious knock on effect for both Ramor Utd and the Maghera MacFinns for years to come. And those "few families that refused to give up Maghera", well good on them. This wasn't a failing club or a club at its lowest ebb in 1976. This was a senior club at its height, knocked down by bureaucracy and bad decision making. And I don't believe that the Virginia Blues players from that time all rowed in behind this decision either. It wouldn't make sense as a fringe player on a senior team to welcome with open arms a player from a different club, who was about to steal your place, no matter how much of a visionary you were!
2DoorCinemaClub (Cavan) - Posts: 3 - 22/08/2018 12:51:58
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Replying To ballygowanwater: "I assume you are on the Executive of your club or have attended your last AGM and forwarded a motion for an amalgamation? Too many people on here with opinions but won't back it up with actions." I am not currently an officer of the club but have been in the past. I volunteer where possible and attend club meetings and while I would like see a whole parish team I know it is very unlikely that it will ever happen. Blackwater Gaels have regularly beaten Castlerahan at underage level and when St Mary's won the Senior Championship there were more Munterconnaught men on that team.
Clubs are facing an almighty challenge to engage their youth and bring players through to adult level competition subdividing resources helps no one.
rahanman (Cavan) - Posts: 127 - 22/08/2018 13:37:18
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Replying To 2DoorCinemaClub: "A poster on this site recently said "Youd want to learn the history of football in the parish of lurgan before you make ignorant comments like that. Virginia blues agreed to change name and colours to Ramor united in order to unite whole parish in 1976 (lurgan virginia & maghera). This was in full agreement with the people of maghera apart from the few families who refused to give up maghera after all was agreed. Thats their choice fair play to them .... but dont blame the families who choose to unite not divide"
So let's talk about the facts and decisions that were made that had a long reaching effect on football in the parish of Lurgan for over 40 years.
You wouldn't think it now some 40 years later, but the clubs in the Lurgan parish are victims of their own success. In 1971, the Maghera McFinns, Lurgan GFC and Virginia Blues amalgamated for the senior championship under the name Ramor Utd. The east Cavan parish was going through a rich period in its footballing history with cups aplenty returning to the parish year after year. The MacFinns won the Junior championship in 1973, and then went on to win the Intermediate championship the following year 1974, pushing them into the senior grade for 1975. And in 1975, the Virginia Blues club then won the Intermediate championship, pushing them to senior for 1976. But this victory had a devastating effect on the parish, the ripples of which are still felt today.
On top of the MacFinns intermediate victory in 1974, the Ramor Utd amalgamation also won the senior championship for the first time. With two extremely strong intermediate teams in the parish at the time, this team was made up of men who were legends in both clubs, many who went on to represent their county. But the following year, when Virginia Blues won the intermediate, it was determined by the Co Board, that two senior clubs couldn't enter an amalgamation into the senior championship in 1976. They would either have to amalgamate as one club, or both clubs would have to stand on their own two feet.
The Ramor Utd wiki page says "A well-attended meeting in the courthouse in Virginia in 1976, under the chairmanship of County Board Chairman, Paddy C Donoghue, saw the very large enthusiastic crowd from all corners of the parish favouring a more permanent alliance, namely Ramor United GFC, as a single parish club". However, speaking to people from both sides around that time, this is far from true.
I've been told that the Maghera MacFinns met first to discuss the situation. It was felt that whereas the amalgamation had served a purpose to get their players senior football, they were now a senior team in their own right, and a number of members wanted to continue as the MacFinns. And why not? They were an old and proud club with a great history. And some players felt that joining the amalgamation would see a number of emerging senior footballers who had come through the ranks from junior to senior lose out in an amalgamated team.
But there was number of members who felt that uniting the parish was visionary. They looked to the future and seen championship after championship raining down on Lurgan, given the quality of player living in the parish.
Now hindsight is an amazing thing. And if the members of the Maghera MacFinns GFC could've foreseen the consequences of their actions on that fateful Sunday evening in 1976, maybe things would've been different. But they decided on a vote, and urban legend has it that the club was split evenly in two, 50% for and 50% against the amalgamation. That was until a lone member arrived late and tipped the balance in the favour of amalgamating the clubs, by one single vote. Now legend has it that this lone voter was briefed outside before he entered the dressing rooms, and was ill advised on how the finely balanced the vote actually was. But that is mere hearsay and I can't confirm or deny that this actually happened!
What happened next is well documented. Those who voted to remain, camped themselves in Pairc MacFinn and said they were going nowhere. They said the vote was invalid and that a single vote didn't represent the majority view of the club members (this all sounds very familiar!). They didn't want to just walk away from their home club. But the Co Board ploughed ahead and chaired a meeting in Virginia Courthouse in 1976, and declared Ramor Utd as the parish team in the senior championship.
A number of Maghera players played with Ramor in 1976, and the Maghera MacFinns club fell apart. The players that didn't want to play with Ramor all moved on, and clubs like Ballyhaise, Mountnugent and even a number of neighbouring clubs in Co Meath benefitted as players transferred rather than play with a depleted club. The MacFinns lost 14 of the starting 15 from the 1974 intermediate team. But the following year the MacFinns pulled together a team for the junior championship and started their journey all over again. A journey that continues today.
So please don't paint this as something that everyone wanted, a simple decision that was hijacked by a few from a renegade club. I don't agree there was "full agreement" from the Maghera MacFinns for a "united" parish club. And I wouldn't agree that "99%" of the people in the parish agreed to what went on. History shows a Co Board enforcing a rule, and that rule having a serious knock on effect for both Ramor Utd and the Maghera MacFinns for years to come. And those "few families that refused to give up Maghera", well good on them. This wasn't a failing club or a club at its lowest ebb in 1976. This was a senior club at its height, knocked down by bureaucracy and bad decision making. And I don't believe that the Virginia Blues players from that time all rowed in behind this decision either. It wouldn't make sense as a fringe player on a senior team to welcome with open arms a player from a different club, who was about to steal your place, no matter how much of a visionary you were!" Even in 1976 the County Board bullied their way as they have since to the present day.
There should be a rule that at least 2/3rds majority has to be won before anything can be changed not one vote.
Fair play to those that stood by their history and their club Maghera McFinns.
Good post good reading and it's still sadly the same old story.
Dan Daly great servant we could do with many more like him. I hope he is keeping well.
cavanexile11 (Dublin) - Posts: 25 - 22/08/2018 16:27:13
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Gonna bring this debate back to the main topic on this thread, final round of Junior Championship matches this weekend. Some fantastic games in prospect, with plenty of teams still capable of getting into the Quarter-Finals. Will there be any shocks on the cards? If all goes to plan, I expect at least 7 of the 8 teams who get thru will fancy their chances at winning it out. Great Championship to date.
GAAhead2017 (Cavan) - Posts: 82 - 22/08/2018 16:53:27
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Replying To GAAhead2017: "Gonna bring this debate back to the main topic on this thread, final round of Junior Championship matches this weekend. Some fantastic games in prospect, with plenty of teams still capable of getting into the Quarter-Finals. Will there be any shocks on the cards? If all goes to plan, I expect at least 7 of the 8 teams who get thru will fancy their chances at winning it out. Great Championship to date." Talking to the lads at work Drumlane would be slight favourites, followed by Denn and Killinkere. Where should my money go$$$???
royalass (Meath) - Posts: 89 - 22/08/2018 22:42:49
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