Cavan Forum

McKenna Cup

(Oldest Posts First)

Mattie Donnelly and Niall Sludden are the only survivors from the Tyrone team that hammered Cavan by 21 points on Wednesday night for Sunday's McKenna Cup semi-final against Fermanagh.

Manager Mickey Harte has completely overhauled his side as the Red Hands close in on a seventh successive McKenna Cup.

Tyrone (SF v Fermanagh): Mickey O'Neill; Aidan McCrory, Cathal McCarron, Michael Cassidy; Ciaran McLaughlin, Mattie Donnelly, Kieran McGeary; Ben McDonnell, Declan McClure; Richard Donnelly, Niall Sludden, Conal McCann; Darren McCurry, Ronan McHugh, Connor McAliskey.

They have a huge base to be able to do this. I wish we had the luxury. ???

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4479 - 12/01/2018 18:26:29    2068008

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Replying To seanorinn:  "Mattie Donnelly and Niall Sludden are the only survivors from the Tyrone team that hammered Cavan by 21 points on Wednesday night for Sunday's McKenna Cup semi-final against Fermanagh.

Manager Mickey Harte has completely overhauled his side as the Red Hands close in on a seventh successive McKenna Cup.

Tyrone (SF v Fermanagh): Mickey O'Neill; Aidan McCrory, Cathal McCarron, Michael Cassidy; Ciaran McLaughlin, Mattie Donnelly, Kieran McGeary; Ben McDonnell, Declan McClure; Richard Donnelly, Niall Sludden, Conal McCann; Darren McCurry, Ronan McHugh, Connor McAliskey.

They have a huge base to be able to do this. I wish we had the luxury. ???"
Do you still see that Harte has kept an experienced spine of the team.
Even though he experiments he always keeps an experienced spine of the team.
That's something we never did down the years with any manager.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 946 - 12/01/2018 21:12:11    2068044

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Do you still see that Harte has kept an experienced spine of the team.
Even though he experiments he always keeps an experienced spine of the team.
That's something we never did down the years with any manager."
Neither midfielder is experienced. Donnelly rarely plays centre back.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 1817 - 13/01/2018 00:10:30    2068081

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Do you still see that Harte has kept an experienced spine of the team.
Even though he experiments he always keeps an experienced spine of the team.
That's something we never did down the years with any manager."
Do you still see that Harte has kept an experienced spine of the team.
Even though he experiments he always keeps an experienced spine of the team.
That's something we never did down the years with any manager.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - 12/01/2018 21:12:11 2068044

As long as I have been writing on this forum many times people read between the lines BUT I alway's advocated that without a spine you don't have a foundation. Sadly It's been a very long time since I saw what one could call a half decent spine I suppose one could say we had a reasonable spine in 1997 but I feel we had a stronger spine in 2002 but sadly disrupted

If I had a say "which I don't" but I can tell you I would love to be able to walk up to the manager sit down with him and discus this specific area of building our team. Players with a brain a football brain a player awareness brain and above all not so far up his backside thinking he is the only person on the field. We have our goalkeeper there is no question about this and has done well for us as many know so we need to get a full back center half back two midfield player's a center half forward and a full forward. Establish these lads then proceed to build the ribs but is this happening I have not seen it in years.

Maybe attitude from management towards players or attitude from player's towards management this needs to be resolved soon if this is the case,
We have players being used out of position and so on.
Leadership from all quarters is paramount to us as a team and the sooner we get this from all quarters the better on the pitch and on the side line.
We can talk about players not making them self's available for one reason or another this need to be resolved. I know we will have many of the last years team but the fresh blood need to introduced gradually but if they are better than the present county senior player well they get the slot and make others work to remove him by training harder.
People on the bench and not working with the team don't deserve to walk back into the starting 15 it's unfair and demoralising.
We have to get players some have not even been called in if what they say is true.
Give them an incentive to play for the shirt and with heart.
Tomas Corr played with heart we need 15 with his type of passion. Anthony Forde played with heart he led by example
Time to sit down even stand on the sideline and get players to play for their place now and not expect it because they were the senior panel last year. New brush sweeps clean. Playing a lad center half back when he is a 40 man or a player played full forward when he is a midfielder these are examples and need to be addressed.
I could go on but will stop boring you. Sean

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4479 - 13/01/2018 00:37:17    2068082

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Replying To seanorinn:  "Do you still see that Harte has kept an experienced spine of the team.
Even though he experiments he always keeps an experienced spine of the team.
That's something we never did down the years with any manager.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - 12/01/2018 21:12:11 2068044

As long as I have been writing on this forum many times people read between the lines BUT I alway's advocated that without a spine you don't have a foundation. Sadly It's been a very long time since I saw what one could call a half decent spine I suppose one could say we had a reasonable spine in 1997 but I feel we had a stronger spine in 2002 but sadly disrupted

If I had a say "which I don't" but I can tell you I would love to be able to walk up to the manager sit down with him and discus this specific area of building our team. Players with a brain a football brain a player awareness brain and above all not so far up his backside thinking he is the only person on the field. We have our goalkeeper there is no question about this and has done well for us as many know so we need to get a full back center half back two midfield player's a center half forward and a full forward. Establish these lads then proceed to build the ribs but is this happening I have not seen it in years.

Maybe attitude from management towards players or attitude from player's towards management this needs to be resolved soon if this is the case,
We have players being used out of position and so on.
Leadership from all quarters is paramount to us as a team and the sooner we get this from all quarters the better on the pitch and on the side line.
We can talk about players not making them self's available for one reason or another this need to be resolved. I know we will have many of the last years team but the fresh blood need to introduced gradually but if they are better than the present county senior player well they get the slot and make others work to remove him by training harder.
People on the bench and not working with the team don't deserve to walk back into the starting 15 it's unfair and demoralising.
We have to get players some have not even been called in if what they say is true.
Give them an incentive to play for the shirt and with heart.
Tomas Corr played with heart we need 15 with his type of passion. Anthony Forde played with heart he led by example
Time to sit down even stand on the sideline and get players to play for their place now and not expect it because they were the senior panel last year. New brush sweeps clean. Playing a lad center half back when he is a 40 man or a player played full forward when he is a midfielder these are examples and need to be addressed.
I could go on but will stop boring you. Sean"
Isn't this the job of the manager Sean? The year we got promoted from div2 we had a decent spine when all were fit. Galligan goals, moynagh or mcenroe CB, mckiernan & Corr midfield, Mackey/Mcvitty Cf and Givney at FF. Before anyone starts I know these players didn't always line up that way. There was a lot of hope that we were back on the right track that year. The question is why did it go so wrong since? Uninspiring manager - I think that's some of the issue. But players that just don't want it enough and walked away. That's there prerogative but let's call it what it is.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1228 - 13/01/2018 09:32:08    2068092

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Replying To fredflint:  "Isn't this the job of the manager Sean? The year we got promoted from div2 we had a decent spine when all were fit. Galligan goals, moynagh or mcenroe CB, mckiernan & Corr midfield, Mackey/Mcvitty Cf and Givney at FF. Before anyone starts I know these players didn't always line up that way. There was a lot of hope that we were back on the right track that year. The question is why did it go so wrong since? Uninspiring manager - I think that's some of the issue. But players that just don't want it enough and walked away. That's there prerogative but let's call it what it is."
fredflint: I agree with you but I feel and I know the buck stops with the manager. I said I would not take any notice of the year past because he inherited the players he had. A substitution was made during the Tipperary match that turned the game on it's back and I can say the manager did not make that substitution unless it was pre-planned at half time.
Anyway it's past we need to sort our spine and stop playing natural players that will fit into the spine in other positions. I will name one player not on the panel or maybe he is I don't know that's Robert Maloney Durham he would be one of the key players in the spine. I would get Tomas Corr back and play him with McKiernan in midfield if they want to use what I think they will use it will not work. If Tomas is not suitable for midfield well what about playing him in the number 6 shirt for he is a man of passion and a great heart. No reflection on James McEnroe. Remember he scored two points against Tipp and from what I could see he was playing well and was substituted I cannot for the life of me understand this decision.

Why should any manager depend on stats men relaying what is happening on the pitch sure if any manager cannot see what is happening why don't they go and sit with the stats men and make their decisions and then relay them to the secretary to make the substitutions would that not be the right thing maybe we might get unbiased decisions then.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4479 - 13/01/2018 11:53:54    2068105

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How many players have we gone through since 2011 winning u21 side?????
Have we a regular full back? Centre half? Centre forward? Full forward? No we haven't?
Have we even 1 regular for these positions... no we haven't..
that's successive managers fault not just Matties.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 946 - 13/01/2018 15:58:43    2068126

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "How many players have we gone through since 2011 winning u21 side?????
Have we a regular full back? Centre half? Centre forward? Full forward? No we haven't?
Have we even 1 regular for these positions... no we haven't..
that's successive managers fault not just Matties."
So it's all the fault of successive managers, players have no responsibilities themselves, No?

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1228 - 13/01/2018 17:33:48    2068136

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "How many players have we gone through since 2011 winning u21 side?????
Have we a regular full back? Centre half? Centre forward? Full forward? No we haven't?
Have we even 1 regular for these positions... no we haven't..
that's successive managers fault not just Matties."
As a matter of interest, how many of these winning U21 teams actually won an All Ireland?? At best you pick up 3, maybe 4 of a really successful U21 All Ireland winning team, and maybe 1-2 of a provincial winning side, so we are deluded if we all think that we have/had a fountain of talent at our disposal. We were punching above our weight to reach Division 1 2 years ago and I don't believe we have the management in place to get us to that position again.

ballygowanwater (Cavan) - Posts: 197 - 13/01/2018 20:07:56    2068153

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Replying To ballygowanwater:  "As a matter of interest, how many of these winning U21 teams actually won an All Ireland?? At best you pick up 3, maybe 4 of a really successful U21 All Ireland winning team, and maybe 1-2 of a provincial winning side, so we are deluded if we all think that we have/had a fountain of talent at our disposal. We were punching above our weight to reach Division 1 2 years ago and I don't believe we have the management in place to get us to that position again."
I would say 90% of Roscommons panel are lads off our u21 teams that were going well the same time as yourselves at that level. We didn't win an All Ireland either

Cuckoosinging (Roscommon) - Posts: 992 - 13/01/2018 20:43:07    2068159

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Replying To ballygowanwater:  "As a matter of interest, how many of these winning U21 teams actually won an All Ireland?? At best you pick up 3, maybe 4 of a really successful U21 All Ireland winning team, and maybe 1-2 of a provincial winning side, so we are deluded if we all think that we have/had a fountain of talent at our disposal. We were punching above our weight to reach Division 1 2 years ago and I don't believe we have the management in place to get us to that position again."
I don't think we were punching above our weight to reach div 1, and if terry had to stay on and David givney who was a big reason we reached div 1 he was playing really well at full forward I think we would be still in div 1.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 705 - 13/01/2018 21:44:44    2068166

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Replying To blueman1903:  "I don't think we were punching above our weight to reach div 1, and if terry had to stay on and David givney who was a big reason we reached div 1 he was playing really well at full forward I think we would be still in div 1."
All this talk about a spine brings me back to the issue of player turn-over. in 2013 we had a good full- back in Rory Duune, A good Centre-Back in Alan Clarke we didn't have a settled midfield but I believe Damien Reilly and Givney or Corr were capable enough we had mackey at centre forward and Martin Dunne or Keating or Givney at Full forward. fast forward a few years and we appear to have none of these. Not alone that but other players who should be stepping up to the plate are missing too. where is Argue, Paul O'Connor, Joe Dillon, Turlough Mooney. We simply have to keep players involved. Why do we lose so many while orher counties can rely on their core players year-in year-out.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5227 - 14/01/2018 00:28:10    2068187

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Replying To s goldrick:  "All this talk about a spine brings me back to the issue of player turn-over. in 2013 we had a good full- back in Rory Duune, A good Centre-Back in Alan Clarke we didn't have a settled midfield but I believe Damien Reilly and Givney or Corr were capable enough we had mackey at centre forward and Martin Dunne or Keating or Givney at Full forward. fast forward a few years and we appear to have none of these. Not alone that but other players who should be stepping up to the plate are missing too. where is Argue, Paul O'Connor, Joe Dillon, Turlough Mooney. We simply have to keep players involved. Why do we lose so many while orher counties can rely on their core players year-in year-out."
Argue, Paul O'Connor, Joe Dillon, Turlough Mooney. We simply have to keep players involved. Why do we lose so many while orher counties can rely on their core players year-in year-out.
s goldrick (Cavan) - 14/01/2018 00:28:10 2068187

Maybe they are training as we were told the players that played in the Mckenna cup were only experimental players.

If Argue was judged on his club performances over the last two years he would not get on any county panel. Yet I know he can play but he is being played out of position and does not know what to do thats not his fault however.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4479 - 14/01/2018 10:49:09    2068201

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Of course there's going to be turnover. Lads get old, injured, lose interest, lose form, priorities change etc. Some amount of lamenting on here. 2011 was 7 years ago. Whatever way you cut it most of the lads involved at the minute will be players from U21 squads going back those years. What's management supposed to do, stuff 3 or 4 players into the one jersey to accommodate everyone?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1055 - 14/01/2018 11:27:56    2068207

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The reason for the huge turnover is simple... Lads are not going to put in the levels of commitment that is now been demanded of them for no reward other than the honour of putting on the County jersey... The GAA need to wake up and see the problem... Those making the huge demands are getting paid (well paid) while those giving the commitment are getting nothing...so it does t take a genius to work out that this can only lead to one thing.....a massive turn off to playing County football..... It's only a matter of time till we have a situation where some County team will struggle to field a team...

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 292 - 14/01/2018 12:31:57    2068215

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Of course there's going to be turnover. Lads get old, injured, lose interest, lose form, priorities change etc. Some amount of lamenting on here. 2011 was 7 years ago. Whatever way you cut it most of the lads involved at the minute will be players from U21 squads going back those years. What's management supposed to do, stuff 3 or 4 players into the one jersey to accommodate everyone?"
As usual, you're completely deflecting from the context.

Obviously some players choose to opt out for different reasons. Nobody is disputing that. But in Cavan, key players in recent years have decided to opt out completely. We seem to have a problem keeping a hold of our best players, so it's no wonder we're never in with a shout of winning anything. Some amount of lamenting you say? Oh do forgive us, we should still be on an emotional high from 1997 I suppose!

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 339 - 14/01/2018 12:51:54    2068220

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "As usual, you're completely deflecting from the context.

Obviously some players choose to opt out for different reasons. Nobody is disputing that. But in Cavan, key players in recent years have decided to opt out completely. We seem to have a problem keeping a hold of our best players, so it's no wonder we're never in with a shout of winning anything. Some amount of lamenting you say? Oh do forgive us, we should still be on an emotional high from 1997 I suppose!"
What key players have opted out? Off the top of my head key players for the last 7 years - K Clarke, R Dunne, J McLoughlin, J McEnroe, A Clarke, F Flanagan, D McVeety, T Corr, D Givney, G McKiernan, M Reilly, E Keating, Mackey. Later additions would be S Johnson, C Brady, P Faulkner, G Smith, C Moynagh. I'm probably missing a few but for consistently being seen as first team that's not far off. A Clarke is retired. R Dunne never fully recovered from injury. Flanagan, McEnroe, Givney, Keating can't/won't commit. Corr and Johnson probably will retire. Player turnover is part and parcel of sport and team progression. Lots of other players have been tried and fell short. These same players have been criticized and deemed not good enough and management ridiculed for picking them but of course as soon as they leave the panel they are lamented as All Stars lost. There's posters here crying about player turnover and no selection consistency who have previously cried about management having favourites and the team picking itself. So which is it?
League starts in a few weeks and I certainly hope there are a few new additions because that is a healthy sign. At least wait till a few games in and see where we're at and what the championship 15 may be before we start writing the yearly obituaries.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1055 - 14/01/2018 14:46:52    2068232

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