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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To legendzxix:  "In my humble opinion:
There are 7 or 8 league spots in the All Ireland.
Q1 - draw higher 8 or 9 against the lower 8 or 9, separate draw for home advantage.
Q2 - draw higher 7 or 8 against the lower 7 or 8, separate draw for home advantage.

It should be perfectly reasonable to use league ranking for qualifiers for the 7 or 8 league spots."
Ok, im confused now.
You are advocating using league ranking for the 7 or 8 spots which qualify from league. I see the logic there.
How do you rank the provincial finalists? Do all the league teams go in one pot( regardless of league position) and the provincial finalists in the other( regardless or who wins or loses) or what.
Apart from that it seems pretty similar to whats happening this season.
I can only give my opinion on Tailteann Cup. I enjoy the competition. I come from the hurling part of limerick and the tailteann Cup got me watching limerick football for the first time last season. I acknowledge that the winner is somewhat predictable but the journey was enjoyable none the less. We got to see Limerick footballers in CP in the summer and that is to be celebrated. Its not perfect but it gives meaningful games and some hope of success. Your proposal is designed to kill it off and it doesnt even concern you and never will

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 30/04/2026 13:09:17    2669992

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Replying To BlastCalyle:  "https://x.com/JohnFogartyIrl/status/2049799890339791194?s=20

Looks like draw will be on Monday.

It also reports that no repeat provincial pairings are permitted - which is new I think as wasn't mentioned in the master fixture list. But makes sense."
Here is hoping for a tough draw for Cork and Kerry

Cork V Meath and Kerry v Donegal would even up the handy draw they got so far.

Would teach Meath and Donegal not to be losing to Div 3 teams in future.

Hoping for Mayo to be away to Galway, Westmeath/Kildare, Ulster finalists.

Highly likely Mayo will be away to Kerry though (we have a way of finding a tough draw after losing in Connacht) - we have gone down there after losing to the Rossies and beaten them.

for the new system to be accepted, there will need to be a few big clashes the first weekend.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1785 - 30/04/2026 13:31:47    2669996

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "But sure there was no seeding system at all in place in the old back door system apart from(maybe) which round you were knocked out in the provincial championship. I think the runners up went in later but I may be wrong on that.
This completely goes against everything that you and others have been saying for weeks now. The prevailing argument here has been that provincial championship performance = bad and league performance = good. Therefore, they have argument, the link should be broken between the provincial championship and the All Ireland series. Granted, one or two have put up the straw man argument that the provincial championship ( if so prestigious) should be able to stand up as an independent competition, but all of this persuasion argue for seedlings based on league performance. This is totally contrary to the " back door" system. So which is it?"
The devil is in the details.

The old back door system wasn't great because teams could get a very handy run to All Ireland semifinals as happened with Kerry a few times.

The old back door wasn't great because Provincial finalists could get to the last 12 handily enough by winning 1 game.

London got to a Connacht final having beaten Leitrim one time.

The new system isn't great because the reward for getting to a Provincial final is still too great.

I like your idea on only Provincial champions progressing and with a qualifier series that'd mean that teams wouldn't be sitting around idle after an early provincial exit.

I don't think Provincial finalists should go straight through to the All Ireland series.

I also think it's tough to have a good All Ireland format after a qualifiers series. To go from qualifiers to the 2026 16 team All Ireland format is a strange change of pace.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4656 - 30/04/2026 14:29:31    2670008

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It causes some issues.

Qualifiers made a lot of sense.

Teams lose in their province but then there's the more fairer route of an All Ireland based qualifier system that evens things out.

The league being before the championship and determining All Ireland entry lowers the jeopardy of the Provincials.

It's somewhat awkward too how only division 2 really determines the Championship entry. Division 3 champions can make but even then sometimes it's obvious that they won't because of how a Provincial draw lines up.

I do think it's hard to have All Ireland qualifiers and a sensible 2nd tier championship though."
I think Championship based Promotion and Relegation should be the way ahead.

Kildare are in the All Ireland this year as they won the Tailteann cup last year. No matter how well they do this year they've effectively been relegated to the Tailteann cup for next year due to league performance without a ball being kicked in the championship.

It happened to Down last year - They won the Tailteann cup in '24 but being relegated from Division 2 in '25 cost them their guaranteed spot this year despite finishing 2nd in their group in the 2025 championship. To be sure of a path back in - all they have to do is follow up a win over last years Finalists Donegal and beat the 2024 champions Armagh to earn their place in there. Of course if Kildare beat Westmeath they're in on the basis of winning Division 3. There's a lot wrong with that situation.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 491 - 30/04/2026 14:29:45    2670009

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Ok, im confused now.
You are advocating using league ranking for the 7 or 8 spots which qualify from league. I see the logic there.
How do you rank the provincial finalists? Do all the league teams go in one pot( regardless of league position) and the provincial finalists in the other( regardless or who wins or loses) or what.
Apart from that it seems pretty similar to whats happening this season.
I can only give my opinion on Tailteann Cup. I enjoy the competition. I come from the hurling part of limerick and the tailteann Cup got me watching limerick football for the first time last season. I acknowledge that the winner is somewhat predictable but the journey was enjoyable none the less. We got to see Limerick footballers in CP in the summer and that is to be celebrated. Its not perfect but it gives meaningful games and some hope of success. Your proposal is designed to kill it off and it doesnt even concern you and never will"
I'll take the straightforward example of the Tailteann winner making their provincial final. Rank the 24 non finalists 1 to 24 based on league ranking.
Qualifier Round 1:
9 to 16 drawn against 17 to 24.
Qualifier Round 2:
1 to 8 drawn against Q2 winners.
All Ireland Round 1:
8 provincial finalists drawn against 8 Q2 winners.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9699 - 30/04/2026 15:03:47    2670018

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I'll take the straightforward example of the Tailteann winner making their provincial final. Rank the 24 non finalists 1 to 24 based on league ranking.
Qualifier Round 1:
9 to 16 drawn against 17 to 24.
Qualifier Round 2:
1 to 8 drawn against Q2 winners.
All Ireland Round 1:
8 provincial finalists drawn against 8 Q2 winners."
So no tailteann cup then....

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 30/04/2026 17:01:39    2670041

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Replying To brianb:  "I think Championship based Promotion and Relegation should be the way ahead.

Kildare are in the All Ireland this year as they won the Tailteann cup last year. No matter how well they do this year they've effectively been relegated to the Tailteann cup for next year due to league performance without a ball being kicked in the championship.

It happened to Down last year - They won the Tailteann cup in '24 but being relegated from Division 2 in '25 cost them their guaranteed spot this year despite finishing 2nd in their group in the 2025 championship. To be sure of a path back in - all they have to do is follow up a win over last years Finalists Donegal and beat the 2024 champions Armagh to earn their place in there. Of course if Kildare beat Westmeath they're in on the basis of winning Division 3. There's a lot wrong with that situation."
I've a big issue with the league being the qualifying criteria for the championship. It should be championship performance determining it. It opens up a route to more games but also having a high bar to progressing in the competition. When eliminated teams have to avoid relegation.

How to incorporate provincials into that without things getting very complicated is the problem.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4656 - 30/04/2026 17:34:50    2670053

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "So no tailteann cup then...."
Well if the qualifiers came back as suggested, my humble suggestion would be for the Tailteann to go straight knockout.
Say Limerick lose to Cork in a Munster quarter final and lose to Cavan in Qualifier Round 1 - if they went on to lose a game in the Tailteann, their summer would be over after a third defeat.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9699 - 30/04/2026 20:52:23    2670073

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Well if the qualifiers came back as suggested, my humble suggestion would be for the Tailteann to go straight knockout.
Say Limerick lose to Cork in a Munster quarter final and lose to Cavan in Qualifier Round 1 - if they went on to lose a game in the Tailteann, their summer would be over after a third defeat."
Nah, not for me im afraid. You are downgrading a decent competition there. It deserves respect in its own right.
Anyway, I think we are going to have 2 16s for the foreseeable future. The only debate is the format they play in.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 30/04/2026 23:49:21    2670095

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I've a big issue with the league being the qualifying criteria for the championship. It should be championship performance determining it. It opens up a route to more games but also having a high bar to progressing in the competition. When eliminated teams have to avoid relegation.

How to incorporate provincials into that without things getting very complicated is the problem."
The league being the criteria for championship is fairer than lopsided provincials, surely? Look at Armaghs possible route compared to Cork and Kerry, yet they both arrive at the same point, assuming Armagh make final in ulster.

Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 47 - 01/05/2026 07:01:57    2670100

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I've a big issue with the league being the qualifying criteria for the championship. It should be championship performance determining it. It opens up a route to more games but also having a high bar to progressing in the competition. When eliminated teams have to avoid relegation.

How to incorporate provincials into that without things getting very complicated is the problem."
Something like this could work:

We have 16 teams in the championship. Go back to 4 groups of 4.

Group winners - Home quarter final
Group runners up - away quarter final
Third place - summer over and Sam Maguire next year
Fourt place relegated

This leaves 12 teams in the Sam Maguire cup for next year with 4 places to be filled - it gets filled in the following order:

1. Prior season tailteann cup winner
2. Provincial champions
3. League placing

In the unlikely event of all 4 provincial champions being outside the already qualified teams the 2 bottom ranked provincial winners would need to play off for a place.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 491 - 01/05/2026 10:16:03    2670113

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Replying To Expertinall:  "The league being the criteria for championship is fairer than lopsided provincials, surely? Look at Armaghs possible route compared to Cork and Kerry, yet they both arrive at the same point, assuming Armagh make final in ulster."
The league happens before the provincial championships. If the championship is the main part of the season the league is therefore the warm up event or pre season if you like.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 01/05/2026 10:16:14    2670114

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Replying To Expertinall:  "The league being the criteria for championship is fairer than lopsided provincials, surely? Look at Armaghs possible route compared to Cork and Kerry, yet they both arrive at the same point, assuming Armagh make final in ulster."
The All Ireland championship itself should be fair and be the qualification pathway.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4656 - 01/05/2026 11:06:36    2670142

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Replying To brianb:  "Something like this could work:

We have 16 teams in the championship. Go back to 4 groups of 4.

Group winners - Home quarter final
Group runners up - away quarter final
Third place - summer over and Sam Maguire next year
Fourt place relegated

This leaves 12 teams in the Sam Maguire cup for next year with 4 places to be filled - it gets filled in the following order:

1. Prior season tailteann cup winner
2. Provincial champions
3. League placing

In the unlikely event of all 4 provincial champions being outside the already qualified teams the 2 bottom ranked provincial winners would need to play off for a place."
That would be a good system.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4656 - 01/05/2026 11:07:59    2670143

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Nah, not for me im afraid. You are downgrading a decent competition there. It deserves respect in its own right.
Anyway, I think we are going to have 2 16s for the foreseeable future. The only debate is the format they play in."
If Division 3 and 4 counties are happy with the current setup, that's perfectly fine!

If some were in favour of bringing back a second chance to make the All Ireland series, would like to see how a vote for the status quo versus bringing back the qualifiers over 2 knockout rounds would go.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9699 - 01/05/2026 12:36:56    2670160

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Replying To legendzxix:  "If Division 3 and 4 counties are happy with the current setup, that's perfectly fine!

If some were in favour of bringing back a second chance to make the All Ireland series, would like to see how a vote for the status quo versus bringing back the qualifiers over 2 knockout rounds would go."
Some counties ( fans and county boards mainly, players and coaches tend to know their standing and want to compete) may see themselves as better than they actually are. The idea of being classified as tier 2 simply doesnt sit with their ego at all. That doesnt mean that they should be humoured or accommodated in any way.
If we have 4 league divisions representing 4 different standards of football then it is totally illogical to assume that 1 championship will suffice.
An avenue to Sam exists through the provincial championships if you play well enough. There is resistance here to that avenue even.
I say seed the provincial championship draws. Then seed the provincial winners in Sam and let the other 12 positions be decided by league position. If you can't qualify by league position or by winning your province you belong in the Tailteann. There is no shame in that. Its a great competition in its own right.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 01/05/2026 14:04:09    2670194

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Provincial championships should be able to stand on their own feet at the end of the day. All Ireland 4 groups of 5 and Tailteann 2 groups of 6 would be balanced enough.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9699 - 01/05/2026 14:58:26    2670210

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The All Ireland championship itself should be fair and be the qualification pathway."
Yeah, that's what I'd think too. Provincial councils see it differently,and a few counties too.

Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 47 - 01/05/2026 15:04:44    2670211

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Some counties ( fans and county boards mainly, players and coaches tend to know their standing and want to compete) may see themselves as better than they actually are. The idea of being classified as tier 2 simply doesnt sit with their ego at all. That doesnt mean that they should be humoured or accommodated in any way.
If we have 4 league divisions representing 4 different standards of football then it is totally illogical to assume that 1 championship will suffice.
An avenue to Sam exists through the provincial championships if you play well enough. There is resistance here to that avenue even.
I say seed the provincial championship draws. Then seed the provincial winners in Sam and let the other 12 positions be decided by league position. If you can't qualify by league position or by winning your province you belong in the Tailteann. There is no shame in that. Its a great competition in its own right."
How are you proposing the provincials are seeded?

Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 47 - 01/05/2026 15:11:07    2670215

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Provincial championships should be able to stand on their own feet at the end of the day. All Ireland 4 groups of 5 and Tailteann 2 groups of 6 would be balanced enough."
You are going to have to show your full hand on this. Where exactly do you see the provincial championships sitting in the calender if its a stand alone competition?
It seems to me that you are putting up a strawman argument. " it should be able to stand on its own two feet" what do you mean by that and where do you see it sitting in the season if it was to" stand on its own two feet"?
See i think you know full well that it becomes a secondary competition once the link to Sam is broken. You know that it gets pushed to before the league if championship ranking is decided by league position only. You know that there is no way that counties will play it in the middle of the championship proper and there is no way they will tolerate the gap between the end of league and start of championship proper if it stays in its current slot and isnt linked to the championship proper.
You know all this and you dont care so you put forward this strawman argument to justify your point of view. Most counties will never win Sam. You know this too. They may never win a provincial championship but they have a better chance in that than Sam. You want to diminish that achievement if they ever succesd. Only 7 counties have won Sam since 2000. Your county is one of the most successful in that era so maybe you dont understand what you are proposing or maybe you dont care. If you break the link between the provincial championships and the All Ireland series and only use league position you demote the provincial championship standing and promote the league in its place. That is binning 140 years of our tradition. I am totally against doing that.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 310 - 01/05/2026 15:22:34    2670223

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