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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well Sylvester, I am 73 and if I was to get incensed by what other pundits say I would have dropped all contact with Gaelic Games decades ago. Why are you so easily incensed because somebody disagrees with you. Anyway if all the throws you mention were blown if would make little or no material difference to the result. When a team scores thirty times to their opponents seventeen then I am sure you will agree they were worthy winners. Now we have people putting a lot of emphasis on one misapplication of the rules but there is a rule that if you drop the hurley and then handpass it, it is automatically a free. TJ, and yes he is only one of many, did it in the build up to KKs second goal last year and I am told, though I did not bother playing it back, as I do not believe in nit picking when a game is over-win or lose-that WW took ten steps , with the ball in his hand, in the build up to the second goal. KK could easily have won the game last year and would have benefitted from those refereeing oversights, but best of luck to them if they had. I could also remind you that a persistent fouling rule came in years ago. It has literally never been applied to players outside the Full Back line.
As regards bending the rules every team do it. As far back as the late seventies Christy Ring was coaching Cork Players to carry the ball in their hand further, as Leinster Referees tended to be more Lax in relation to that rule. Fact is Sylvester it is only a game- in other words a bit of fun, and in games the playful things will get away with what they can and always have.
Finally, is it just possible that you are suffering from a condition diagnosed by Anthony Daly, namely the '**** off back to Clare Syndrome'. The gallant Ant reckoned that when his side won their first All Ireland they got all the usual plaudits, congratulations, 'great for the game' bullshit and all that, but when they they won the second, all 'the real Hurling' counties, just wished they had known their place, after winning one, and then '****** off back back to Banner land. Can you imaging how these people feel when a little hurling county, with about one fifth the hurling population of Cork shatters most of the records. Remember when KK had a few back off in '73, 2010 and'13 they fell in their backsides. This LK in three out out of the last four years have withstood massive injury crises and yet prevailed. Some team"
You're getting confused. I'm not against Limerick, I'm against the handpass rule as currently enforced by referees. It's ruining the game IMO. What triggered my comment was the foreveryoung came on here and made a statement that there was no illegal Hand pass in that game. That's just not true. If he had not made that statement then I would have said nothing. I actually went through the game and if you saw all the illegal hand passes you would be astonished. I did not say that Limerick didn't deserve to win. Have a re-read of my post. BTW Annoyed would have been a better description of my reaction.

Sylvester (Kilkenny) - Posts: 6 - 30/07/2023 12:11:42    2497679

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I'd say I saw nearly every under 20 game, either being there for the Dublin ones, or on streams. Drennan is much more than a freetaker and had you been paying attention last Sunday you'd have seen that better judges than myself and yourself had him in at no 26 on the day."
I didn't say he was no good. I said he was a good prospect. But he's not the starting Senior intercounty hurler he was hyped up to be during the League. He's not because if he was he would've started the big games for Kilkenny. As you said yourself better judges than myself and yourself had him at no.26.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13522 - 30/07/2023 12:15:33    2497680

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "A lot of counties are quick to pick out Limerick and talk about the amount of hand passing and how it's ruining the game. One thing we also do is stick pass a lot where the ball is pinged chest height between players from Hurley to hand. This is high risk stuff requiring ridiculous levels of accuracy, confidence, skill and touch and no other team comes close. Where KK are hitting grass, Limerick are hitting to hand. What is easier or more skilful when coming out of a packed defence, clearing your lines with a booming clearance or getting your head up and pinging a pass to a person.

Limerick also mix it up they go direct into the full forward line constantly, the only difference is they only hit in if it's on, it's rarely a hit and hope.
Also this is Limericks style, their method of play that they have worked on, we love it and the players love it, other counties are free to play the game whatever way they choose and rather than complain about the direction of the game just come up with a method of play and tactics that's suitable to your squad of players. I hear the likes of Bubbles complain about the game or the almost pompous air of "I'm a traditionalist" from others but Bubbles he had played ina team like Limerick he could have been a superstar with the service he would have received."
He was a superstar anyway. He won Munster and AI medals at u21 and Senior.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13522 - 30/07/2023 12:20:32    2497682

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well Sylvester, I am 73 and if I was to get incensed by what other pundits say I would have dropped all contact with Gaelic Games decades ago. Why are you so easily incensed because somebody disagrees with you. Anyway if all the throws you mention were blown if would make little or no material difference to the result. When a team scores thirty times to their opponents seventeen then I am sure you will agree they were worthy winners. Now we have people putting a lot of emphasis on one misapplication of the rules but there is a rule that if you drop the hurley and then handpass it, it is automatically a free. TJ, and yes he is only one of many, did it in the build up to KKs second goal last year and I am told, though I did not bother playing it back, as I do not believe in nit picking when a game is over-win or lose-that WW took ten steps , with the ball in his hand, in the build up to the second goal. KK could easily have won the game last year and would have benefitted from those refereeing oversights, but best of luck to them if they had. I could also remind you that a persistent fouling rule came in years ago. It has literally never been applied to players outside the Full Back line.
As regards bending the rules every team do it. As far back as the late seventies Christy Ring was coaching Cork Players to carry the ball in their hand further, as Leinster Referees tended to be more Lax in relation to that rule. Fact is Sylvester it is only a game- in other words a bit of fun, and in games the playful things will get away with what they can and always have.
Finally, is it just possible that you are suffering from a condition diagnosed by Anthony Daly, namely the '**** off back to Clare Syndrome'. The gallant Ant reckoned that when his side won their first All Ireland they got all the usual plaudits, congratulations, 'great for the game' bullshit and all that, but when they they won the second, all 'the real Hurling' counties, just wished they had known their place, after winning one, and then '****** off back back to Banner land. Can you imaging how these people feel when a little hurling county, with about one fifth the hurling population of Cork shatters most of the records. Remember when KK had a few back off in '73, 2010 and'13 they fell in their backsides. This LK in three out out of the last four years have withstood massive injury crises and yet prevailed. Some team"
Every team has injury's. You keep bringing up Lk injuries in the all Ireland but KK were missing both half backs. BlanchField and Carey.. As Brian Cody says. the reason why a team doesn't win is because they were beaten by a better team.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 156 - 30/07/2023 14:14:17    2497697

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Replying To Viking66:  "He was a superstar anyway. He won Munster and AI medals at u21 and Senior."
Never came close to reaching what he should have imo.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 30/07/2023 15:28:26    2497709

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Went to the football final today. My god we are blessed to have hurling. Anyone that doesn't appreciate how good hurling is as a sport/spectacle right now hasn't a clue.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 30/07/2023 20:14:27    2497826

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Replying To daveboy:  "Went to the football final today. My god we are blessed to have hurling. Anyone that doesn't appreciate how good hurling is as a sport/spectacle right now hasn't a clue."
Two completely different sports. I don't understand why people compare them. For me, we had two great finals. Any game where there is little to no talk about the ref afterwards is usually a sign that the ref had a great game. The referees in both finals this year were excellent. We also had no diving, whinging, complaining by any Limk, KK, Dublin or Kerry players. They all took the belts, gave the belts, got up and got on with it.

Two great finals imho. Stop comparing two very different sports, but two great sports on their own respective merits. Comparison, they say, is the thief of joy!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2081 - 31/07/2023 00:05:28    2497902

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Clare v Tipp Cusack park
Cork v Tipp PUC
Limerick v Clare GG
Tipp v Limerick Thurles
Westmeath v Wexford Wexford
Kilkenny v Wexford Nolan Park
Limerick v Cork GG
Dublin v Galway CP
Limerick v Clare (Munster Final) GG
Kilkenny v Galway (Leinster Final) CP
Kilkenny v Clare CP
Limerick v Kilkenny CP

12 matches. All outstanding. The game of hurling has never been better. Focus on the positives.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 31/07/2023 00:30:50    2497904

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Replying To daveboy:  "Went to the football final today. My god we are blessed to have hurling. Anyone that doesn't appreciate how good hurling is as a sport/spectacle right now hasn't a clue."
I Disagree. We are blessed with hurling. Todays game was great and entertaining.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 156 - 31/07/2023 02:05:57    2497908

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Two completely different sports. I don't understand why people compare them. For me, we had two great finals. Any game where there is little to no talk about the ref afterwards is usually a sign that the ref had a great game. The referees in both finals this year were excellent. We also had no diving, whinging, complaining by any Limk, KK, Dublin or Kerry players. They all took the belts, gave the belts, got up and got on with it.

Two great finals imho. Stop comparing two very different sports, but two great sports on their own respective merits. Comparison, they say, is the thief of joy!"
They are completely different absolutely. My point is that anyone that cribs about small issues in hurling to the extent that the game is ruined has no credibility on the game for me. Hurling right now is an incredible spectacle laced with drama, elite skill level and full of bravery self sacrifice and unity of group. Its the essence of great sport. I'm not putting football down but for me it's just not even close as a spectacle that hurling is. That's not footballs fault that's just the way it is.

Enjoy hurling for what it is. An absolute gift.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 31/07/2023 10:55:04    2497949

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Replying To daveboy:  "They are completely different absolutely. My point is that anyone that cribs about small issues in hurling to the extent that the game is ruined has no credibility on the game for me. Hurling right now is an incredible spectacle laced with drama, elite skill level and full of bravery self sacrifice and unity of group. Its the essence of great sport. I'm not putting football down but for me it's just not even close as a spectacle that hurling is. That's not footballs fault that's just the way it is.

Enjoy hurling for what it is. An absolute gift."
posted this on another topic awhile back and many thought it a good idea..Let Leinster and Munster return to the good old days BUT on a round robin format. Set up the JMCD, apparently its a great tournament, so let the counties who were not being challenged sufficiently or getting enough games go into that - again on a round robin. The bottom team in Munster and Leinster at thw end of the "first" run of championships get relegated to the Joe McDonagh along with the teams who currently have no provincial championship amd that is Galway, Antrim, Down, Derry, all go in initially too and any other team that does not poor recent championsip record to play in their provincial championship - possibly, Kerry, Carlow even my own Offaly for example if they opt to drop out of Leinster proper etc. etc. etc.

Leinster and Munster championships play off then in a round robin format, for example, Kilkenny and Cork win their provincial finals, they go straight to AI semi finals. Say Galway wins the JMD, They are titled as JMD and Connaught Champions, if say Antrim or Down win it, they are JMCD and Ulster Champions by default. If a Leinster or Munster team win it (Joe McDonagh) they are simply JMC champions only, as they have provinces with an active senior hurling championships, they join Cork and Kilkenny in semi final - The JMD runner up, joins a 3 way play off against the 2 beat provincial finalists - open draw (them 3) the winners of that 3 way play off go in as last AI semi finalist. Usual rules apply, you cannot play a team you played in the current championships again BEFORE the AI final. Other than that the semi final could be a draw either to see who plays the 2 provincial champions. The reward for winning your province or JMcD is AI semi final place, 3 runners up have extra games as a result of not qualifying as champions of their respective province/JMcD.

The bottom teams in both Leinster and Munster round robins each year, drop down to the JMCD the following year, it shouldnt matter if its Cork or Tipp in Munster or Kilkenny or Wexford or Dublin in Leinster..

I know people will pick holes in the above - but its something I think might work, might need to be tweeked but it would give Leinster back its own provincial championship identity, and bring Munster to a par with teams having to drop out of it too if they finish bottom in Munster..no doubt someone else has a version of above mentioned already...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1037 - 31/07/2023 13:39:02    2498033

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Replying To daveboy:  "They are completely different absolutely. My point is that anyone that cribs about small issues in hurling to the extent that the game is ruined has no credibility on the game for me. Hurling right now is an incredible spectacle laced with drama, elite skill level and full of bravery self sacrifice and unity of group. Its the essence of great sport. I'm not putting football down but for me it's just not even close as a spectacle that hurling is. That's not footballs fault that's just the way it is.

Enjoy hurling for what it is. An absolute gift."
I get you now, Dave. Yes, if some people are complaining about small issues in hurling then woe betide them. The game today is better than any version from any era. I read recently in an interview with Bernie Hartigan of the 1973 winning team where he asks the question: why didn't we hurl like that in our day? I think a lot of past players may feel like that. Essentially, the hurlers of today aren't doing anything differently than players in the past, just that they're doing the same things but with far more precision, strength, speed, and accuracy!

Gaelic football for me is also a great product, especially when compared to the association game or even our gridiron here. But if given a free ticket to any sporting game to watch, I'd definitely choose hurling, then rugby, and after that, ice-hockey.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2081 - 31/07/2023 13:48:29    2498038

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I get you now, Dave. Yes, if some people are complaining about small issues in hurling then woe betide them. The game today is better than any version from any era. I read recently in an interview with Bernie Hartigan of the 1973 winning team where he asks the question: why didn't we hurl like that in our day? I think a lot of past players may feel like that. Essentially, the hurlers of today aren't doing anything differently than players in the past, just that they're doing the same things but with far more precision, strength, speed, and accuracy!

Gaelic football for me is also a great product, especially when compared to the association game or even our gridiron here. But if given a free ticket to any sporting game to watch, I'd definitely choose hurling, then rugby, and after that, ice-hockey."
A lot of the difference in hurling is down to the equipment. I have a 70s hurl here and there's no way anyone using it would be able to do the same things as modern players, Sliothar has also changed and wet days used to mean soggy lumps!

Same with boots and other gear, and of course the training and nutrition. If Jesses Owens had all of those he'd be up there with Usain Bolt. Same with Christy Ring or the Rackards v the modern players.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3004 - 31/07/2023 14:21:16    2498051

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I get you now, Dave. Yes, if some people are complaining about small issues in hurling then woe betide them. The game today is better than any version from any era. I read recently in an interview with Bernie Hartigan of the 1973 winning team where he asks the question: why didn't we hurl like that in our day? I think a lot of past players may feel like that. Essentially, the hurlers of today aren't doing anything differently than players in the past, just that they're doing the same things but with far more precision, strength, speed, and accuracy!

Gaelic football for me is also a great product, especially when compared to the association game or even our gridiron here. But if given a free ticket to any sporting game to watch, I'd definitely choose hurling, then rugby, and after that, ice-hockey."
I agree, I do tour guiding and Gaelic games really excite tourists, its the epic nature of both, invasive, aerobic, strenght, skill, precision, breathtaking.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4937 - 31/07/2023 14:31:24    2498057

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Replying To Newyorkkat:  "Every team has injury's. You keep bringing up Lk injuries in the all Ireland but KK were missing both half backs. BlanchField and Carey.. As Brian Cody says. the reason why a team doesn't win is because they were beaten by a better team."
Well you need only look at the contributions made by Lynch against Galway and especially in the Final to realise he was no ordinary injury loss and Peter Casey also gave a huge display last Sunday. Most Limerick Followers would also say that Finn and Hannon are probably the two best Limerick Defenders of the past sixty years. I agree Blanchfield and Carey are good players for KK but hardly as vital to KK interest as the other boys are to Limerick.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4458 - 31/07/2023 17:44:50    2498181

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I get you now, Dave. Yes, if some people are complaining about small issues in hurling then woe betide them. The game today is better than any version from any era. I read recently in an interview with Bernie Hartigan of the 1973 winning team where he asks the question: why didn't we hurl like that in our day? I think a lot of past players may feel like that. Essentially, the hurlers of today aren't doing anything differently than players in the past, just that they're doing the same things but with far more precision, strength, speed, and accuracy!

Gaelic football for me is also a great product, especially when compared to the association game or even our gridiron here. But if given a free ticket to any sporting game to watch, I'd definitely choose hurling, then rugby, and after that, ice-hockey."
Google Cork V Limerick hurling replay 1983..only a,few wearing helmets, fast, frantic and furious, skill incredible for such high tempo..Cork won 1-14 to 1-12 (no 1-32 or 4-29s in those days with the exception f the 1982/3 Munster finals which were deemed one offs back then ide say)absolutely non comparable to today's game...Danny Fitzgerald of Limerick scored a point from far out and the great Michael OHehir said that it was possible because of the new "lighter" ball..that was 40 years ago..what would he call the piece of light plastic almost they play with today..how anyone thinks hurling is better skill wise now amazes me, shooting is better probably but more space and more time now, frees are easily won now..go look at that game or Kilkenny V Wexford that year and come back and say what version of hurling is better and more enjoyable..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1037 - 31/07/2023 18:15:00    2498192

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "Google Cork V Limerick hurling replay 1983..only a,few wearing helmets, fast, frantic and furious, skill incredible for such high tempo..Cork won 1-14 to 1-12 (no 1-32 or 4-29s in those days with the exception f the 1982/3 Munster finals which were deemed one offs back then ide say)absolutely non comparable to today's game...Danny Fitzgerald of Limerick scored a point from far out and the great Michael OHehir said that it was possible because of the new "lighter" ball..that was 40 years ago..what would he call the piece of light plastic almost they play with today..how anyone thinks hurling is better skill wise now amazes me, shooting is better probably but more space and more time now, frees are easily won now..go look at that game or Kilkenny V Wexford that year and come back and say what version of hurling is better and more enjoyable.."
100% hurling is better today. Ask anyone that ever played the game at inter county level over the last 50 years. Ive spoken to dozens and they all say what we have now is far better than ever before. And I've spoken to AI winners from the 70s 80s 90s and 00s about this very topic.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 01/08/2023 11:38:14    2498312

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Replying To daveboy:  "100% hurling is better today. Ask anyone that ever played the game at inter county level over the last 50 years. Ive spoken to dozens and they all say what we have now is far better than ever before. And I've spoken to AI winners from the 70s 80s 90s and 00s about this very topic."
better today (ironic coming from a Limerick man after his county wins 4 in a row and thats not being smart as I support Limerick)..of course some of the players who played in the 70s and 80s (not all) will say its better now, the lads back in the 70s and 80s few wore helmets and frees and fouls were harder won, you litterally had to be flattened to get the chance of a free...look back on those games I mentioned and others, just because 30 points or higher wasnt scored doesnt mean the games were less skillful, poinnts are scored now often un marked, some of the points scored in the games in 70s and 80s were often from strikes where players were being blocked down or from scrambles...now its all almost playstation like where the ball is worked out methodically to a certain postion on the pitch and then struck...each to their own, all I will say is some of the older games stick in memory, someone asked me what was the score in last years 2022 All Ireland a few weeks back and I had to look it up...too many games now too piled one on top of the other, many forget Kilkenny beat Clare in last 2 All Ireland semi finals, there is no direct routes to follow anymore, teams losing upto two games can still potentially win the All Ireland...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1037 - 01/08/2023 12:32:42    2498324

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Replying To daveboy:  "100% hurling is better today. Ask anyone that ever played the game at inter county level over the last 50 years. Ive spoken to dozens and they all say what we have now is far better than ever before. And I've spoken to AI winners from the 70s 80s 90s and 00s about this very topic."
Yes, hurling is certainly better today but I think it could be even better with a small few adjustments. The handpass/throw is still an issue, and is almost impossible for referees to deal with consistently and fairly. This is not a dig at Limerick who are already perfecting the one-handed hurley pass and will still be the best team even if the handpass is outlawed. Besides, lots of other teams are using a suspect handpass. Another aspect of the game that needs attention is the amount of unsightly "rucks" that develop in every game, with all players intent on getting the ball into the hand. This occurs regularly at the throw-in, often with up to 12-16 players involved, but could be reduced if all players other than the four midfielders had to remain inside their "45" rather than the "65". Having said that, the speed of the game today is unbelievable, again with Limerick leading the way. We are privileged to be able to watch Lynch, Hannon, O'Donovan, Gillane, Peter Casey etc operating at the top of their game and executing all the skills of hurling, even in pressurised situations.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 581 - 01/08/2023 12:35:05    2498328

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Have Clare finished celebrating the 'We beat Limerick in the Roun Robin Championship' All Ireland?

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 702 - 01/08/2023 12:54:46    2498335

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